WON HoF Candidate Poll Thread

[FLIK]

Things turned around positively when he was on top. We can point to their problems now, but many of those problems are related to technological changes and the fact that they are carpet bombing the market with product.

Of course there's lots of other factors besides Cena being on top that have caused the decline, but hey there's lots of other reasons WCW didn't draw well with Sting on top too

 

But yeah, it shouldn't be underestimated that over pushing Cena for so long is atleast one significant factor in turning off a portion of the fan base. Tanahashi has a bit of backlash as well, as does most any wrestler who stays on top for a while but Tanahashi's is more "we like this other wrestler more now & wanna pay to see him kick your ass & beat you for the belt" as opposed to Cena's "we're just plain fucking sick of seeing you, please get injured so we can have a break.....awww shit, you're injured and still all over the damn tv, click to another channel".

[Dylan Waco]

Things turned around positively when he was on top. We can point to their problems now, but many of those problems are related to technological changes and the fact that they are carpet bombing the market with product.

Of course there's lots of other factors besides Cena being on top that have caused the decline, but hey there's lots of other reasons WCW didn't draw well with Sting on top too

 

But yeah, it shouldn't be underestimated that over pushing Cena for so long is atleast one significant factor in turning off a portion of the fan base. Tanahashi has a bit of backlash as well, as does most any wrestler who stays on top for a while but Tanahashi's is more "we like this other wrestler more now & wanna pay to see him kick your ass & beat you for the belt" as opposed to Cena's "we're just plain fucking sick of seeing you, please get injured so we can have a break.....awww shit, you're injured and still all over the damn tv, click to another channel".

 

I think this is really overstated and anecdotal. They just sold out a stadium with 70k seats in fifteen minutes - with Cena as there ace. Sting couldn't get 5k to the Omni. More later.

[FLIK]

Point isn't so much about the fans that do come not liking Cena, it's about the ones that used to be fans being turned off of the product

 

and on a side note note I'm currently debating the merits of Patera and The High Flyers with Dave on the f4w board.

which thread?

[kjh]

They just sold out a stadium with 70k seats in fifteen minutes - with Cena as there ace.

On a WrestleMania in New York expected to feature The Rock, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker and Triple H. He's not a turn off to the extent FLIK suggested, but it's not like he drew that crowd on his own.

[NintendoLogic]

Peep this chart:

 

 

There was a significant uptick in PPV business during Cena's first year on top (though it should be noted that WWE ran 15 PPVs that year). But buys declined every single year after that before rebounding in 2011 thanks to Rock. Cena isn't the primary cause of the rot at the heart of WWE, and they'd be much worse off without him. But he's become part of the problem. WWE right now is like an aging NFL team that keeps trading away draft picks so it can make one last run.

[EricR]

Any chance you can CnP your Patera/High Flyers debate from F4W for those of us without subs?

[Ricky Jackson]

I second that request.

[Dylan Waco]

They just sold out a stadium with 70k seats in fifteen minutes - with Cena as there ace.

On a WrestleMania in New York expected to feature The Rock, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker and Triple H. He's not a turn off to the extent FLIK suggested, but it's not like he drew that crowd on his own.

 

Exactly one name on that list is a bigger draw than Cena and that guy is one of the biggest draws in wrestling history.

 

I was exaggerating, but the point is that the talk of the company in steep decline is even more exaggerated.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Peep this chart:

 

 

There was a significant uptick in PPV business during Cena's first year on top (though it should be noted that WWE ran 15 PPVs that year). But buys declined every single year after that before rebounding in 2011 thanks to Rock. Cena isn't the primary cause of the rot at the heart of WWE, and they'd be much worse off without him. But he's become part of the problem. WWE right now is like an aging NFL team that keeps trading away draft picks so it can make one last run.

I'd imagine one should also factor in the economic downturn over the same course of time.

[Dylan Waco]

Or the fact that the prices went up and it is insanely easy to steal them in real time now.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Or the fact that the prices went up and it is insanely easy to steal them in real time now.

Shit, I'm backwards. I was stealing them online live in 2005, and now that the prices have gone up and the economy stinks I buy them.

 

(I figure, shit. I like it and why not treat myself once a month to watch on a big screen TV and not a computer screen?)

[NintendoLogic]

I was exaggerating, but the point is that the talk of the company in steep decline is even more exaggerated.

Not a steep decline. A slow steady one.

 

I'd imagine one should also factor in the economic downturn over the same course of time.

Or the fact that the prices went up and it is insanely easy to steal them in real time now.

None of which were serious issues for UFC until they started oversaturating the market and running too many weak cards. It's almost as if there's a lesson of some sort that can be drawn from this.

[Dylan Waco]

UFC is a drastically different product regardless of what some people want to believe.

 

I'm not saying their buyrates couldn't be better, but they will never be consistently good again, no matter how hot the product is.

[Johnny Sorrow]

UFC is a drastically different product regardless of what some people want to believe.

I do know some people who were wrestling fans as teens during the Attitude era who grew up and got into real fights, sure. But most UFC fans I know don't like it cause they got tired of wrestling. Most like it cause they're tired of boxing.

[sek69]

The shitfit-throwing on THE BOARD~! over the HOF results has been quite amusing. People are upset that Cena got in, despite he's been the ace of the #1 company in the world for quite a while to the point they live and die based on his presence.

[FLIK]

UFC is a drastically different product regardless of what some people want to believe.

Well yeah but the point was that UFC ppvs are just as exspensive as WWE's & just as easy to steal but they still got great numbers.

[Bix]

UFC is a drastically different product regardless of what some people want to believe.

Well yeah but the point was that UFC ppvs are just as exspensive as WWE's & just as easy to steal but they still got great numbers.

 

UFC is a live sporting event. WWE PPVs are weird premium episodes of a TV show.

[Cox]

The shitfit-throwing on THE BOARD~! over the HOF results has been quite amusing. People are upset that Cena got in, despite he's been the ace of the #1 company in the world for quite a while to the point they live and die based on his presence.

The only obvious mark against Cena is that it is WAY too early to start discussing his career as a HOFer, but that is true of literally everybody when they first hit the ballot, so as long as this is the dumbass criteria Dave insists on, Cena belongs.

[NintendoLogic]

UFC PPVs are also premium episodes of a TV show.

[Victator]

UFC buyrates are steadily decreasing too.

[Dylan Waco]

UFC PPVs are also premium episodes of a TV show.

In many ways this is true now.

 

At the height of the popularity they were promoted as major deals/once and a lifetime type of events. I don't think the nature of wrestling's highly saturated tv market allows for that to be done nearly as well.

[Matt D]

Kevin Sullivan isn't in the HOF.

I was curious if one could make the argument as someone in there for what he did in WCW, though since my question was about finding supplementary evidence, obviously not.

[goc]

I'll put it this way. This may be a bold statement, but ... NO ONE deserves to go in the WON HOF solely for what they accomplished in WCW. I can't think of a single person who is in primarily for their time in WCW, come to think of it.

I tried to come up with something to counter this but I couldn't. I had never thought about this before but it's probably true.

[Al]

The closest guy is Vader, but he probably isn't a Hall of Famer without his accomplishments in Japan.

[JerryvonKramer]

When is "WCW" starting from? 1988 or 1991?