Wrestlemania 20 7

[khawk20]

I dont know why some people are heralding Under/Taker as great or a Wrestlemania classic WWE might as well have put up energy and momentum bars on the screen for how video gamey it was.

Great description. If that's what passes as a modern-day wrestling "Classic", I don't feel like I'm missing much at all.

[El-P]

I dont know why some people are heralding Under/Taker as great or a Wrestlemania classic WWE might as well have put up energy and momentum bars on the screen for how video gamey it was.

Great description. If that's what passes as a modern-day wrestling "Classic", I don't feel like I'm missing much at all.

 

Because it's not wrestling. It's "entertainment".

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I don't watch any more, but building up Rock/Cena for a year sounds like pure silliness. Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in Rock, team him up with Cena for a couple of PPVs, then book the breakup and WM match? It just seems like there's money to be made by having them team as faces for a while before turning Cena. It also allows for Vince to be more flexible instead of locking himself into a WM main event a year in advance.

[El-P]

What's *really* silly is that they basically built toward a Rock vs Cena confrontation at this year's WM, which didn't really happen. Then after a month of cutting promos on each others and The Rock basically murdering Cena, they shake hands, show mutual respect and say "we'll have a match in one year". WTF.

[Kostka]

I think this show will go down in the history books as largely "forgettable" moreso than "bad", because most of the matches ranged from good to very good, with the only real disappointment being Lawler/Cole and the booking of the main. It just didnt FEEL like Wrestlemania. Nothing really happened. No titles changed hands, no real surprises or memorable moments. Whoever said it felt like a 4 hour Raw hit the nail.

 

 

Not only are they planning it, they announced it! They did build up Hogan/Savage for a year in 1988 and 1989, but 2011 Vince McMahon and the creative team aren't exactly 1988 Vince and Pat Patterson, who could really craft something brilliant with this. He's the guy that should be booking the buildup to this match.

100% agreed and I wouldn't be surprised if Vince pulled out Patterson just for the task. I'm not sure that I trust current creative to do this, er... "the right way", otherwise.

 

I really didn't get the part in the HHH/Taker match where HHH went and brooded in the corner after hitting Taker with the chair. Was it supposed to be that he had immediate remorse and didn't want to win that way? He had a chance to beat Taker and chose not to, which is totally against his character. Then when Taker starts to wake up HHH yells at him to STAY DOWN. Stay down for what? He was down for a minute and HHH didn't do anything!

Despite all the stuff that's been tossed out that typically makes me cringe, I was willing to give the match a chance whenever it comes out on DVD. But that one just lost me.

 

John

 

You know going in that they were going to be dropping big bombs, lots of them, and be kicking out of lots of them, with a lot of "WTF, why won't this guy stay down, jesus christ, WTF?" facials from both guys. That's just how these matches are worked. if you've seen the HHH/HBK HIAC match, you know how much Trips likes stalling between big spots, and you know how Taker worked his matches against Shawn. I thought they accomplished what they had to, and we got an intense battle of old warriors in a clash of the titans style WWE main event match. There have been a lot better matches of it's kind, and a lot worse ones. It was flawed by nature, and isn't a match that'll stand the test of time, but worked in it's context.

[flyonthewall2983]

Is this the first time no belts changed hands at a WM?

[Resident Evil]

What's *really* silly is that they basically built toward a Rock vs Cena confrontation at this year's WM, which didn't really happen. Then after a month of cutting promos on each others and The Rock basically murdering Cena, they shake hands, show mutual respect and say "we'll have a match in one year". WTF.

People who always strive to be their very best wether they're enemy or foe always end up respecting each other so it makes sense from that perspective. I was expecting the respect deal to come up soon. Some fans don't like it when it happens but I always did. It's very Japanese and now ROH like.

[kjh]

I don't watch any more, but building up Rock/Cena for a year sounds like pure silliness. Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in Rock, team him up with Cena for a couple of PPVs, then book the breakup and WM match? It just seems like there's money to be made by having them team as faces for a while before turning Cena. It also allows for Vince to be more flexible instead of locking himself into a WM main event a year in advance.

