DMJ

I'd be surprised to hear that there's a counter-argument to that. Austin is definitely the "dirtiest" of the top level guys that Vince has pushed - not just Hogan and The Rock, but Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Cena, Angle, Lesnar, Luger, Sid, Orton and Batista's original babyface pushes...all highly marketable "clean" presentations that were never about being an everyman and way more about being a Superstar with an uppercase S (Hart might be arguable). Warrior, Taker, and Savage were more cartoonish and "louder" personalities than Bryan, Punk, and Jeff Hardy (and we could, in 2015, be adding Ambrose to the list of very over guys that have an "earthy"/punk/redneck character).

On the Sting thing, I know its hokey as all shit, but couldn't they have run some segments/angles where there was (a) no Sting, but "technicality difficulties" that would lead one to believe Sting was the culprit or ( impostor/fake Stings that are shown to be fake. Y'know, "mind games." I just think, thematically, these are things that would keep the storyline going and be within Sting's character, but don't require Steve Borden to be anywhere near a WWE show.

Halloween Havoc 91'. I've seen HH91' get called one of the worst shows ever, probably due to the hokeyness of Chamber of Horrors match and Simmons/Luger obviously not living up to what WCW/NWA fans may have expected from a World Title main event match compared to what they got with Flair, but as a kid, this show was mind-blowing. The midcard of this show also includes some of the worst gimmicks of its time (Oz, The Patriots, Van Hammer). Still, even as a time capsule to go back and watch, this one puts a smile on my face from beginning to end.

I went to the show last night, had a good (albeit expensive) time. Some notes from the live perspective... * Not sure if they announced it as a legit sellout, but the Q was definitely packed pretty well. A few years back, the WWE set their personal best ticket sales in Cleveland for a RAW episode featuring The Rock and I'm not sure it was THAT crowded last night, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close. All the lower sections and middle sections were full, with even the upper upper deck probably 80% filled. As far as I know, no papering either. Cleveland loves it some WWE. * Obviously, hometown hero Dolph Ziggler was very over. Great way to kickoff the show and it was cool to see him win the IC title in "his city." * A fight broke out in the crowd during Swagger/Rusev that distracted a fair number of people. Still, I think everyone bit that initial Accolade and when Swagger reversed it, people were genuinely shocked. * Everyone was surprised that Cena/Rollins went on early. This, in my opinion, was a mistake as the crowd was a bit burnt out for Ambrose/Wyatt. In Cleveland, Cena is still very over - aside from the initial Cena boos for his entrance, you could really tell that the crowd was pretty much 80% behind him by the end. Throw in Reigns showing up and it seems like that would've been a much more suitable way to cap off the night. * Half the crowd seemed to clear out to get food or use the bathroom after Cena/Rollins - but I'm not sure its because AJ/Nikki was a "bathroom break." Its just that, after Cena/Rollins, there was a feeling that this was "intermission." In fact, I wish I had waited and had my cigarette during Ryback/Kane instead, which was probably the deadest match of the night. Ryback got a decent pop, but nothing to write home about. * The main event was really fun, but it took time to wake up the crowd a little bit. Ambrose was very over. Bray Wyatt's entrance is AWESOME in person - comparable to what its like when the Undertaker shows up. With everyone holding out their phone and the non-dynamic theme song, it is just a surreal couple of minutes when you are there after all the heavy metal and pyro and cannon shots that typically announce a wrestler's arrival. The only complaints I heard were from people who wanted Ambrose to use the even-bigger ladders that were near the stage. Obviously, the ending was the ending, but overall, I think people were genuinely pleased with the show. As always, the funnest part of a WWE show might be leaving a WWE show - hearing the reactions of everyone and talking to strangers about what could happen next is always fun. Again, I think the crowd left overall happy. I didn't hear anyone call it a shitty show, just that it may have been better to end with Cena/Rollins, which I agree would've made more sense.

