Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[tomk]

Not sure how you reach the conclusion that WWE would be negotiating contracts through the NFLPA.

 

This is how I see the meeting going:

 

JR: We'd like to explore the possibilities of recruiting ex-NFL players to become professional wrestlers.

 

NFLPA mid-level guy: Cool. Do you have a card? We'll send a few guys your way if they're interested.

 

JR: Sure. Here you go.

 

NFLPA mid-level guy: (puts card in his wallet along with 100 other business cards). So tell me, is wrestling real or fake? Do they actually hit each other with chairs? Is that fake blood?

 

---------------------------

 

I imagine Ross got a giant erection when an actual representative from the NFLPA accepted his meeting. I'm sure he felt the need to blow it up like the second-coming of Christ.

Yeah that's kind of what I was picturing too.

[Mad Dog]

I think there are some benefits to the NFL in this. There's some longterm PR if guys have something they can fall back on after football ends. Fewer stories of guys going broke after football on ESPN and all that.

[tomk]

Cause that good wrestling money will keep ex-football players from going broke

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I can't see anything positive coming out of a partnership like this for the NFL.

[Loss]

Pulling random discs and watching things on various yearbooks. So far today, in addition to a few random promos and matches I've sort of half-watched, I've really focused on these three:

 

* Ric Flair vs Bobby Eaton (NWA Main Event 01/07/90)

* Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 07/29/93)

* Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue (AJPW 07/24/96)

 

I liked Flair/Eaton more than ever. And if my thoughts on Hansen/Kobashi and Kobashi/Taue are any indication, I think rewatching is going to produce a completely different set of favorite matches than I ended up with the first time around. Hansen/Kobashi did less for me on a rewatch than I expected, considering that was my MOTY for 1993. Still a great match, but it was missing a wow factor for me to take it over the top.

[Loss]

Just for the sake of thinking outside the box, it would be nice to see WWE (and more specifically Jim Ross) recognize the merits of sports other than football. It would be interesting to see how talent in baseball, basketball, tennis, swimming or hockey translates to wrestling.

[soup23]

Nice set of matches.

 

That Eaton vs. Flair match really is a match that resonates with me. I think it is not well known but I certainly think one of the 2-3 best tv matches in WWF/WCW between 1990 and the 1994 yearbook. It also is a great match of "what could have been" with Flair still looking like the quiessential man and Eaton showing he could have really been at the least a great upper mid card singles guy that should have had lots of chances to shine in 1991 after Lane/Cornette bolted.

 

Interesting that you were lower on Kobashi/Hansen. I have seen that match around 10 times and still think it is utterly fantastic and at worst the 3rd match of 1993. I also figured it would work better for most on a rewatch style based on the type of match it was.

 

Haven't seen Taue vs. Kobashi in a while but am looking forward to it when I get to 1996 considering I am really starting to contemplate Kobashi as the GOAT based on the stuff I have rewatched of him.

[NintendoLogic]

That's funny. I also rewatched Hansen/Kobashi recently, and I liked it more than ever. A match I didn't like quite as much on recent viewing is Hokuto/Kandori. It's still one of my favorite matches, but it used to be in my all-time top 5. Now I don't know if it'd be in my top 10.

[Loss]

It's something that we've discussed before on the board, and it's something that was recently mentioned again in Dave's bio of Kobashi, but his card placement and won/loss record is distracting for me sometimes, even when the work in the ring is great. I am a fan of slow climbs to the top, but I think the way Kobashi was booked in his early years is too extreme an example of that. You could argue that being true of most wrestling, so it's not a sharp criticism. It's just that I don't understand how exactly Kobashi managed to get the crowd to buy nearfalls in his singles matches against top wrestlers like Jumbo and Hansen as early 1990 despite his extended losing streak.

[Tim Evans]

 

Loved this match that aired on Monterrey TV this weekend. It features a guy dressed up like Spongebob Square pants teaming with his best friend Patrick vs heel Buzz Lightyear. Best thing about it is they play it straight and it's actually quite decent. Rudo Buzz is the best.

[WingedEagle]

It's something that we've discussed before on the board, and it's something that was recently mentioned again in Dave's bio of Kobashi, but his card placement and won/loss record is distracting for me sometimes, even when the work in the ring is great. I am a fan of slow climbs to the top, but I think the way Kobashi was booked in his early years is too extreme an example of that. You could argue that being true of most wrestling, so it's not a sharp criticism. It's just that I don't understand how exactly Kobashi managed to get the crowd to buy nearfalls in his singles matches against top wrestlers like Jumbo and Hansen as early 1990 despite his extended losing streak.

