cheapshot Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 OLD SCHOOL! Watching @WWE @TheGarden from 3.16.75 on @WWENetwork test site:Samartino,Kowalski,Putski,Strongbow,Vachon,Wolfman & more 2.24.14 Joey Styles just tweeted this, so I'd assume this show will be available at launch maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Very odd they're putting up Over the Edge 1999. I remember thinking they absolutely made the right call in not making a VHS release of the event, sad to see a new transfer of the event here. I feel odd knowing this will be the best video quality showing of the event since the initial broadcast. I'm curious (although probably not enough to watch the show) to see how they edit it. Obviously you cut the fall... do you keep any of the updates from Ross? Just an interesting question that we'll get to see the answer to. The fall didn't air anywhere. I actually know someone (who's not a crackpot) who says an honest to God legit fan-shot version on an early, low quality digital camera was on early P2P services like Hotline and shock sites like Ogrish, but I'm not sure I believe him just because the odds of it not getting attention on wrestling sites is nil. Yeah. I'm guessing if anything it'll turn out to be footage from some crazy Japanese garbage fed where someone took a crazy bump from scaffolding to the ring. Or, like a lot of random files on P2P services back then, the video never worked so it was seeded and leeched plenty without anyone actually watching the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Very odd they're putting up Over the Edge 1999. I remember thinking they absolutely made the right call in not making a VHS release of the event, sad to see a new transfer of the event here. I feel odd knowing this will be the best video quality showing of the event since the initial broadcast. I'm curious (although probably not enough to watch the show) to see how they edit it. Obviously you cut the fall... do you keep any of the updates from Ross? Just an interesting question that we'll get to see the answer to. The fall didn't air anywhere. I actually know someone (who's not a crackpot) who says an honest to God legit fan-shot version on an early, low quality digital camera was on early P2P services like Hotline and shock sites like Ogrish, but I'm not sure I believe him just because the odds of it not getting attention on wrestling sites is nil. I came across somebody in another forum who SWORE he had saw it up and down also, and it is hard to wrap your head around when somebody seems SO adamant. I don't think he did because for somebody to have gotten the fall: somebody would have to be filming the general ring area whilst an on screen promo was going on, which is odd. Then the fall would have been so quick, just what are the odds. I have a hard time believing that clip wouldn't have been more widely circulated at the time with tape trades getting hold of it. With the likes of Meltzer not reporting that it was going around the Internet? Somebody like Bret Hart, or another family member surely would have mentioned it at some point. And seeing as the Internet is what it is in 2014, I have a hard time believing it is "lost" footage if it once existed. What is more likely is somebody uploaded "Owen Hart Death Fall" and used a clip of something like the Vic Grimes fall (which somebody did do on YouTube once, followed by legit comments of, "RIP Owen", etc) with an unsuspecting fans buying they had seen it. Or somebody made a video of the photos that fan took from up in the arena, which shows Owen walking the cat walk. That's the closest to candid media just before the fall we are likely to ever get at this point, and that's sad enough to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Worth noting that WWF camera picked up the fall as they are constantly recording. So there would have been video footage, and audio feeds from other camera mics picking up the audio. Bret Hart stated in his book they destroyed the footage. However I don't think this is likely either. I have zero doubt it exists in a vault somewhere, if for nothing else, if ever needed to be relied on in court. There is no way they destroyed the footage. Bret also claims he was mailed the blood stained Blue Blazer costume Owen was cut out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 If I remember correctly, WWE doesn't even have alternate feed footage of the fall, because I think there was a request for it in the Martha Hart lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 But there's a difference between not fulfilling a request that the opposition wants (clearly for a reason) and having a tape in your possession so you hold the chips. If ever relied on for their own benefit (for whatever reason) it suddenly gets "discovered". The BBC has been known to do this with their tape archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 EDIT: Nevermind I'm not jumping in this discussion when I think it's ridiculous how much of it is going on in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 OLD SCHOOL! Watching @WWE @TheGarden from 3.16.75 on @WWENetwork test site:Samartino,Kowalski,Putski,Strongbow,Vachon,Wolfman & more 2.24.14 Joey Styles just tweeted this, so I'd assume this show will be available at launch maybe? It's Butcher Vachon, not Mad Dog, if anyone was wondering.... This show aired on Classics, so it's ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 - By that same logic, a little disappointed that there are no pre-1988 Great American Bashes, although none were pay-per-views and the commercial releases were tour highlights. Based on the footage that has been released over the years, I have always suspected all the Bash house shows from 1986-1988 at the very least were taped in full for possible use on the tour video. Most of the Bash shows from 1986-88 were not taped. I went to the one in Los Angeles in 1988, and it wasn't taped. Looking at 1986, I think the only "tapings" were: July 1 Philadelphia (taping) July 5 Charlotte (taping) July 26 Greensboro (taped) Of the other 10, I think Roanoke had some clips of a Dusty-Bubba angle that made CMPunk's long set... but don't recall if is was a single camera thing simply there to capture an angle rather than a pro shoot. Looking at Graham's site, they also a lot of TV tapings in July at non-Bash cards: 7/6 Raleigh, 7/8 Spartanburg, 7/15 Gaffney, 7/16 Columbia, 7/22 Greenwood, 7/29 Rock Hill. Here are the other Bash shows from 1986: July 3 DC July 4 Memphis July 9 Cincinnati July 10 Roanoke (Clip of Dusty-Bubba confrontation) July 12 Jacksonville July 18 Richmond July 21 Fayetteville July 23 Johnson City July 25 Norfolk August 2 Atlanta Has stuff popped up from them that's pro shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 The reason I suspected that was because of the previously unreleased Flair vs Morton cage match and War Games match from '88 that were released on the Horsemen DVD. It gave me hope. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 The reason I suspected that was because of the previously unreleased Flair vs Morton cage match and War Games match from '88 that were released on the Horsemen DVD. It gave me hope. Oh well. The Morton was from the Charlotte taping. The '88 match was from the same card as another match from the original 1988 GAB video tape. I think there are likely more *matches* from the Bash in the vault, and at the very least more complete matches (as opposed to the "WeGottttaaaaGooooo!" matches on TV). But I'm not sure: * additional cards were taped beyond the ones we know of / have had matches aired/released in the past * if we can count on the entire cards on "known taped shows" being fully taped I don't think JCP was ever like the WWF where if they were taping 3-4 matches on a card, they'd tape the entire thing. It's possible "dark" prelim and main event matches on those cards really were dark. My guess is that we'll get more matches over time... if the WWE gives a crap about airing them. But we probably won't have those house/Bash shows in full like the Maple Leafs Garden and Houston shows popped up on 24/7 as something really fresh. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 To be clear, the guy in question (LordSmurf, best known as the guy behind NoMoreCoasters.com & DigitalFAQ.com) who said he saw footage of the fall did say he's seen all of the usual fakes and that wasn't it. This is the thread in question: http://www.tvpast.org/forum/unscripted/111...n-hart-wwf.html Like I said, he's not a crackpot and I wouldn't give this a second thought if it wasn't from someone I know. Best explanation if he's telling the truth would be it was some kind if fake obscured by the low quality of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Not a crackpot, but... You came through the Usenet era, Bix, right? Something like that would have been posted in one of the Usenet binary groups... in fact, I seem to recall that by the late 90s there was a pro wrestling Usenet binary group. If it was on the P2P equivs in 1999 (he said within days of Owen dying), it likely would have gotten up there to either the PW binary one or one of the other groups. We can joke about The Board being the wrestling equiv of 4chan/one-of-the-various-chans... but old timers like us know that the chans haven't got dick on the incredible, sordid, sleazy, sickening, and often illegal cesspool a (massive) corner of the Usenet was. Owen's death would have been close to the heyday of that wild wild west aspect of the Usenet, shortly before folks moved on: websites, then file sharing sites, and eventually to things like torrents. If it showed up there, some folks would have grabbed it (like he did) and circulated it. If it showed up again in 2002 (as he says on ogrish.com), same thing. His analogy to the nude pics is an interesting one, and I think we all know of stuff that was online at some point and since then all traces have vanished other than what we remember of them. But "Wrestler Dropping To His Death", which was covered by the mainstream media... that's not quite the same as Girl No One But Her Friends Know About. This isn't quite the type of thing that *everyone* who ever saw it would fail to save it... and fail to have it surface again some place. I tend to agree with you: "some kind of fake obscured by the low quality of the video" is more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Not a crackpot, but... You came through the Usenet era, Bix, right? Something like that would have been posted in one of the Usenet binary groups... in fact, I seem to recall that by the late 90s there was a pro wrestling Usenet binary group. If it was on the P2P equivs in 1999 (he said within days of Owen dying), it likely would have gotten up there to either the PW binary one or one of the other groups. We can joke about The Board being the wrestling equiv of 4chan/one-of-the-various-chans... but old timers like us know that the chans haven't got dick on the incredible, sordid, sleazy, sickening, and often illegal cesspool a (massive) corner of the Usenet was. Owen's death would have been close to the heyday of that wild wild west aspect of the Usenet, shortly before folks moved on: websites, then file sharing sites, and eventually to things like torrents. If it showed up there, some folks would have grabbed it (like he did) and circulated it. If it showed up again in 2002 (as he says on ogrish.com), same thing. His analogy to the nude pics is an interesting one, and I think we all know of stuff that was online at some point and since then all traces have vanished other than what we remember of them. But "Wrestler Dropping To His Death", which was covered by the mainstream media... that's not quite the same as Girl No One But Her Friends Know About. This isn't quite the type of thing that *everyone* who ever saw it would fail to save it... and fail to have it surface again some place. I tend to agree with you: "some kind of fake obscured by the low quality of the video" is more likely. Was alt.binaries.pro-wrestling around yet when it happened? If he just said "it was on Hotline and disappeared," I'd be more inclined to believe it was a real video. Hotline didnt gain popularity among wrestling fans until well after the DVDVR board launched, which I think was later