Personally, I don't have as much issue with Cena appearing on TV or not appearing - what bothers me is that he WRESTLES on TV mere days after being kayfabe injured or, in the case of SummerSlam, being destroyed. I get it - you have to keep him on the house show circuit because you can't disappoint the people buying the seats to see Cena wrestle - but the guy is incredibly overexposed on RAW when he participates in 40+ matches a year on TV. What I would've done, after SummerSlam or Extreme Rules (had Cena lost that match as most agree he should have), would be to have Cena come out and give a heartfelt promo about not being sure if he can go on anymore, that he tried his best and now he has to regroup, heal, and that he'll be on RAW in two weeks to announce his next step. RAW can survive 1 week without him, especially with the music videos and montages they could make for him (think "Tell Me A Lie" on steroids). Then, two weeks later, Cena comes out and is ABOUT to make his announcement, but gets interrupted by someone - Authority, Heyman, Rusev, who cares. Cena is almost goaded into fighting, but does not (which draws boos from the crowd). The next week (he has now not wrestled for 4 weeks), he comes out and says that he has been home thinking about how he backed down from a fight and that that is NOT who John Cena is. So, he challenges the heel for a match - but now the heel backs down. At the next PPV, it is hyped that Cena will be back to challenge the heel. At the PPV, he is beaten down through nefarious means. At this point, we've gone 5 weeks without Cena wrestling on TV, but you've really only kept him off-screen for 1 week. What's terrible is that the only time the WWE gives Cena a break is when he is legitimately injured with the potential of being out for multiple MONTHS instead of utilizing storylines to give him a much-deserved break from in-ring involvement for what would amount to be maybe 4-5 weeks (and, again, only TV matches - he could still do house shows without a majority of the fans being the wiser).

I'd heard that Flair/Hogan didn't draw on tour...but, then, in 94', IIRC, they do a big number for their first PPV match and have the most watched Clash in years (if not ever?). I don't know or have time now to look at the figures, but it seems to me that there has to be some other explanation for why those house shows did poor numbers and that, even if they DID do poor numbers, Hogan/Flair would've drawn in 92' just as well as it did in 94' (if not better) on PPV. Something doesn't make sense to me about that. The name CM Punk comes to mind. As part of SES, he had a natural feud with HBK he could've worked. Later, they also left money on the table by not really doing anything with his "walk out" angle in 2011 - the kind of thing that, I'd argue, could have been built up like a Mad Men or Breaking Bad storyline where you may not get the pay-off next week or the week after, but 5 weeks later, you have some fans who have been waiting with baited breath since he left and a growing number of new-ish fans who might have missed Punk's pipebomb and his walk-out at MITB, but then, thanks to the buzz, played catch-up, and now were tuning in. One could also call this the "Weezer Green Album" phenomenon where Pinkerton tanked, but years later, word of mouth made their return a bigger deal than even their debut. I'm not even a huge CM Punk fan, but it just seems like those two would-be storylines would've been done just as good ratings as anything else the company did during non-Mania season.

Slammy Awards 1994 on the Network (its just an episode of Mania). A few thoughts - 1) This Monday, I'd love the show to kick-off with a musical number the way Todd Pettengill used to do it. Those were so, so cheesy, but probably funnier than anything the writers have done in years. 2) Can't wait till the Network starts featuring more of the B-shows of the 80s and 90s. 3) Why didn't they upload all the other Slammy Award specials? EDIT - Also, they kept some of the advertisements from the sponsors in - which is excellent. The commercials for the Sega games and Magic Works toys are a real blast from the past.

I don't remember many of the details around it (I'm sure I could look it up, but feel lazy) - didn't Arn Anderson beat Hogan on an episode of Nitro at some point? (I'd also put the Luger title win over Hogan on Nitro in the build-up to Road Wild, I think, in 97', as a shocker and a bit of an upset considering Hogan had been champ for a good while by that point and didn't seem like he'd be dropping it - though, he did win it back days later if I remember correctly)

I'm one of those fans who left sometime after WrestleMania 16. It wasn't that it was offensive as much as that the entire industry had gone from something "outsider" and "niche" to the exact things I never wanted to be associated with - Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit entrance music, outright homophobia, sex-for-the-sake-of-sex (compared to, say, characters like Sensational Sherri and Elizabeth or even the little-bit-more-subtle Sunny in 96'). Not to mention that this is around when Austin got injured, WCW had been destroyed, and most of my favorites from childhood - Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, even Hogan - were retired or not on TV yet. Undertaker, another childhood favorite, was a Biker. At my school, wrestling had peaked in popularity around 99', so, it's not necessarily that I loathed that "the popular kids" were now getting in on "my thing." It was more that, by 2000, the popular kids had moved on because it was a fad to them. I moved on because wrestling had morphed into repetitive, ultraviolent nonsense with absolutely no underlying morality.