Few problems with this scenario. Firstly, I guess Rock isn't going to be around much over the next nine months and doesn't want to wrestle until next year's Mania. Secondly, I can't see them turning Cena because he's such a merchandise draw for them and there's no-one ready to replace him in that role. I mean out of touch Vince was so desperate for the fans not to boo Cena at Mania that's why he brought in a gospel choir to sing Cena's entrance music on the show. Given that they want to recreate The Rock vs. Hogan vibe, they should have turned Rock cool heel. The hardcore audience would still cheer Rock, perhaps even more so, while keeping Cena a babyface to his loyal kid fanbase.

[Ditch]

Is this the first time no belts changed hands at a WM?

Yes.

[Log]

I was thinking during the Cole/Lawler match, that WWE is really missing Pat Patterson right now. He is gone, isn't he? Hasn't he been responsible for laying out a lot of the "non-wrestler" matches in the past?

 

Also, count me in on liking HHH/Taker. I told one of my friends that it was kind of like the wrestling equivalent of a Michael Bay movie. They started with the explosions within the first two minutes. There was a bit of a story, but nothing too deep. I like the route they're going with the streak being the only thing keeping UT going, while killing him at the same time.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I don't watch any more, but building up Rock/Cena for a year sounds like pure silliness. Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in Rock, team him up with Cena for a couple of PPVs, then book the breakup and WM match? It just seems like there's money to be made by having them team as faces for a while before turning Cena. It also allows for Vince to be more flexible instead of locking himself into a WM main event a year in advance.

Few problems with this scenario. Firstly, I guess Rock isn't going to be around much over the next nine months and doesn't want to wrestle until next year's Mania. Secondly, I can't see them turning Cena because he's such a merchandise draw for them and there's no-one ready to replace him in that role. I mean out of touch Vince was so desperate for the fans not to boo Cena at Mania that's why he brought in a gospel choir to sing Cena's entrance music on the show. Given that they want to recreate The Rock vs. Hogan vibe, they should have turned Rock cool heel. The hardcore audience would still cheer Rock, perhaps even more so, while keeping Cena a babyface to his loyal kid fanbase.

 

Like I said, I don't watch any more so I am probably way off, but what little I've watched of the Rock's return seems like a wasted opportunity. That's fine if he's not going to be around much until next year's WM. Have him appear at Raw ocassionally and help Cena out at Summer Slam and Royal Rumble. You could still build to a Hogan/Rock vibe with that scenerio. It makes a lot more sense that having the two insult each other for six weeks, Rock cost Cena the title, then magically find mutual respect for each other one night later.

[Matt D]

I don't watch any more, but building up Rock/Cena for a year sounds like pure silliness. Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in Rock, team him up with Cena for a couple of PPVs, then book the breakup and WM match? It just seems like there's money to be made by having them team as faces for a while before turning Cena. It also allows for Vince to be more flexible instead of locking himself into a WM main event a year in advance.

Few problems with this scenario. Firstly, I guess Rock isn't going to be around much over the next nine months and doesn't want to wrestle until next year's Mania. Secondly, I can't see them turning Cena because he's such a merchandise draw for them and there's no-one ready to replace him in that role. I mean out of touch Vince was so desperate for the fans not to boo Cena at Mania that's why he brought in a gospel choir to sing Cena's entrance music on the show. Given that they want to recreate The Rock vs. Hogan vibe, they should have turned Rock cool heel. The hardcore audience would still cheer Rock, perhaps even more so, while keeping Cena a babyface to his loyal kid fanbase.

 

Also, they could do a one-night turn (re: Shawn vs Hogan). And really, they'll just bring Rock in for some key touchstones every x number of months. Ideally he'd tag with Cena at Summerslam or Survivor series, special ref at the Rumble, etc.

[JerryvonKramer]

Naturally, I didn't watch this, and have no intention to, but can someone sum it up for me in 10 words?

 

EDIT: Wait, wait, the US-title was defended on a dark match?!

 

Does the IC title still exist?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Yes, Wade Barrett is champ.