I've always considered Kobashi one of the best ever, if not the best, at using his facials and body language to dictate and control emotions. The way he'd crawl or hobble around while taking a beating but not going down, the fist pump before the moonsault, the ability to withstand a ridiculous amount of punishment before finally losing a fall, he had such a unique charisma that got people behind him unlike just about anyone else booked the way he was.

[S.L.L.]

You're extrapolating an argument I'm not making from my post. I never accused anyone of saying that athletic credentials alone lead to stardom. You said that Angle has been pushed and treated like a star because promoters are insecure and seek the validation his presence provides. I'm saying that his athletic background is a miniscule factor at best. It probably helped him get his foot in the door, but it's not the reason he's been a main eventer for over a decade.

Why do you think he was pushed as a main event star after '04 or so? I think it wasn't entirely due to his amateur background reassuring carnies, but I think it gave him a definite boost that wrestlers of comparable or even better value did not have.

[NintendoLogic]

You're extrapolating an argument I'm not making from my post. I never accused anyone of saying that athletic credentials alone lead to stardom. You said that Angle has been pushed and treated like a star because promoters are insecure and seek the validation his presence provides. I'm saying that his athletic background is a miniscule factor at best. It probably helped him get his foot in the door, but it's not the reason he's been a main eventer for over a decade.

Why do you think he was pushed as a main event star after '04 or so? I think it wasn't entirely due to his amateur background reassuring carnies, but I think it gave him a definite boost that wrestlers of comparable or even better value did not have.

 

I think decision-makers in WWE and TNA genuinely thought he was a great worker who was consistently over. You may think that other wrestlers would have done as well or better in his position from a work and/or drawing standpoint, and you may be right. But it's not like promoters and bookers are infallible judges of quality.

[fishbaugh]

Just for the sake of thinking outside the box, it would be nice to see WWE (and more specifically Jim Ross) recognize the merits of sports other than football. It would be interesting to see how talent in baseball, basketball, tennis, swimming or hockey translates to wrestling.

Growing up, Stephan Edberg (his serve-and-volley style was so reckless it caused a ref to legit die!), Brett Butler (turned heel on my beloved San Francisco Giants by switching sides and joining the LA Dodgers during his prime), and John Stockton (known for his cheating ways when the refs weren't looking) got more heat from me than any heels pro wrestling was offering. Marty McSorely would have made a great douchebag heel too. Has ever been a more pure babyface than Hakeem 'The Dream' Olajuwon? When I'm reading through old Observers I keep expecting to read about how Conners and McEnroe are more pro wrestling than pro wrestling!

[Al]

I often wonder why WWE hasn't looked to sports figures for inspiration. MVP seems like such a natural heel character. The overpaid, primadonna athlete.

[fishbaugh]

I often wonder why WWE hasn't looked to sports figures for inspiration. MVP seems like such a natural heel character. The overpaid, primadonna athlete.

I always thought that MVP was a direct TO ripoff.

 

Too bad the steroids issue makes it a non-starter, but a Barry Bonds-like wrestler would be golden.

 

In the real world, Lance Armstrong's career is over -- in wrestling he would just be beginning his hottest run ever!

 

I remember watching the last Winter Olympics and NBC had these video packages for 2 male figure skaters -- one was handsome and was training in Hollywood or whatever. He had this huge and well-lit training facility, and every question they asked him made him out to be the ultimate smarmy fuck. There other guy was shown in these dark, underground training facilities throwing around a dirty medicine ball with like 7 foot ceilings. All the questions they asked him made him out to be the most hard-scrabble, underdog babyface you've ever seen. It was such a pro wrestling build that I mentioned it to my wife. She responded with "I doubt they were copying wrestling" and I remembered that not everyone reads that kind of shit into everything they watch!

[S.L.L.]

You're extrapolating an argument I'm not making from my post. I never accused anyone of saying that athletic credentials alone lead to stardom. You said that Angle has been pushed and treated like a star because promoters are insecure and seek the validation his presence provides. I'm saying that his athletic background is a miniscule factor at best. It probably helped him get his foot in the door, but it's not the reason he's been a main eventer for over a decade.

Why do you think he was pushed as a main event star after '04 or so? I think it wasn't entirely due to his amateur background reassuring carnies, but I think it gave him a definite boost that wrestlers of comparable or even better value did not have.

