Acknowledgement of wrestling history

[jdw]

Gorrilla was possibly confusing Adonis' tag titles:

 

AWA = Adonis & Ventura

WWF = Adonis & Murdoch

 

Since Dick was gone and working for the other promotion, they couldn't mention him.

 

In a sense, Gorrilla was putting over Adonis as he wanted to, while avoiding talking about a wrestling with another company, while putting over the WWF's top color commentator. Some great ju-jitsu there.

 

John

[artDDP]

There was a time when guys like the Road Warriors, national stars for several years, jumped to the WWF and were pushed as "newcomers".

To be fair, they were referred to as "newcomers to the World Wrestling Federation," not as newcomers to pro wrestling itself.

And besides, to talk about their years of experience could have provided free advertising to JCP/NWA, their main rival.

 

When I was younger I knew there was an NWA and a WWF and sometimes wrestlers wound up working for the other promotion, and I thought nothing of it. When WWE released their first Ric Flair box set, I never appreciated just how...surreal it was how they danced around the fact that Flair spent almost ten years headlining their chief rival's cards. Lots of talk about defending his "real world's championship" all around the world and people wondering what would happen if he faced Hogan. They never actually said where Flair was wrestling but it was as if they assumed the audience just knew some of these guys were from the NWA and wouldn't notice the others (Barry Windham as "The Widowmaker," unless Roddy Piper pulled a Tony Atlas and shit all over that gimmick during Superstars?).

[babylonianfrost]

(... unless Roddy Piper pulled a Tony Atlas and shit all over that gimmick during Superstars?).

What was the deal with that anyway? Given that Superstars was hardly a live show and VKM was sitting RIGHT THERE doing commentary with him, I assume that line had to be okayed. I remember McMahon saying something after Piper went off about how Atlas was re-embracing his heritage and made some comment about Piper & his kilt then Roddy backed right down. It struck me as odd then and it still is one of those weird meaningless things I still wonder about. Was it pre-emptive against some imagined horde of people watching Savoldi's ICW who might care about Tony Atlas or something?

[artDDP]

(... unless Roddy Piper pulled a Tony Atlas and shit all over that gimmick during Superstars?).

What was the deal with that anyway? Given that Superstars was hardly a live show and VKM was sitting RIGHT THERE doing commentary with him, I assume that line had to be okayed. I remember McMahon saying something after Piper went off about how Atlas was re-embracing his heritage and made some comment about Piper & his kilt then Roddy backed right down. It struck me as odd then and it still is one of those weird meaningless things I still wonder about. Was it pre-emptive against some imagined horde of people watching Savoldi's ICW who might care about Tony Atlas or something?

 

In short, I have no idea

 

I have a tape of an old Superstars telecast when Col. Mustafa debuted and right after his "inset" promo Roddy says something like, "Vinny, I tell ya these ideas just keep getting stranger as the years go on!"

 

Vince replies with, "Yes, indeed, a former WWF champion now calling himself Colonel Mustafa..."

 

I mean, WTF? That show was taped months in advance and they made sure to sweeten the crowd noise at any opportunity but they let Roddy run wild? Was it a wink to the smarts at the time?

[Johnny Guitar]

I noticed Gorilla and company were more apt to namedrop historical wrestlers on the MSG shows. I've heard them reference Johnny Valentine, Don Leo Jonathan and even Jim Londos.

Listening to Gorilla's commentry years later. I kind of get the impression he was alllowed to say whatever he wanted (as long as it didn't disrupte the " current storyline" or mention someone who was in JCP). So he could name drop people from the past like Johnny Valentine or Bobo Brazil, but he couldn't mention Ric Flair or the fact that Andre beat Hogan at Shea Stadium

 

 

 

(... unless Roddy Piper pulled a Tony Atlas and shit all over that gimmick during Superstars?).

