What are you watching?

[goodhelmet]

I answered the question in the same post.

[Mando]

I'm always two months behind on ROH TV. Was watching an episode the other day and was surprised to see Chikara mainstays 3.0 on a show. Reminded me I still haven't worked through the 2012 King of Trios in its entirety so am about to pop one of its six discs in.

 

3.0 and Akuma vs. The Batiri - Chikara King of Trios 2012 - Night One - 5

 

Batiri pre-match promo more frightening than any horror movie I've seen in ages. Akuma is as wanted as a case of herpes the week of school photos. Batiri get the toilet paper treatment like Jimmy Rave circa '06. Massive "3.0" chant -- haven't heard that since outside the offices of AOL in '95. Akuma is no replacement for El Generico but when life hands you lymons make Sprite, am I right? Some nice double-teams early in the opening stanza by 3.0. Kobald doing an Earthquake-style sitdown splash doesn't have the same visual pop considering he's maybe 140lbs. Kodama did a sloppy slingshot 'rana. Hard to buy Akuma's kick strength when we just saw Meiko Satomura in the opener dropping axe kicks on people's necks. Obariyon did this unreal leaping DDT off the top. Really digging Obariyon's knee-based offense, his reverse Go 2 Sleep where his knee blasted Akuma in the back of the head was a real highlight. Shane Matthews gets dropped faster than new sitcom The Goldbergs will from ABC's line-up. What's your dream trio? Offhand mine would be Pillman, 2 Cold Scorpio, and 2 Tuff Tony. Kobald wins with the "Demon's Toilet" a move, pun intended, that was truly shitty.

[cheapshot]

Yuki Ishikawa v Kazunari Murakami - BattlARTS 11/26/00

 

I think that this is the first time I have watched any BattlARTS and this was a fun match. It goes about 11 minutes in length and is full of stiff kicks and even stiffer punches by both guys.

I know that they try and promote this as a shoot, so it surprised me that the action spilled to the floor and into the front row for a minute or two; I would of thought that would shatter the illusion of it being a genuine shoot especially this being in the era of PRIDE etc. Not withstanding, I don't feel that took anything away from the match whatsoever and actually for me; made it more enjoyable.

 

It's my first exposure to both workers that I can recall. Kazunari Murakami played the stereotypical "shooter" role with the kickpads and stiff kicks. Ishikawa looked more of the part of the wrestler and delivered a number of stiff punches during the match that connected hard with Murakami.

 

In the end Ishikawa won via rear naked choke in a fine encounter. (***1/4)

 

I found this match via the Japanese 2000-2009 best matches spreadsheet that is being pimped out elsewhere on PWO.

[Sidebottom]

Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, Wrestlemania X. I wonder if wrestling will ever see the high pitched audiences again? Where it is mostly children cheering and chanting? "Let's go Bret..."

[Jimmy Redman]

Ever seen a Cena match?

 

Wow, that sounded a lot more dickish than I intended. But there are still screaming children crowds. Cena and the Hardyz come immediately to mind, although you'd technically have to include women in that group as well I guess.

[tim]

Yuki Ishikawa v Kazunari Murakami - BattlARTS 11/26/00

 

I think that this is the first time I have watched any BattlARTS and this was a fun match. It goes about 11 minutes in length and is full of stiff kicks and even stiffer punches by both guys.

I know that they try and promote this as a shoot, so it surprised me that the action spilled to the floor and into the front row for a minute or two; I would of thought that would shatter the illusion of it being a genuine shoot especially this being in the era of PRIDE etc. Not withstanding, I don't feel that took anything away from the match whatsoever and actually for me; made it more enjoyable.

 

It's my first exposure to both workers that I can recall. Kazunari Murakami played the stereotypical "shooter" role with the kickpads and stiff kicks. Ishikawa looked more of the part of the wrestler and delivered a number of stiff punches during the match that connected hard with Murakami.

 

In the end Ishikawa won via rear naked choke in a fine encounter. (***1/4)

 

I found this match via the Japanese 2000-2009 best matches spreadsheet that is being pimped out elsewhere on PWO.

This match will quite likely be in my top 25 for that. Good chance that will make me the high voter by a long shot, but man I loved it.

[Sidebottom]

Ever seen a Cena match?

 

Wow, that sounded a lot more dickish than I intended. But there are still screaming children crowds. Cena and the Hardyz come immediately to mind, although you'd technically have to include women in that group as well I guess.

Nowhere NEAR an early 90's WWE audience. The modern product you hear PLENTY of adults, all of the time. "Cena Sucks..." being the obvious rebuttal to your own suggestion.

[cheapshot]

Ever seen a Cena match?

 

Wow, that sounded a lot more dickish than I intended. But there are still screaming children crowds. Cena and the Hardyz come immediately to mind, although you'd technically have to include women in that group as well I guess.

Nowhere NEAR an early 90's WWE audience. The modern product you hear PLENTY of adults, all of the time. "Cena Sucks..." being the obvious rebuttal to your own suggestion.

