Tim Evans Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm surprised Dylan didn't mention Tommy Rich. Reading the old observers and message board things, he gets a bad rap for being fat and out of shape and no good. After watching mid 90's USWA, he was easily one of the best parts of that era along with Lawler and Brian Christopher. His feuds with Jeff Jarrett in 93 and PG-13 in 95-97 were pretty great. Plus his work with Tracy Smothers and the FBI in ECW might be some of the best stuff ever. Easily top 10 manager of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 He was also really good in WCW. Watching some Power Hours from 91 and he was not out of place mixing it up with the Horsemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Joshi workers who fit this category would be workers like Mimi Hagiwara, Yumi Ikeshita, Jumbo Hori, Yumi Ogura, Kazue Nagahori and Hiromi Yagi. I'm not sure I buy into Bull as a forgotten worker because of her WWF run, but I agree that her time holding the company together is lost in the haze of the interpromotional stuff. Nevertheless, I think Kyoko, Ozaki, Kansai and Masami all fit the bill to a greater degree than Bull. Chigusa's 80s stuff will see the light of day when the DVDVR Joshi set is released, but I assume most people are aware that she was good in the 80s. The biggest reassessment there will be whether was better than Asuka, who was the Takada of 80s Joshi so to speak. In terms of a worker being misjudged in the past, I think Shinobu Kandori takes the cake there w/ Jackie Sato being another worker who people don't have a very well informed opinion about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Joshi has been pretty much forgotten as a whole. I never was under the impression Bull was underrated or anything. I always heard of Bull as being as great if not better than Aja. Ditto for Ozaki, who's been pimped nonstop for ever. I can see why people would not like Masami much because of her late SuperHeel antics, but anyone who's seen Devil even as late as the early 90's knows she was awesome, not to mention her 80's work. Kyoko and Kansai have been pimped as great workers forever too. Yagi is not exactly the lost 90's super worker, as she was always referred to as a great worker, it's just that people didn't pay attention. The last lost great worker of joshi puroresu was Naomi "The Bloody" Kato. No one watched Jd'. Really, as far as joshi worker go, Kandori fits the bill perfectly, she was way better than she was pimped to be in the late 90's when I got into puroresu (the opposite of Hotta). Cuty Suzuki was much better than she was ever given credit for. Asuka has been exposed years ago as a sometime spectacular (in a highspot sense) but formulaic, spotty and selfish worker. One day I'll watch joshi puroresu again. I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mighty Inoue just came to mind. Quite the dandy athlete for someone with his body shape. He pretty much fell off the radar in the '80s, but what I've seen from the '70s and early '90s is top-notch. IWE gets a bad rep because you had the likes of Strong Kobayashi and Rusher Kimura on top, but they had several quality wrestlers on the second tier. Cuty Suzuki was much better than she was ever given credit for.Yes. She was quite good in the '93 interpromotional stuff I've seen. But she wasn't in any of the highest-profile bouts, and JWP is much much less watched than AJW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mighty Inoue just came to mind. Quite the dandy athlete for someone with his body shape. He pretty much fell off the radar in the '80s, but what I've seen from the '70s and early '90s is top-notch. IWE gets a bad rep because you had the likes of Strong Kobayashi and Rusher Kimura on top, but they had several quality wrestlers on the second tier. Cuty Suzuki was much better than she was ever given credit for.Yes. She was quite good in the '93 interpromotional stuff I've seen. But she wasn't in any of the highest-profile bouts, and JWP is much much less watched than AJW. The few I've seen from Mighty Inoue from the late 80's early 90's was quite good. Talking about JWP, Commando Bolshoi is a damn good worker that was considered a dud because of the clown gimmick. But she's quite the trooper, and apparently was still a quality worker in the 00's from what I heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 There will be plenty of new workers to discover on the Europe set. Very true. I suspect people are going to love Jim Breaks even if they don't care for WoS (which is hard for me to fathom really, but I guarantee you there will be plenty of people who don't "get it.") And Breaks is really the tip of the iceburg.  Breaks is absolutely incredible and I have never seen a match of his that I haven't enjoyed. I can't imagine how people could come out of this set (never having seen him before) and not be blown away by his performances. Matches versus the likes of Young David, Jackie Turpin, Kung Fu, Sammy Lee are all worth searching out even older stuff from the 70s that is outside the timeframe for the project. He has one match against Kamakazi (a masked Maurice Hunter) from October 1981, where the match is stopped after Kamakazi falls through the ropes to the floor and is unable to continue the match. The ring announcer states that in an instance like this the winner would say how he doesn't want to win the match like this and it would be declared a no-contest; Breaks wants none of this and accepts the decision anyway (it plays out far better than it reads).  I know it will be a while before this set is done but I am really looking forward to seeing who people really start to appreciate and enjoy after seeing this set. In recent years the likes of Johnny Saint, Steve Grey, Marty Jones have gotten a fair bit of exposure through the internet, but for everyone of them there is a Mike 'Flash' Jordan, an 'Iron Fist' Clive Myers, a 'Superstar' Mal Sanders who all seem to be relatively unknown.  