What was the deal with that anyway? Given that Superstars was hardly a live show and VKM was sitting RIGHT THERE doing commentary with him, I assume that line had to be okayed. I remember McMahon saying something after Piper went off about how Atlas was re-embracing his heritage and made some comment about Piper & his kilt then Roddy backed right down. It struck me as odd then and it still is one of those weird meaningless things I still wonder about. Was it pre-emptive against some imagined horde of people watching Savoldi's ICW who might care about Tony Atlas or something?

 

They even parioded this years later when Ron Simmons debuted, with Vince not really recoginizing him and lawler screaming "Thats Ron Simmons".

 

 

Vince always seems to flip/flop about who would be recognized and who wouldn't when they either returned or debuted in the WWF. It seemed to depend on what side of the bed he got out of that morning. I remember it blew my mind when Jim Cornette showed up on Raw and Heenan was going "Do you know who that is?" and Vince matter of factly going "Yeah that's Jim Cornette". Yet a few months earlier he didn't recognize Lex Luger when he debuted.

[Bix]

"He looks like Ron Simmons...but...BIGGER than Ron Simmons!"

[flyonthewall2983]

That blue gladiator outfit* did wonders for his size.

 

 

Blue, really?

 

 

 

 

 

REALLY???

[Al]

Listening to Gorilla's commentry years later. I kind of get the impression he was alllowed to say whatever he wanted (as long as it didn't disrupte the " current storyline" or mention someone who was in JCP). So he could name drop people from the past like Johnny Valentine or Bobo Brazil, but he couldn't mention Ric Flair or the fact that Andre beat Hogan at Shea Stadium

Which reminds me of an episode of Prime Time Wrestling (roundtable era) where Vince McMahon namedrops Bobo Brazil just as a segue from Beau Beverly. It was an odd conversation.

[MikeCampbell]

I seem to recall a spell in 1991 or so when Ricky Steamboat was known as simply "The Dragon" and there wasn't any mention of his name. The same thing when Tito Santana became "El Matador" although later on his name was tacked onto the end.

[El-P]

First time Kerry showed up on Saturday Night, he was announced as The Texas Tornado Kerry von Erich. Then didn't they drop his name to only keep Texas Tornado ? My memory is fuzzy.

[flyonthewall2983]

I think they would refer to his name on occasion in interviews and introducing him. With Santana, that was more like a nickname even though it was in front of his name.

[JHawk]

First time Kerry showed up on Saturday Night, he was announced as The Texas Tornado Kerry von Erich. Then didn't they drop his name to only keep Texas Tornado ? My memory is fuzzy.

Even weirder was the fact Vince and Jesse acknowledged that he came from a great wrestling family during that debut.

[flyonthewall2983]

I read somewhere that WWF's magazine in 1984 did a feature on the David Von Erich memorial show. Plus, Kerry (and I think Kevin) did a couple of MSG show's in the early 80's according to the Cawthon site. I'm sure the reason Vince called them a great family was because Fritz never made any serious attempts at going head to head with him in the 80's when World Class was hot and ripe to become a bigger company and threat to the WWF.

[JHawk]

Right, but given that Harley Race was never given the courtesy of any sort of acknowledgement (I think Gorilla even called him a "youngster" in one of his first appearances) it just seemed out of place. Of course, Kerry wound up being a SummerSlam replacement for Beefcake after his parasailing accident anyway, so they had to get him over in a hurry.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I remember that even when Kerry was only called "Texas Tornado" he still had "Kerry" written in glitter on his entrance robe.

The whole early 90's WWF "Guys with no real names" thing annoyed me to no end back then.

[flyonthewall2983]

Right, but given that Harley Race was never given the courtesy of any sort of acknowledgement (I think Gorilla even called him a "youngster" in one of his first appearances) it just seemed out of place.

Well, it probably didn't help that Harley bashed WWF on television before he jumped ship. I'm not even sure in my limited knowledge about the World Class product, if they ever acknowledged New York other than to possibly promote any talent exchange they had with Vince, Sr. Not that they had to considering how more popular they were until Junior started raiding their talent.

[El-P]

The whole early 90's WWF "Guys with no real names" thing annoyed me to no end back then.