[Kronos]

post edited to remove assholish comments

 

sorry

[Matt D]

Naturally, I didn't watch this, and have no intention to, but can someone sum it up for me in 10 words?

Not So Bad If You Did Not Pay For It

[Sean Liska]

You don't need to turn Rock or Cena. They will both have passionate fans at the show and the atmosphere will be tremendous. Before both Mania and RAW this weekend, there were loud "Let's go Cena, Cena Sucks" chants with people screaming at each other. It'll be great.

[smkelly]

I watched the Taker/Hunter match this morning. I loved it.

[flairchops]

I watched it live. I enjoyed it. I've accepted WWE for what it's become and really don't expect much rasslin', maybe a few cool spots and the usual big epic match. It's a spectacle and fun to watch.

 

I liked the Taker/HHH match. Loved the intros. Any other stage and the entrance for the entrance thing would be absurd, but once a year it's cool.

 

The only thing I really disliked was the double-count out > restart > weak Miz win thing. I really can't understand how that made it past the first round of suggestions as an acceptable ending. There's like two or three WTF moments in a matter of 2 minutes.

 

And I'll just briefly mention the RAW encounter - if you're going to hold off a year, don't make it either one of their ideas. The fans wanted them to beat the shit out of each other. If they aren't, give them a good reason or someone else to hate, not Rock saying, "Hey, John, why don't we wait a year?"

[kjh]

Bryan explains why the Rock's announcement on Raw came off so badly:

 

-- I don't know the full extent, but apparently there was a massive last-minute rewrite of Raw yesterday. In the early afternoon the idea was that HHH vs. Undertaker would take place at SummerSlam, and Taker would likely be facing Cena at WrestleMania 28. Then a few hours later they made the Rock vs. Cena Mania 28 announcement, a quite substantial change in a few hours. There are people who believe the long-term plan was always to build Mania 28 around Rock, even if they didn't think they could get him to wrestle, and that's why Miami was chosen. Besides the match he'll likely also be getting the Ric Flair treatment. Vince was out of his mind all weekend changing match orders and such for Mania, far worse than usual. Which is ironic given that he's now announced a main event a year out that presumably he can't change. Well, he can, but he'll look goofy doing so.

[goodhelmet]

Dylan and I were talking about match placement and I was toying around with the idea of if you had the same matches play out but in a different order, the feeling would be much different.

 

Lets see...

 

Rey vs. Rhodes - Dylan said there were large chunks of the crowd that were dead for this match more than any other in the stadium. If it was the opener, I think the heat would have been better not following a world title win and matches could easily follow it.

 

Punk vs. Orton - Super hot match that could build on the Rey-Rhodes opener and not having to follow a world title match.

 

Corre Tag

 

Lawler vs. Cole - Put this here and you have the SD! announcers here to work this match and the SD! World title match. Then the Stunners happen and JR and King work both title matches and the other big matches as well. Match would have sucked but you follow it with...

 

Del Rio vs. Edge - This helps the crowd recover from the suck of Lawler-Cole and would still be hot where the suck of Cena-Miz would not hurt it with a deflated crowd.

 

Cena vs. Miz - You do the bullshit finish, the crowd isn't looking at their watches realizing the PPV will end in 3 minutes and yo umay even get better heat even with them waiting for Rocky. Who knows? Still, you are following Edge-Del Rio, not the Taker-HHH deathblow.

 

Snooki Six Man - The right spot for the match.

 

HHH vs. Taker - Mania ends on a high note, everyone goes home happy and talks about how this was such a great Mania.

[Matt D]

The only problem with putting Cena vs Miz anywhere but last is that you can't just leave it hanging after Rocky attacks Cena. The show would have to end with a pull apart or something. Cena would have had two matches to recover and go to Rock's dressing room.