 

Apples and pears. The crowd is mic'ed differently now compared to how it was in the early 90's, and also as we know crowd noise has been known to be added post production on some occasions over the years.

[goc]

Nothing compares to the Texas crowds I've seen during the prime of the Von Erich brothers. I've seen crowds that I could have almost believed were majority female, or at least 50/50.

[Jimmy Redman]

Ever seen a Cena match?

 

Wow, that sounded a lot more dickish than I intended. But there are still screaming children crowds. Cena and the Hardyz come immediately to mind, although you'd technically have to include women in that group as well I guess.

Nowhere NEAR an early 90's WWE audience. The modern product you hear PLENTY of adults, all of the time. "Cena Sucks..." being the obvious rebuttal to your own suggestion.

 

Yeah I don't think I read your initial post properly, missing the "mostly children" bit. I just meant that you can definitely still hear the kiddies these days. They love Cena, love the Hardyz, love Hornswoggle, etc.

 

There was a moment on NXT this week when Hunter was rattling off names of NXT stars to various levels of the usual cheers and boos, and then he said "Corey Graves" to a resounding chorus of female squealing and nothing else.

 

I find Graves to be astonishingly average, but when he makes the main roster he's going to be a big hit with women.

[Nighthawk]

I'm watching the Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money from Victory Road 2010. It's funny how much better this would have been if, for instance, Jim Cornette was around to give this some structure that it needs.

[Sidebottom]

Apples and pears. The crowd is mic'ed differently now compared to how it was in the early 90's, and also as we know crowd noise has been known to be added post production on some occasions over the years.

Are you for real? What on earth does being Mic'd different have to do with anything? Are they using microphones which only detect certain frequencies!? The taped Smackdown shows usually have canned audio but again, what is your point? I've been going to WWF/E shows since the late 80's, are you going to tell me my own ears are wrong as to what I've been hearing throughout the years too?

 

Mics.... Jeesh

[Jimmy Redman]

I'm watching the Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money from Victory Road 2010. It's funny how much better this would have been if, for instance, Jim Cornette was around to give this some structure that it needs.

I was really underwhelmed by that when I watched it too, I thought I was the only one.

 

The good news is that it is the worst part of their feud, from vague memory all the Best of 5 matches are good, and the 2/3 Falls final is excellent.

[Nighthawk]

I'm watching the Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money from Victory Road 2010. It's funny how much better this would have been if, for instance, Jim Cornette was around to give this some structure that it needs.

I was really underwhelmed by that when I watched it too, I thought I was the only one.

 

The good news is that it is the worst part of their feud, from vague memory all the Best of 5 matches are good, and the 2/3 Falls final is excellent.

 

I'm going to look those up. Because, quite frankly, the Guns give me a vibe like they wanted to be a really slick tag team. And against Beer Money, who are these roughhouse brawling guys, it really works. It's the tag version of Whitaker vs Chavez.

[shoe]

02-25 1990 OLE/ARN ANDERSON vs TOMMY RICH/RANGER ROSS - NO FINISH SHOWN MAIN EVENT

 

It says no finish shown, but we see Arn give Ranger Ross a sloppy spinebuster and it ends but I bet that is the finish. I would say this is a top 10 tag match for the promotion during the year. This says a lot because their was a lot of great tag matches that year in WCW. The crowd was molten and Tommy Rich was being treated like it was 1982 in Georgia. This is tremendous and an all action 10 minute match. We get a nice shine to start. Eventually they put Ranger Ross in FIP and they just destroy the arm. Just some great tag working on the Anderson's with blocking and the arm work. Ross gets the hot tag to Rich and he's awesome in the hot tag, and eventually gets cut off and they work him over and Rich is great at the hope spots and his fire. He gets the tag to Ross and we work to the finish where the cream rises to the top. I loved this bout.

[Mando]

Outside of keeping up with weekly wrestling/MMA TV I've been working through a stack of discs watching a match or two off one then rotating to the next. Just finished this:

 

Pondo & Rotten vs. Team Underground

Man Man Pondo and Ian Rotten vs. Team Underground (Eric Priest and Chandlure McClure) - IWA-MS Hurt 3/24/06 - 2

 

Pondo has a physique that looks like he eats strictly fast food and sticks of butter. Backstory is that Ian and Pondo are usually rivals but due to an Axl Rotten "no show" the previous event (something about him being a missing person) they teamed together and won tag gold. Their opponents look like two guys that work at the local Planet Fitness but with their generic black trunks and bland personalities make about as a big a splash as the turd Scott Hall dropped in Sunny's pomegranate martini. Ian gets on the microphone pre-match and pleads to his opponents that they don't hit him in the head. So stupid. Why make a gentlemen's agreement with Ian fu*king Rotten? The guy that looks like every scumbag meth head hiding from the cold behind a Baja Fresh up I-75. And it makes Ian, the co. owner, look like an even bigger ego stroker, that he can compete while hurt yet simultaneously weak for asking for sympathy. Match itself is lousy shit. Some tepid exchanging of wristlocks and armbars early. Nobody looks particularly comfortable feigning faux-combat. Then they brawl in the crowd with some weak shots in the steel bleachers. Rotten also comes off even worse as he doesn't sell or register any of the forearms or other offense these guys are hitting him with. He's consistently got his return shot on standby doing weak body jabs or nut taps instead of acknowledging their attacks. The match that preceded this has a very young Ricochet with bad fluffy Prince hair busting out some top-shelf aerobatics that puts this to shame by a wide margin. Finish comes when Pondo gets disqualified for using his trademark stop sign. This was after like 6 min. of "work". I would say they didn't do enough to earn a paycheck that night but let's be honest Ian wasn't paying anybody cash after this, he may have returned Hardcore Craig's porn he borrowed, but no payouts.