I have also sent Will 10 discs of Satellite Wrestling for him to look through for this set, so hopefully these have safely arrived with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Unfortunately, WoS starts to nose dive after '84, so I hope we can get as much original broadcast stuff as possible. There's a Saint/Grey match from 1980 that wasn't broadcast on TWC that might just be the MOTD for Europe. Would be awesome to release a 70s set at some point, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would think a 70's Set would include a lot of Europe. How was much Adrian Street WoS is available from the 70's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 From memory the only Adrian Street that aired on TWC was the awesome Jim Breaks match and the not-as-good Mick McMichael match. The latter is on youtube if you haven't seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've got the Street v. Breaks match on my comp. It's probably one of the ten best matches I've seen pre-80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 There will be plenty of new workers to discover on the Europe set. Very true. I suspect people are going to love Jim Breaks even if they don't care for WoS (which is hard for me to fathom really, but I guarantee you there will be plenty of people who don't "get it.") And Breaks is really the tip of the iceburg. Â I can understand people having a hard time getting into WoS. I've liked some of it that I've gotten from PWT, but mostly it was guys with a lot of schtick like Jim Breaks or Catweazle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've got the Street v. Breaks match on my comp. It's probably one of the ten best matches I've seen pre-80 Just to clarify, I meant that the Street/Mick McMichael match can also be found on youtube. Apparently, there's two non-TWC Adrian Street matches out there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is tough to answer because I'm not exactly sure where popular opinion is at on a lot of guys. Seems like most underrated guys from the 80's-90's get recognition at this point  I want to say Sandman, he was generally pretty fucking great and probably underrated  Is One Man Gang considered a good worker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think OMG is considered to be a pretty great big man now. He's benefited a lot from the dvdvr 80's sets. He had some awesome performances in the Mid South and Texas sets. Â I don't think he ever reached the level of "he sucks", but Paul Orndorff is underrated in my book. The guy was solid in the ring, and had one of the best programs with Hogan ever. Is he a WON hall of famer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Everybody knows Gang was great. They even put him over big time on one of those legend round table shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Even Akeem is quite fun now that I realize its a Dusty Rhodes satire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Even Akeem is quite fun now that I realize its a Dusty Rhodes satire. It's interesting how the Dusty swipes were always race-baiting. Akeem, Virgil ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 So, I've seen plenty of great Sheephearders matches, but did they ever do anything even remotely good as The Bushwhackers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 So, I've seen plenty of great Sheephearders matches, but did they ever do anything even remotely as good as The Bushwhackers? This is how I read this at first (added word bolded) and I was like, "What?" Â But to answer your question, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Maybe I prefer head-licking spots to a good, bloody brawl  Growing up mainly watching WWF stuff for a while, it's interesting to think of all the guys who were really great in some territory, and then totally sucked in the WWF. Butch Reed, The Bushwhackers...I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I saw this Sheepherders squash on an episode of NWA Pro. They worked exactly like they did as the Bushwhackers but it was not like the Bushwhackers at all. They seemed like the scariest guys in the world. Which I found impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm still a Sheepherders fan, but as someone who's seen the whole Crockett Cup match w/ the Fantastics, the legend of that match, seemingly their best, is in fact a lie based on just the end of the match and the post-match brawl being included on the home video. Even the brawl wasn't as good in the context of the match being disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think the Bushwackers gimmick is the best thing to happen to Miller/Williams. Both were in their early 40s by the time they entered the WWF. It gave them an easier style and a crowd-pleasing gimmick that they could take on the indy circuit for several years yet. Hardcore matches could've gotten them into ECW, but that wasn't exactly a paying gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 So, I've seen plenty of great Sheephearders matches, but did they ever do anything even remotely as good as The Bushwhackers? This is how I read this at first (added word bolded) and I was like, "What?" Â But to answer your question, no. Â There are Rougeaus/Bushwhackers matches that really aren't bad and that work in a "wrestler vs goofy brawler" sort of way. They're comedy matches, but there was a spot on the card for that and they're well plotted out. I've found that I'm far more tolerable to Bushwhacker matches when I'm watching an entire card and see how the match fits in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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