 

I think decision-makers in WWE and TNA genuinely thought he was a great worker who was consistently over. You may think that other wrestlers would have done as well or better in his position from a work and/or drawing standpoint, and you may be right. But it's not like promoters and bookers are infallible judges of quality.

 

Very true. I would, however, argue that they are not arbitrary judges of quality. What do you think motivated their judgement? I distinctly remember a ton of fawning over his work in and around the industry from very early in his run and continuing well after he stopped having any demonstrated value beyond being a name guy. Where did that come from? Again, I'm not saying he did nothing to earn it on his own, but am I really supposed to believe that it was pure coincidence that the guy who got this treatment was an Olympic gold medalist, that that only served to "help him get his foot in the door"?

[KrisZ]

FUCKING GANGSTA

 

[rovert]

CHIKARA are seemingly about to do something really ambitious these two blogs explain things better than I could:

http://olewrestling.com/chikara-wrestling/...-to-be-huge.htm

http://olewrestling.com/chikara-wrestling/...hibald-peck.htm

[Chess Knight]

I want to start this off by saying that Archibald Peck is not "dead." After his match against Eddie Kingston the crowd chanted "You Killed Archie" and Eddie Kingston took credit for doing so, but he did not do this. Instead, he sent Archie back through time.

why....why?

[Eduardo]

Santino opening up Battle Arts Academy:

 

http://www.battleartsacademy.com/

[NintendoLogic]

You're extrapolating an argument I'm not making from my post. I never accused anyone of saying that athletic credentials alone lead to stardom. You said that Angle has been pushed and treated like a star because promoters are insecure and seek the validation his presence provides. I'm saying that his athletic background is a miniscule factor at best. It probably helped him get his foot in the door, but it's not the reason he's been a main eventer for over a decade.

Why do you think he was pushed as a main event star after '04 or so? I think it wasn't entirely due to his amateur background reassuring carnies, but I think it gave him a definite boost that wrestlers of comparable or even better value did not have.

 

I think decision-makers in WWE and TNA genuinely thought he was a great worker who was consistently over. You may think that other wrestlers would have done as well or better in his position from a work and/or drawing standpoint, and you may be right. But it's not like promoters and bookers are infallible judges of quality.

 

Very true. I would, however, argue that they are not arbitrary judges of quality. What do you think motivated their judgement? I distinctly remember a ton of fawning over his work in and around the industry from very early in his run and continuing well after he stopped having any demonstrated value beyond being a name guy. Where did that come from? Again, I'm not saying he did nothing to earn it on his own, but am I really supposed to believe that it was pure coincidence that the guy who got this treatment was an Olympic gold medalist, that that only served to "help him get his foot in the door"?

 

It seems that the main point of contention is whether Angle ceased to have any demonstrated value beyond a certain point. I mean, it wasn't like he wrestled like Jimmy Valiant. You and I may not care for the go-go-go workrate style, but that viewpoint is a minority one among those in and around the industry. For the most part, people praising Angle's work also praised the work of similar workers like Manami Toyota. I think the main value of his Olympic background was to overcome the prejudice that his size would have otherwise engendered.

[Death From Above]

Just for the sake of thinking outside the box, it would be nice to see WWE (and more specifically Jim Ross) recognize the merits of sports other than football. It would be interesting to see how talent in baseball, basketball, tennis, swimming or hockey translates to wrestling.

WWE would just stereotype it and have it come out retarded, like The Goon.

[Jimmy Redman]

They do OK referencing Cesaro's "rugby background" and how that makes him aggressive in the ring. The thigh wraps aren't really OTT or gimmicky at all. Of course that is JBL's influence in repping his favourite sport, just like JR did. Unless that counts as football but I assume you meant American Football.

 

For a different one, they do push Gabriel as an extreme sports nut and link it to his high-risk in-ring style.

[rovert]

Don't want to trivialise a crime given the impact on the victim but doesn't this seemingly confirm most people's thoughts/gut instinct on the guy:

Longtime AWA pro wrestler and Buck "Rock & Roll" Zumhofe was arrested in

Kandiyohi County, Minnesota on Monday and is facing 12 criminal

sexual conduct charges having to do with allegations from his daughter that he had molested her repeatedly.

 

Zumhofe is charged with sexual crimes when she was between the ages of 15 and 18 and is being held on $500,000 unconditional bond and $100,000 conditional bond on not having contact with the victim.

 

County Attorney Jennifer Fischer, who explained the gruesome nature of the complaint by his daughter, now 29, who came to authorities in March, said the goal is to put Zumhofe away for the rest of his life.