While I don't think he's a Top 10 in-ring guy, I do think some of his offense looks good (the crossbody, the chokeslam), so, on that point, I do think he has plenty of room to improve but isn't awful or anything. But whether you call it booking or producing, I don't think its "reductionist" to put the blame on booking. If he is going to be a special character, he shouldn't just be attacking faces and trading wins on PPV (I don't remember Taker doing that when he debuted). If he has no coherent motivations, the writers/producers need to help him develop them. For example, I'm one of those people that think he should've actually HELPED Ambrose beat Rollins - not to get a face pop, but to try to lure Ambrose into his camp. Similarly, I think the mindgames with Cena weren't actually hokey enough during the build to the match (and then got a little TOO hokey during their cage match). The feud with Jericho was completely meaningless. Bray Wyatt was exposed - on that point, I agree with you - but it was someone's decision to treat him like your average character instead of someone who could be a game-changer. That person dropped the ball in utilizing a talent and minimizing their flaws. Obviously Wyatt had at least a little "it" because he got good crowd responses (unfortunately, they were face pops). Still, it shows that the audience, initially, viewed the character as special.

Agreed. From what I read (and I could be way wrong), Nikki essentially cut a spirited promo about working harder than anyone ever gave her credit for and, despite all the trolls who have said she's just a pretty face that got lucky (reading between the lines here, but this whole thing seems to also be about who she may or may not have slept with to get to the top), she is now Divas Champion and she earned it. This got cheered. As it should've. Because it does kinda ring true. As far as I know, the Bellas work a crazy schedule and do tons of media appearances and, from what I've seen, Nikki has improved in a way that typically only comes with hard work. She may not come off as the kindest person alive on Total Divas, but the show doesn't make her look evil either (and, again, really just leaves you with the impression that being a Diva is a busy life, not all glitz and glamour). But she's supposed to be a heel and, whether or not the writers/producers acted upon it, had a really clear narrative direction her promo should've went in. She should be gloating about how she outsmarted AJ and the entire WWE Universe, how nobody gives her credit but she's actually the most talented and smartest WWE Diva ever. If she wanted to get extra "insider" heat, how about a line referencing how she has everything a girl could want - a sister who supports her, a man is the envy of every woman in the arena, and the Divas Championship. (Switch the word "sister" to father and you basically have a classic Steph promo) Not to mention that if Nikki were to go in an anti-Authority direction, it'd go against everything her character has done for the past 6 months (if not longer, I don't remember).

I'm actually in the process (somewhat, not sure if I'll actually go through with it) with writing a very comprehensive look at 2014. I do think that this year, with the Network, and the Batista/Punk/Bryan/Streak stories and the TV rights campaign being regarded by most industry insiders as a bit of a flop, is the most important year, both on-screen and off, since 2001, if not 96'-97', if not 84'. The amount of industry shake-ups between January and today is just incredible and much of it is not positive for the WWE. I don't think the "sky is falling" regarding the demise of the WWE, though. I think it is too profitable, too popular, and too big to sink...but I do think this year has, at the very least and in a weird way, put a spotlight on what things WOULD need to happen to possibly end the WWE, for example, if the Network subscriber base shrinks by 50% *and* ratings drop by another 50% *and* the next time TV rights come up, USA/NBC ain't interested *and* if the WWE fails to elevate anyone post-Cena or post-Lesnar *and* the US economy takes another major hit and it has a negative effect on house show gates and merch sales. Basically, all of these things (and more?) would have to happen which is pretty unlikely, but 2014 was the first year I think I saw (and maybe the WWE sees) that there is actually a set of dominoes that could (however unlikely) fall. (Not to mention the ridiculously overblown and meaningless reports about investors possibly buying out the WWE - something that could, if it were ever to happen [probably never, but maybe decades from now], put them in a similar position as WCW by making them just a "brand" under a parent company that would cut their losses much sooner than the McMahons would)

I'm glad Superstar Sleaze mentioned Seth Rollins because, while I'm not going to say he's the best heel in the business or anything, I *do* think that his turn worked well even though he almost should get more cheers because he wrestles a fan-friendly style (fancy moves), has the indy scene cred, and is regarded as fresh... But he turned his back on his best friend. He sold out. He took a shortcut. I think he's proof that you can still build heels based on simple premises, especially using the "chickenshit" route. I also think it helps when you take a heel and pair him up with a guy that's actually over as a face (Ambrose and Ziggler rather than Cena or Sheamus, who a portion of the audience vocally dislikes). If you put Lesnar against Cena, the crowd is going to be split...but against Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler, hell, even Mizdow or Ryder, Lesnar's bullying will get heat.