[shawmic]

Bryan explains why the Rock's announcement on Raw came off so badly:

 

-- I don't know the full extent, but apparently there was a massive last-minute rewrite of Raw yesterday. In the early afternoon the idea was that HHH vs. Undertaker would take place at SummerSlam, and Taker would likely be facing Cena at WrestleMania 28. Then a few hours later they made the Rock vs. Cena Mania 28 announcement, a quite substantial change in a few hours. There are people who believe the long-term plan was always to build Mania 28 around Rock, even if they didn't think they could get him to wrestle, and that's why Miami was chosen. Besides the match he'll likely also be getting the Ric Flair treatment. Vince was out of his mind all weekend changing match orders and such for Mania, far worse than usual. Which is ironic given that he's now announced a main event a year out that presumably he can't change. Well, he can, but he'll look goofy doing so.

This is so silly. Isn't it possible Vince was just working the writers so the Rock-Cena announcement wouldn't leak?

 

I find it very hard to believe they were legitimately planning Cena-Undertaker on Monday morning and then just decided hey, lets do Rock vs Cena instead! If Rock agreed to a match it's on his terms not whatever Vince was feeling Monday afternoon.

[kjh]

Isn't it possible Vince was just working the writers so the Rock-Cena announcement wouldn't leak?

Most likely the lower rungs of the creative team were left out of the loop on the decision making. Moreover, as Vince was nit picking all week over the WrestleMania script, then it isn't surprising that rewriting Raw was left to the last minute.

[EricR]

So apparently I was one of the only people that really liked Wrestlemania.

 

I thought Edge/Del Rio was really good, though really wanted the armbar to finish. Brodus, Christian, and Ricardo were all really great at ringside, with Christian's punches looking awesome and then taking a huge bump from Brodus' throw, Ricardo running into frame to pull the foot was great. Del Rio took some massive bumps and I really am quite in love with him. If you told me a year ago one of my favorite workers would be Dos Caras Jr.? Forget it. Edge looked lousy but everybody else worked overtime to make that not an issue.

 

Really liked Rey/Cody and loved all the mask stuff, liked Rey's big tangled up in the ropes bump, liked Cody's big springboard kick.

 

Thought the 8 man got perfect amount of time for the people involved. Kane got to hit his cool uppercut that Gabriel put over huge and that was all, Santino hit the Cobra, I was fine with this.

 

Thought the backstage skit with Snoop was actually funny, actually laughed out loud at Piper's reaction. Though I really hate the Hornswoggle talking in grunts thing.

 

REALLY liked Orton/Punk, as Orton cut way back on his slithering bullshit and Punk was amazing. His high kick to reverse out of the RKO was an awesome spot. While I normally don't care for the "guy leaping and being caught in the RKO" spot, I thought this was handled well as at least Punk was caught during a spot he routinely does. Also, the pre-match video with Orton hitting all the punts was my favorite WWE promo video since the HBK/UT Placebo-covering-Kate Bush video last year. Really made Orton seem way more interesting and dangerous than he's come off in the past year.

 

Lawler/Cole was booked odd for reasons many others have gone over, but I still really enjoyed large parts of the match, and really dug Cole getting pulled headfirst repeatedly into his Pope bubble. Also liked Lawler grabbing Cole by the headgear and beating him.

 

Taker/HHH went too long for my liking, but I liked large parts of the match, and HHH's backdrop bump was insane. Taker busts out his WM dive, match drug towards the ending, but actually bought the Tombstone as the finish, so they at least got me hooked there.

 

Thought the 6 man was also perfect length. Layla took a big bump of the clothesline on the floor, and Snooki soaked up the boos while doing a legitimately better handspring-based offense than when Davey Richards tries the same. Her finisher reminded me of Chris Hero's 2001 CZW juniors tribute offense and I dug it.

 

Main event I really liked up until the ending stopped it dead. EVERYthing before that I really loved. Both guys seemed to be working really stiff, way stiffer than I remember either of them working in a long while. Cena's running clothesline on the floor was insane and the way the shot it made him look like a monster. And the spot that got them counted out was really great, too. Miz really went SPLAT right onto the concrete. Ending stank, but the match itself had too much good.

 

I guess I don't really get the people saying the show didn't have any "wrestling" on it. I thought it had three good-to-great matches on it, but some here seem to really be shitting a brick about it.

 

Whatever, I didn't pay anything for it and while it ran a little long, I chalked it up as a good night of watching wrestling with friends.