that year. But the idea that it could show up on a site like Ogrish, Rotten, etc. in 2002 without it exploding on all sorts of wrestling sites, becoming a news story within the wrestling business, etc. is really far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm almost certain the binaries pro wrestling newsgroup was around by then because I don't think I was on the pro wrestling newsgroups much after 1999, and don't think I was reading the other ones I read back then much after 1999 (r.s.soccer, the baseball stat one, the two JRRT groups). Most of the content that in them that I read migrated to webs just as we did. And I know I had taken a look at the binaries group before them. I had dial up in those days, so getting content off the group really wasn't worth it. Looking around, here's a SKeith FAQ TOC from mid-1999 that references the group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.pro-wrestling.moderated/bQW3Q7H07c0 And a 1998 post from Satry already with the tag line of creating the group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.pro-wrestling.moderated/29SJBzaPjTk * * * * * On the hotline part... what strikes me is that if a fan shot that and was online-savy enough to know about Hotline (which I don't even recall in the fog of time and probably never knew about)... that's a guy who likely would have participated in *some* online wrestling discussion board / group / site. The other thing that's odd is that he says it was "short". If you were taping it, even as morbid as it was, would you have stopped shooting? Just think about the type of person who sneaks in a camera to shot... and then SOMETHING REALLY STRANGE happens. Those folks tend to keep shooting. We have to assume that folks ran to aid Owen, both people at ringside and then rushing out of the back. I just checked out the footage from the PPV that's on DM, and it's a long time, including them cutting away to promo the mixed-tag before coming back with Owen eventually being taken out (hopeful crowd cheer as you often when someone injured is taken out and everyone hopes for the best). All in all, it's about a 9 minute segment. You really have to think that someone with a camera snuck into the building, which he'd been shooting a the time of the fall and "caught it", would also shoot at least *some* of those minutes when they were working on him. It's just odd. I think the poster believes that what he saw was it. But I'm with you... fake obsucred is much more likely. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 On the subject of Over the Edge 1999 and the network: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/02/07/wwe-faces-difficult-decisions-on-network-content/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm also wondering how they're going to handle the nip slips from 1998-1999 from The Kat and Jacqueline. There may have been more, but I remember both of those. If they edit them, they may get "THIS WAS ADVERTISED AS UNEDITED AND YOU LIED!" and if they don't edit them ... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 For what it's worth, Classics on Demand blurred Jacqueline's nip slip when that segment was shown, so I'm guessing the network will do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNLister Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 If you've got access to the WWE Network, you've got access to the Internet. If you've got access to the Internet, you can't make a serious complaint about being unable to see a nipple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 If you've got access to the WWE Network, you've got access to the Internet. If you've got access to the Internet, you can't make a serious complaint about being unable to see a nipple. Man has a solid point here. I don't have an issue with them showing the Over the Edge show, but I wonder what they'll cut out. I know someone uploaded the whole show in like 15-16 parts on YouTube and WWE only issued copyright takedowns on the parts where the fall happened and then later on when JR announced the death. I guess it will be similar on the Network. I kind of hope they cut out the interview with Jarrett and Debra that happened literally right after the accident, that always topped the Melanie Pillman interview on my personal "fuck, this is uncomfortable" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm also wondering how they're going to handle the nip slips from 1998-1999 from The Kat and Jacqueline. There may have been more, but I remember both of those. If they edit them, they may get "THIS WAS ADVERTISED AS UNEDITED AND YOU LIED!" and if they don't edit them ... yeah. And you know what WWE will respond with? Nothing, which is the same thing I would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yeah, this is something different than anything else they have to deal with. With Benoit at least there's the argument that can be made that editing him out affects the flow of several years worth of programs since it would create gaps in storylines. This was a one time event where a guy died on PPV, and to be honest if that didn't happen no one would be clamoring to watch it, since everything that happened prior was a paint by numbers late 90s WWF B show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Simple choice for me as I am just not going to watch Over the Edge even with the WWF title change later on show. I do not agree with it being made available but easy for me to just skip over it while watching other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I truly think the OTE stuff is just trolling. People trying to "catch" WWE to say "Ahah! I told you it wouldn't be completely unedited!". The people who truly want to watch it for unperverted means are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 If this was asked before, sorry.I did a search on Download and couldnt find this answer.. Will paying customers be able to capture hte videos they watch to local PC to watch or put on DVD for their own use if needed? I woudlnt pay for it if I couldnt do that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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