Maybe not the nicest to everyone, but I met Kevin Nash through a radio contest a few years ago and he was really cool and easy-going. Hilarious too. Bobby Eaton was my first thought, though, just based on how many books he's been mentioned specifically as the nicest guy in the business. His name always comes up, even in books or interviews where the subject almost has no reason to bring him up or are asking about him directly - they just do because they feel he deserves mention. To me, if you have guys going out of their way to say Bobby Eaton is a nice guy, he must be a really nice guy. For example, I think Foley mentions him in his 1st book apropos of nothing.

I feel like they worked more for Ryback when he was kind of doing the more Terminator-esque/1-dimensional act. He was decimating jobbers. He was saying all of 5 words. He was a bit of a "throwback" character. He screamed yesteryear and the airbrush design just added to that "It feels like 1991" vibe for me. As he's grown as a character, the airbrush thing seems less fitting to me, but personally, I wouldn't want him to return to that 1-dimensional thing because I actually like his promos for how crazy they are and while I do think he was "exposed" a bit early, you can't put the cat back in the bag so to speak.

According to various sites, Khali got released today/didn't have his contract renewed. Not a huge shocker here, but looking back at his career, what surprises me is just how long his run actually was. They got everything they could out of him AND THEN SOME, it seems to me.

I just saw this match for the first time and enjoyed it a good bit...until the ending. The way Buffer screws up the call (was he told to make the announcements or not?) is just mind-numbingly stupid. Did Bischoff think that new viewers would be so unfamiliar with disqualification/count-outs that they would believe the title WOULD change hand, thus it was necessary to have Buffer declare Flair the winner and new Champion, only to be corrected later on? Was it just a gaffe on Buffer's part? Also, why did Buffer announce that Hogan lost by DQ when he lost by count-out? Ugh...why, again, did they not just have Flair win the title back here?

^ I like this (in theory), but am wondering how you would have Ryback face Lesnar before Cena when Cena is the number one contender?

The fall of 2005 was an interesting time in the WWE. In the months after SummerSlam 2005, the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero paternity angle was long over, Hulk Hogan and Chris Jericho left the company, and Batista and John Cena's ascension to the top of the mountain was complete. As is typical for the WWE, September and October were relatively quiet months with fairly unremarkable pay-per-views. The waiting game until January's Road to WrestleMania had begun. And then Eddie Guerrero passed away in November in the midst of a friendship/rivalry storyline with real life buddy, Dave Batista. A couple months later, Batista, then-World Heavyweight Champion, suffered a tricep injury that led to him vacating the title (it was picked up by Kurt Angle soon after in a battle royale). My question is - how would WrestleMania 22 have looked had Eddie not passed? Had Batista not been injured? The show's actual main event, Cena vs. Triple H, seemed set-in-stone already as the two were purposely kept separate in the fall of 2005 (when Triple H returned from a bit of a hiatus IIRC), but what happens on the Blue Brand? Does Rey Mysterio still get the nod to capture the gold? Does Orton get that spot instead? What does Angle do? I'm curious to read fan theories as well as any other information people might remember from the tim about what direction the WWE might have been going.

