Marty Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Also, Meltzer is claiming that JR legit didn't know he was going to be fired when it happened. I find that really hard to believe myself so i'm taking it with a grain of salt but if true that's one the shittiest things the companies ever done. No reason not to tell the guy except just to be assholes. Hard to feel sorry for JR since at this point he's like an addict who just keeps coming back for one more fix but still, it was a dick move to do. Yeah, colour me skeptical on the whole "JR didn't know this was going to happen" stuff. Maybe he got to know before showtime upon the thousandth rewriting of RAW, but as it happened? Also, Ross is a carny himself, look at how much he's flip-flopped on a number of stories over the years, such as Montreal or Austin walking out. Part of me honestly thinks this is JR's way of getting his version of the "Aww shucks" face heat that we all felt Mick Foley has attained for himself over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 WWE CEO Vince McMahon was reportedly sick with flu-like symptoms at TV tapings earlier this month, which some people in WWE believe affected his work and caused concern for his health. Even returning to TV on Monday's Raw, McMahon did not seem like himself, as he showed more signs of aging and did not have the trademark swagger/bravado. Credit: Wrestling Observer Flu-like symptoms carny for cocaine problem? Who re-worded that? They made it sound far, far more dire than Dave did. PWTorch. Likely James Caldwell. Wade Keller was pushing the talking point a number of weeks ago that people are comparing Vince now to Verne at the end of the AWA. But Wade made it completely clear that he wasn't alleging senility in regards to Vince. He left it open to what was the root was perhaps for legal reasons. But Wade did discuss the idea Vince was bored with Wrestling while also feeling really resentful of all his non-Wrestling projects failing & not personally having mainstream or TV industry respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Possibly to all that, but I think the logical explanation is much simpler -- he's getting older, needs to walk away and won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Possibly to all that, but I think the logical explanation is much simpler -- he's getting older, needs to walk away and won't.Has anyone devoted a larger % of their life to pro wrestling than Vince McMahon Jr? If you count travel, he does 100 hour weeks most weeks going back thirty years. If anyone can't walk away it's him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 WWE CEO Vince McMahon was reportedly sick with flu-like symptoms at TV tapings earlier this month, which some people in WWE believe affected his work and caused concern for his health. Even returning to TV on Monday's Raw, McMahon did not seem like himself, as he showed more signs of aging and did not have the trademark swagger/bravado. Credit: Wrestling Observer Flu-like symptoms carny for cocaine problem? Who re-worded that? They made it sound far, far more dire than Dave did. What Dave wrote: There’s been more talk of late of Vince showing his age and people asking about his health. Those who have seen him in recent weeks say he looks run down, which no sleep for a week at 66 years old and then sleeping a day and a half straight to catch up will do to you. He was also said to be suffering from the flu, and he wasn’t hiding it from people. Usually if he’s sick, he’ll hide it. No sleep for a week then crashing for a day and a half? What Dave wrote is far, far more dire than what the Torch credited Dave for. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I guess I saw it as less dire because that's not the first time Dave has said that. He mentioned a few months back that it seems to be a weekly thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Dave's talked about it for years in read-betwee-the-lines fashion. But he's reached the point where he's talking about it catching up to Vince. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I was rolling my eyes at how Miz and Truth worked their first match back on the show. After doing an angle like they did at HIAC, working a traditional old-style tag with holds to build heat for a hot tag seemed out of place. It seems like a wild brawl would have been more in context.It even started before the match, really. Here are The Miz & R-Truth, the big "conspiracy" victims. Fired by Triple H. Fined $250,000 dollars each for their actions. Assaulted WWE superstars to close a WWE PPV before surrendering and being arrested. Then being attacked by Triple H while defenseless, the COO of WWE. Making YouTube videos about how they're going to sue WWE. Then Johnny Ace is the new GM & says "Hey, you're rehired. Glad we talked out that lawsuit." and they still come out to their old entrance, rapping & saying "you suck" like nothing changed or had happened at all. That whole entire show was fucked. From Rosa Mendez botching standing in the goddamn corner, to Mark Henry wrestling Randy Orton again after they had both just cut promos about how they were moving on from each other. EVERYTHING was fucked. It was awful. The problem is with the execution. If Miz and Truth were in cahoots with Vince and Ace, then it would make sense for them to stroll back in. But they gave no hint that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The similarities between Vince and this man is really starting to get uncanny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 One could also compare 2011 Vince to these icons: "The Decline and Fall of a Great American Businessman" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 No decline and fall of Vito. He handed over a strong business to his son, who made it stronger. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I guess. But there is still time for Shane to return and play the Michael role. I'm not sure if HHH = Sonny or not. Some likely hope for him to experience the in-ring equivalent of the toll booth scene, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Using a Godfather comparison Vince Sr would be Vito and Vince Jr would be Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hmm... that might be true. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Using a Godfather comparison Vince Sr would be Vito and Vince Jr would be Michael. Hmm... that might be true. John So who's Vincent? Shane, Stephanie or HHH? Coppala has always said that if he'd made The Godfather Part 4. It would have been about how Vincent eventually drove the family business into decline and death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thank god in my mind Coppala stopped at 2. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 All I know is, perhaps after Vince is dead, it would be pretty cool if some filmmaker made a serious, well-done Godfather-esque movie saga depicting the history of the McMahon family, featuring all the major players in the wrestling scene from the 50s to present day. Maybe even an HBO-type series. (like was once rumoured) I'm not sure how difficult it would be for something like that to receive a green light, but one can dream. An independent, non-WWE documentary on the subject would also be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thank god in my mind Coppala stopped at 2. John Me too. But as far as wrestling goes. For years I've thought that when Vince knows his time is up he's going to pull a "scorched earth/poison the wells" deal. The man's a complete control freak. The thought that WWE could or would continue without him must drive him nuts. He's got to have the last laugh. They say you always hurt the one you love the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think when Vince does die it will be an out-of-nowhere, massive heart attack on the corporate jet type deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Has anyone devoted a larger % of their life to pro wrestling than Vince McMahon Jr? Yes. All of us. Vince McMahon never promoted wrestling. He's in the entertainment business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 HAHAHA CM Punk schooled Mauro Ranallo and everyone that whines and cries about WWE. @mauroranallo: @CMPunk Any spoilers for tonight's RAW? @CMPunk People will complain about it. Then continue to watch next week. @MauroRanallo Haha! Touche! @MauroRanallo Wow,I have just felt the true power of @CMPunk. That may have been the most RT'd exchange of info that I have ever been a part of. Bravo sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Watch Raw get the lowest non-holiday rating of the year so far this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 So read through this and a couple of thoughts 1) Someone on another board I post on made an interesting point. Sin Cara and Kharma were the first big HHH hires and both blew up in the company's face. Just a fun little side note. On paper, both seemed like good ideas Huh? How were either on paper good ideas? Both really felt like the kind of Konnan bringing in Shima Xion and Danielson to AAA type foolishness. Helmsley takes the role of Konan: guy who watches tape and reads sheets but with little to no understanding of whats taking place on those tapes, no sense of what the pimped people are that he's bringing in and what the actual product that he has that he's bringing that talent into. It's the WWE, so Pena isn't dead yet but everything I've read about HHH's post retirement approach is super Konan-esque. 2) How much credit does HHH get for Orton and Batista? Some for Batista. He gets zero for Orton because he buried Orton at several key moments plus the fact that Orton has never really been over enough to justify his push. Where he gets zero credit for is that fact that Batista and Orton both have pulled shit backstage that people have been fired for less over. HHH should get like 97% of the credit for Batista. Picked him out for Evolution, did a six-month Wrestlemania angle with him that made him a major star, jobbed the next month and then in a Hell in the Cell three months later, and put him over at every turn. He should be credited a bunch for Batista. But it should be pointed out that the secret to the long Batista program was that Batista and HHH didn't face off in the ring. I don't know if it's a wives tale or not but there used to be a story that if a heel failed to mention Dusty in their promo they would be punished by being put into a series opposite Jimmy Valiant---with the idea being working a series with Valiant kills your heat. The best punishment for failing to put HHH over in promos would be being forced to work a series of matches with HHH. Batista and HHH had two matches opposite each other where HHH jobbed in both. No tags, no six mans, no non-title stuff on the way to those matches. Batista got over by not having to work HHH. Also worth pointing out that at point when the audience was super hungry for Batista to be new guy to take over RAW. The audience was super prepared for Batista to be Magnificent Mimi to replace HHH's Moolah (in a way that the RAW audience was super unprepared for how to deal with Cena's Jaguar Yakota). Batista was instead shipped over to Smackdown, and HHH returned to being top dog on RAW. I think the situation where Batista wins and still nothing changes, hurt Batista. 3) He says that HHH was a great technical wrestler because his timing and positioning in the ring were excellent So I've read that issue and yeah the Barend obit is better than the Steve Williams one, and the long line by line response to HHH is really odd And I understand deciding to re-brand the term "technical wrestling" as refering to timing and ring positioning. But HHH is a guy who can't string two moves together. He has to irish whip opponent's into ropes between moves. He's never really figured out a setup to his finisher, at one point he had Chyna low blow opponents to get them in position for Pedigree but after she left...the set up became opponent has to get in front of him and bend over. There are things you can use to compliment HHH, and I wouldn't criticize his timing. But his matches are built on his opponents having to run ropes and be in position for him. Positioning seems like a weird compliment. Dusty was always standing in the right place to bionic elbow the heels who lined up and came running at him? 4) The Muppets on Raw could be outstanding with good writing. That's a big "with". Yeah, I really enjoyed the Sesame Street muppets on Top Chef, and any time they brought out additional footage from that episode it was super great. The Muppet pupeteers are really well trained in how to improvise with non professional actors. The question becomes how much will they be allowed to improv ( have any of the other hosts with improv background done any?), and well the Muppets work pretty blue. I don't expect them to do Beeker and Honydew in Mason Ryan's lockerroom, have Lew Zealand search for his boomerang fish in the divas lockeroom, or script any awesome Scooter and Laurinitis interactions. It's possible that even if they don't work blue, aren't allowed to improv and are stuck using WWE writers scripts thay still might pull something off. Bella twins discover Danielson was a vegan was horribly written comedy but it could see it working if they have Gonzo reading Danielson's lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 On paper, both seemed like good ideas Huh? How were either on paper good ideas? Both really felt like the kind of Konnan bringing in Shima Xion and Danielson to AAA type foolishness. Helmsley takes the role of Konan: guy who watches tape and reads sheets but with little to no understanding of whats taking place on those tapes, no sense of what the pimped people are that he's bringing in and what the actual product that he has that he's bringing that talent into. It's the WWE, so Pena isn't dead yet but everything I've read about HHH's post retirement approach is super Konan-esque. My point was that they normally sign people based on size/physical appearance who have no track record. Mistico at least had a track record. You can make whatever argument you want about how he has been booked, but signing a guy because he was WOTY in the WON is a departure from how Vince normally does business. I'm not sure how bringing in Kharma didn't seem like a great idea. I still think it was, as I'm sure when she comes back, she'll be a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Huh? How were either on paper good ideas? How weren't they good ideas? Kong was getting over great before she had to take time off. From everything I hear Mistico is over huge with atleast a certain part of the audiance and is selling a crap ton of merch. At the very least both mild successes with the potential to be even bigger ones in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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