[Matt D]

It didn't get bumped since I triple posted before and just edited it in, but the Aug 2, 1980 Rose/Wiskowski vs Piper/Martel 2/3 falls tag match for the vacant Portland belts is just a phenomenal match.

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...t&p=5565808

[Dylan Waco]

Best match from anywhere in the world that year

[bradhindsight]

Warrior/Savage cage match from MSG 1/21/91 -

 

Post Rumble match where Warrior goes ballistic on Savage after previously costing him the title. Interesting finish with Savage halfway down the outside of the cage when Warrior stops him, slowly dragging him up by the hair rung by rung until Sherri gets involved and Savage actually drops for the win. Warrior ends up stripping Sherri down and after Savage saves they have a pretty awesome pull apart sequence where it takes eight guys to stop the Warrior from wailing on Savage. Definitely advanced things towards the Mania match.

[Matt D]

That's a match where you see just how amazing and capable Sherri was in her role. It's almost a vacuum without her. With her, it's a little unsettling, mind you.

[bradhindsight]

That's a match where you see just how amazing and capable Sherri was in her role. It's almost a vacuum without her. With her, it's a little unsettling, mind you.

You bet. I left out that Sherri hits him with the scepter so everyone leaves the cage but of course she's last and then Warrior grabs her and hits her with a big gorilla press slam (and he struggled a bit being the end of the match I guess ).

 

Another cool part of this match is after Savage's introduction, he races out of the cage and slides next to the entrance ramp so he can hide and surprise Warrior. Was awesome.

[Matt D]

Another amazing Rose vs. Martel match that I edited into my triple post. Portland is just too good. I don't deserve how good it is: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...t&p=5565810.

[Matt D]

Caught the Neville/Graves/Regal vs Wyatts match from the Jul 10 NXT. It falls apart at the end with Regal's clearing house and interactions with Harper not looking nearly as good as it ought to have but the early shine and long heat on Neville are both really good. It's easily the best I've seen Rowan. He looked actively pretty good at parts which makes me think his biggest problem is knowing what to do in brawls and random attacks. FIP with flashy hope spots is a pretty good role for Neville too.

[Exposer]

I would honestly love to read more about what I watched tonight (the Satanico match)because I know there had to be a lot of nuance I was missing for this to be considered so strong a match and I do want to understand it, not just dismiss it due to my ignorance even if I tried to dissect it.

I have a big write-up in the back-up thread here but I'll give you something to think about.

 

There is a narrative in the match. Satanico is the rudo. He starts off really relaxed and confident. Then he begins to get frustrated. The turning point of the match is Cochise kneeing him in the back after the handshake at the start of the third fall. You have to understand that in lucha that's a pretty fucked up thing to do. Satanico was offering a handshake. Maybe Satanico was fucking with Cochise on the onset of the handshake but it doesn't matter. Cochise pulled a dirty tactic over on Satanico in a lucha title match. That's a no no. The fans are audibly appalled at Cochise. It's a total character reversal. Satanico becomes the underdog and pretty much the technico.

 

You have to watch this match by focusing on the roles from each guy and how they change throughout the match. Watch Satanico's expressions and mannerisms. Watch how they change throughout the match. Pay attention to the crowd's reaction after the knee to the back. This match isn't really about how one move or thing leads to another in a logical progression. It's about role reversals and changes in character emotions (That I think progress in a logical way mind you). Satanico goes from being relaxed in the first fall, frustrated in the second fall, and desperate in the third fall. That's incredible storytelling.

 

Also, I watched this match not remembering there was a previous title change and having no knowledge of this feud prior to watching this match. I came in pretty clean. After the match I understood what I watched and I didn't find it at all hard to grasp. You have to pay attention to the right things in lucha but I don't think they're that hard to find. If you don't focus on those things than it will be hard to like a lot of lucha.

[Gregor]

I agree with a lot of your description of the match, but I don't think Satanico became anything like a tecnico in the third fall. He was the one who was borderline fouling Cochisse (with that hold where he had his elbow in Cochisse's groin) and arguing with the referee after a two-count. Nothing Cochisse did in that fall seemed particularly unbecoming of a tecnico, either, especially given the way Satanico had worked him over in the previous fall and ignored Cochisse's request for a handshake at the start of the match. Kneeing Satanico off the handshake wasn't clean, but the announcer and the crowd had doubted the sincerity of the offer right along with Cochisse.