I didn't see the battle royal, but to me, the division has actually, somehow, and most likely due wholly to the work of the trainers Vince and Triple H hired and put into position, become the best it has been in at least a decade. At Night of Champions and Hell in a Cell, Nikki Bella was fantastic. I wrote about this in my review elsewhere, but I don't care how much her matches are "choreographed/staged/scripted" - the fact is, if she rehearses just one good match a month and then has that match on PPV, I'm happy. Her match against Brie at Hell in a Cell was physical, structured simply and effectively, and made her look like a dominant heel. It had arguably more logic to it than the Ziggler/Cesaro match it followed and was more "personal" and engaging than the Tag Titles match that came after it. Brie has improved considerably as well, but as a scrappy babyface, I don't think she needs to do much but take bumps, sell, and have a few signature hope spots/offensive maneuvers. She's not fully there yet, but she's made a ton of progress. I'm more impressed by Nikki, but again, when you think of where both of them were a year ago, they have really come around in-ring. Alicia Fox has a great character, natural charisma, and has also made progress in-ring from where she started. Why she isn't challenging for the Divas Championship more is not clear to me. Considering Paige's age and that this is her rookie year, she's already achieved a lot and there is room for growth. Huge future for her. Not a Future Hall of Famer yet, but probably more well-rounded than Lita ever was. Emma is also a young rookie with lots of upside. The pieces haven't all fallen into place, but she's coming up to the main roster with considerably more experience and more natural athleticism than the models-turned-wrestlers that dominated the division for the past decade. AJ is the best "mic worker" of the whole bunch, but I wouldn't say she's the best wrestler. Others would disagree. She deserves to be holding the title, but those that put her "leaps and bounds" ahead of every other female talent are overrating her. Still, the fact that she didn't take her ball and go home with her husband and still works hard in the ring has only made me respect her more. Even if she leaves after her contract is up, AJ has only helped the division since returning. Elsewhere on the roster, you have a reliable hand in Natalya and another young (26), energetic talent in Naomi (Trinity on Total Divas). Not bad role players and the same could be said for Layla and Tamina, who probably won't last much longer but are serviceable, especially in non-wrestling/managerial roles. For example, having Layla take Emma or another NXT grad under her wing could be a fine angle as it plays to Layla's strength of typically being excellent in multi-person story lines like the LayCool stuff or being Low Ki/Kaval's mentor. ( I know they've done that a little with Summer Rae, but Layla would be better working with someone who actually has, y'know, personality.) With those pieces in place, plus Charlotte Flair in NXT, the WWE's Divas Division is actually one area where things actually make sense and wins/losses DO seem to count and matter. The "pecking order" is clear to regular viewers. The story lines have made sense. There are "issues" between the performers that lead to matches that lead to more matches. Can you say that about the IC Title or Tag Team Championships?

I forget where I read it, but the President of Netflix (or whatever) was asked about account sharing and piracy and said that he didn't regard it as a problem because the value of Netflix outweighed the desire to pirate their shows, like House of Cards, Arrested Development, etc. I think in the same interview he said that Netflix doesn't actively pursue "account sharers." I think the WWE has even less to worry about. I know a number of fans who downloaded the PPVs after they happened and watched them last year...but when the Network began, they got legit accounts and love the service and are more than happy to pay $10 a month. Those fans who are still pirating will pirate no matter what - the WWE needs to say "fuck em'" for now and, in a weird way, actually just ignore them and hope their fandom grows to the point that they don't want to risk missing the next show. Is it really THAT much easier to pirate from the Network than it was from PPV? To the point that this should even be on their priority list? I kinda find that hard to believe as, in my experience, the same folks I know who hadn't paid for a PPV in years, were the first ones to sign up. I know that I didn't even bother pirating (I just didn't watch PPVs) and the WWE is on track to take $120 from me this year after receiving maybe the same amount over the past 4 years combined.