The "guys with ridiculous names with no cool nickname" of the late 2000's is way more annoying. I miss wrestler's names being Greg "The Hammer" Valentine or "Rowdy" Roddy Piper.

[El-P]

(I think Gorilla even called him a "youngster" in one of his first appearances)

I think Gorilla called Carlos Colon a youngster too in the Rumble 93. Of all people, Gorilla screwing up with Colon's legacy ?

[Loss]

The whole early 90's WWF "Guys with no real names" thing annoyed me to no end back then.

The "guys with ridiculous names with no cool nickname" of the late 2000's is way more annoying. I miss wrestler's names being Greg "The Hammer" Valentine or "Rowdy" Roddy Piper.

 

I see what you're saying here, I really do. But I do think they tried to come up with nicknames that just didn't get over, probably because they were trying a little too hard. Some, like "Stone Cold", and to a lesser degree "The Game", are synonymous with the wrestler. Some, like the "Brahma Bull", "The Phenom", etc. never caught on in the same way.

[artDDP]

I remember that even when Kerry was only called "Texas Tornado" he still had "Kerry" written in glitter on his entrance robe.

The whole early 90's WWF "Guys with no real names" thing annoyed me to no end back then.

For a while Curt Hennig was "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig on WWF programming. I think they did the same thing with Von Erich, have him debut using his "real name" and then slowly phase it out in favor of the ring name.

[smkelly]

I've been watching some WWF footage lately, mostly JR era commentary and have noticed he routinely referenced things from years past.

 

Like in the 2-04 match between Benoit and HBK, he mentioned the similarities between Benoit and the Dynamite Kid (even saying Dyno was a star in the WWF years ago), the Hart Dungeon, etc. JR had mentioned Dyno at WM17 IIRC during the Benoit/Angle match. Every announcer referenced the medical problems that Benoit and HBK had as well - the one year Benoit missed and the four that HBK missed.

 

Alternatively, I watched some WCW from 92. Specifically, the two Steiner versus Gordy & Williams matches from June. JR on 6-20 acts as though these two teams hadn't just met four days earlier and that Gordy/Williams defeated the WCW Tag Team champions.

[Matt D]

They really do need to bring back the nicknames in the actual ring names. Dashing Cody Rhodes works surprisingly well.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Alternatively, I watched some WCW from 92. Specifically, the two Steiner versus Gordy & Williams matches from June. JR on 6-20 acts as though these two teams hadn't just met four days earlier and that Gordy/Williams defeated the WCW Tag Team champions.

The match was taped four days before Beach Blast but it actually aired two days after the PPV. I don't know why exactly the Clash was taped (it was the only one not to air live to the best of my knowledge) but I would guess it had something to do with coordinating the schedules of the international wrestlers on the show.

[smkelly]

Alternatively, I watched some WCW from 92. Specifically, the two Steiner versus Gordy & Williams matches from June. JR on 6-20 acts as though these two teams hadn't just met four days earlier and that Gordy/Williams defeated the WCW Tag Team champions.

The match was taped four days before Beach Blast but it actually aired two days after the PPV. I don't know why exactly the Clash was taped (it was the only one not to air live to the best of my knowledge) but I would guess it had something to do with coordinating the schedules of the international wrestlers on the show.

 

[Bob Morris]

Regarding Iron Shiek, I do know Gorillia Monsoon identified him as such when he debuted with the Col. Mustafa character. Honestly, I don't think there is any way Vince McMahon could have prevented fans from knowing it was the Iron Shiek, because everyone knew darn well who Hulk Hogan won the title from and would immediately recognize him, unless they had Shiek shave his mustache and wear a wig.

 

When Barry Windham returned as The Widow Maker, he looked somewhat different, and with Tony Atlas, he was somebody that WWF fans likely wouldn't have remembered as well.

 

But no way was Vince going to get away with that with Iron Shiek barring him getting a complete appearance makeover. If Vince really thought he could pretend it wasn't Iron Shiek, he was incredibly dumb.