* Not as down on this show as some. I thought it was an improvement from the last pay-per-view, but that was probably because the last one was pretty dull throughout, and had not a single match I'd find any reason to rewatch (including Cena/Brock and Sheamus/Cesaro). * The match of the night, if not the main, was arguably the Bellas one. I really found that to be hard-hitting and, though obviously choreographed and planned out, was still really nicely executed. As actresses, the Bellas still have a long way to improve, but in-ring, Nikki Bella really turned a corner over the past few months, especially when it comes to PPV "big" matches. As I don't actively watch much RAW, I could care less if she (or really any diva) rehearses one match a month for PPV, wrestles that one match well, and then stinks up the joint 29 other nights out of 30. That seems like what we got here and it was an engaging, believable, physical 8-10 minutes. * I would've loved Rollins/Ambrose a ton more without the first table spot. It just wasn't the right way to start the match. When the actual match began, I thought we got to see loads of nice spots and intensity. Had that match started in the cage, gone through the same motions, and then maybe had an additional 10 minutes of back-and-forth, I think I wouldn't have minded the Wyatt run-in so much. It still would've been anti-climactic, but at least it would've felt like Wyatt had put an end to an epic battle where no man was going to come out alive. The way it came off, it just wasn't a MOTY candidate. I'd still probably say it was the best and most exciting bout of the evening, but much of that has to do with my personal interest and the crowd's interest in these three characters. * Ziggler/Cesaro was decent, but I don't get the "sweep" ending. I think the time I've spent on this forum has also begun to make me rethink just how great I thought Ziggler was over the past 4-5 years. I still think he is incredibly skilled, but some road agent needs to help him iron out the overselling and help him generate some more impressive hope spots. * Rusev/Show was pretty damn good. Not as great as Bossman/Vader or anything, but when's the last time you saw Big Show bust out as good a submission hold as he did here? Also, loved how Rusev looked dominant, but that it also made sense as he, from the very start, obviously had a strategy (get Show on the mat by attacking the legs) and then relied on that strategy the whole time. THAT is how wrestling maneuvers can be sequenced logically to make it completely conceivable that a 7'0 300 pound guy will lose to a considerably smaller opponent. Also, Rusev suplexed the motherfucker and I didn't expect that at all. Overall, not a 5-star classic, but I don't know if there was a single DUD on the show, which I think keeps it at average or above. I found the tag match to be the lowpoint of the show, but others have called it one of the highs. To each their own, but unless you really needed that last 5 minutes to be spectactular, I'm not sure if the other 2 hours and 50 minutes were bad enough to warrant anything more hateful than a "meh, it was okay." The chief complaint is the repetitiveness of the programs, which is totally valid, but my recommendation is, skip RAWs and SDs like I do and you'll be less tired of some of these performers.

My band is playing tonight, so I won't see this show till tomorrow (and likely Tuesday), but I am excited for some of the matches. I thought the last show was a little flat - nothing terrible, but nothing great the entire night (save for Ambrose's run in). I'm hoping tonight will be a different case and the show will actually feel meaningful.

I just watched the "DX Confidential" interview and, again, the thing comes off as such a revisionist history of things that it is almost unbearable at times. For those posters who detest the WWE's overhype of HBK, steer clear because it will largely enrage you. The Pros: - At least some credit given to the originality of the Chyna character and how important she was at getting Triple H over. - Footage of Shawn Michaels "retiring" at the post-WM14 press conference. Basically, all you see is him getting held back by Shane McMahon and then storming out of the building. I'd never seen this footage or really knew about it as I always figured Shawn left quietly without incident. How foolish for me to think he'd be so classy in 97'. The Cons: - The continued WWE push of DegenerationX as a truly revolutionary stable in professional wrestling when, the fact is, while they sold a ton of merchandise over the years, they didn't really "create" much new. You can really sum up their actual landmark moments into just a handful (Rude appearing on Nitro and RAW on the same night, the Mike Tyson storyline [which was really more about Austin], and the X-Pac "shoot" the night after WM14). Everything else was sketch comedy and dick jokes and much of it really wasn't THAT original (for example, the nWo parodied the Horsemen in 97', almost a year before DX parodied the Nation). I'm not saying they weren't popular or that the whole DX marketing campaign hasn't been a huge seller for the company for going close to 20 years, but in terms of actually changing the face of a wrestling promotion (and arguably the national wrestling landscape), I'd rank DX well behind the Horsemen, the Freebirds, the nWo, the Hart Foundation, and probably even the Dungeon of Doom and Moondogs. When you throw in international stables (which I admittedly know nothing about) and others I'm forgetting, I'm guessing DX barely rank in the top 10 of truly game-changing stables. - Very little mention of the Outlaws and X-Pac. The 98' version of DX was arguably more important and prominent than the original 97' group, so, I felt like it would've been nice for, at some point in the interview, Road Dogg or Gunn to make an appearance via Skype if they couldn't be there in person.

Savage comes to mind as a real-life cartoon. I mean, wacky clothes, wacky voice, wacky facial expressions. I'm not saying he didn't come off as human at times, but man, there are horses of different colors, but Macho was like a horse from a different planet (The moon? The stars? Venus?).