Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[Dooley]

But people go to wrestling shows to feel like they're part of the TV show they watch at home. Whether it's chanting, counting along with the ten punches in the corner , singing along with Rock's catchphrases or Hogan's offense or what have you . I agree that it's annoying as a home viewer sometimes and the "What?" craze almost pushed me over the edge but ultimately it's people who have spent their money to go and have a good time.

 

Come to think of it, it's not just wrestling. I remember when Stephen Colbert came to the Vancouver Olympics, the crowd broke into all sorts of chants to the point where Colbert joked that they were chant whores. Which of course led to a "chant whores" chant.

[Loss]

As much as I hate it, I still think one of the key things in wrestling's late 90s resurgence was brightening the lights in the arena and giving fans in attendance an opportunity to be on television. I hate it aesthetically, but it's something both the WWF and WCW encouraged among ticket buyers, and it's why some of that stuff still lingers today. I do think it's one of a zillion factors that eventually made it much harder for wrestlers to get heat. There is an interesting column about all of this for sure.

 

"What?" falls in there somewhere too.

[The Chief]

So between making it cool to cheer heels and the "what?" stuff, is it safe to say Steve Austin is the worst thing to happen to the wrestling business? :-)

[El-P]

"What ?" is the worst chant ever. I can live with goofy chants like "It's awesome" and such although it's ridiculous, I actually like post-WM crowds hichtjacking the show (with often hilarious results), but "What ?" is absolutely driving me crazy. In 2014 still ? Really ?

 

Some of the worst crowds ever were he Attitude Era crowds when the sign craze got out of hands, people weren't there to watch the show anymore but to show their signs on TV. Plus I don't even know how you could watch the show in the buildings with all these giant signs everywhere.

[JerryvonKramer]

But people go to wrestling shows to feel like they're part of the TV show they watch at home. Whether it's chanting, counting along with the ten punches in the corner , singing along with Rock's catchphrases or Hogan's offense or what have you . I agree that it's annoying as a home viewer sometimes and the "What?" craze almost pushed me over the edge but ultimately it's people who have spent their money to go and have a good time.

Just hate the level of self-awareness of it all though.

 

That's why I loved the Undertaker moment at this past WM, it caught that crowd on the hop and they weren't thinking "we're part of the show", they were genuinely stunned like proper marks.

 

I guess I'm just lamenting the death of Kayfabe ultimately. I think wrestling needs -- and I'm serious -- MORE KIDS in attendance willing and able to be proper marks. It has a cumulative effect because the parents will want to join in too. And maybe the crowds could do with more old women. Ultimately, my dream scenario would be for Cena to get a Hogan in 87 reaction with no weirdness at all.

 

I didn't like the "Whole world in his hands" thing during the Wyatt match at WM.

[El-P]

In other words, post-modern pro-wrestling really doesn't work.

[Dooley]

Going to a wrestling show is like going to a rock concert these days. You pay your ticket to go in and sing along with the stuff you see/hear at home. People are forking over their hard-earned dough and having fun, it seems trivial to hate on them for not viewing it through the exact same aesthetic prism you are.

 

It reminds me of an indy show I went to in Vancouver. There were a couple of hundred people there max. Me and my buddy went, had more than a couple of beers and were heckling the heels. Almost literally got into a fistfight with a self-righteous smark who said I "wasn't enjoying it right". Found out later the guy ran his own wrestling website. SHOCKER~!

 

I also don't understand the hate for the Attitude-era crowds. People bought more tickets and wanted to experience those shows than in any time in history. But because not everyone was an uber-smark and just went to have some fun, they get shit on. It's a very narrow view of wrestling fandom.

 

 

 

In other words, post-modern pro-wrestling really doesn't work.

 

Please expand on this thought.

[BillThompson]

Actually, it's the uber smarks that we're shitting on in this thread so far. People who go and enjoy the wrestling being presented to them are okay by me, they are fans of wrestling. People who go and chant to put themselves over and really don't care about what happens in the ring aren't okay by me, they are fans of themselves and not the product. The latter are the smart marks, or smart crowds, who I think are bad for those who actually want to enjoy themselves at a wrestling show.

[El-P]

 

 

 

In other words, post-modern pro-wrestling really doesn't work.

 

Please expand on this thought.

 

Pro-wrestling needs heat to work. You can't get heat if you're winking at your audience. The fact that HHH was kinda trolling the smarks during the WM build was still a small detail in the grand scheme of things, as the brunt of the feud was a classic evil authority trying to keep the brave babyface down storyline, and there was nothing meta about it.

 

Also, you can't pretend to have a critical or analytical point of view on pro-wrestling through pro-wrestling (like post-modern horror movies do on basic horror movies, or post-modern western movies do on classic western movies etc...) because… well…. pro-wrestling isn't an art. (running to the hills in fear)

[BillThompson]

Watched One Night Only last night, that's the best PPV no one ever talks about, right?

[Sidebottom]

Watched One Night Only last night, that's the best PPV no one ever talks about, right?

 

The 1997 UK event? I think it gets a fair bit of attention.

 

The conclusion to the main event shocked me at the time as a teenager. The Bulldog simply couldn't lose in England!?!? It was mental. The idea was to set up the rematch in 1998 in the UK but obviously neither was wrestling in the WWF at that point.

 

Elsewhere, Bret and Undertaker had a fantastic match with albeit a lame ending. Other than these two crackers, I can't remember anything else of note unless I'm mistaken.

[BillThompson]

Boricuas/Headbangers was really good, and probably the best match of the Bangers careers. Vader/Owen is a really great match, about on par with the main. Dude/Triple H is the match of the night and the best comedy match I think WWF has ever provided. Top to bottom it's a great card, with there being only two subpar matches. Maybe people do talk about it a lot, but I've never heard, or read, that talk.

[Strummer]

Poor Renee. I guess there are a bunch of Shield fan girls on twitter hating on her because she is going out with Ambrose

[cheapshot]

I tried to watch Impact last night. I really tried but I lasted less than 10 minutes. Robbie E running away scared of balloons attached to his trunks was just cringeworthy.

[Dooley]

Actually, it's the uber smarks that we're shitting on in this thread so far. People who go and enjoy the wrestling being presented to them are okay by me, they are fans of wrestling. People who go and chant to put themselves over and really don't care about what happens in the ring aren't okay by me, they are fans of themselves and not the product. The latter are the smart marks, or smart crowds, who I think are bad for those who actually want to enjoy themselves at a wrestling show.

 

Th Attitude era crowds were uber-smarks? We may be using the term differently. Anyone who accuses someone else of trying to "get themselves over" at a show is 10X more smarky (and annoying) than someone who goes, has a few beers, brings a sign and looks for a chance to yell "THIS IS AWESOME clap-clap-clap".

 

 

 

Pro-wrestling needs heat to work. You can't get heat if you're winking at your audience.

 

Hasn't pro wrestling always winked at its audience though? Everyone (for the most part) has always known it's not on the level but they go and enjoy it anyways. Is there really even such a thing as genuine heat in 2014? Like Heenan once said, "it's like a magician that shown everyone how his tricks work". People go to shows now to have fun and cheer for the personalities they enjoy, and boo the ones they don't. Not because they want good guy John Cena to extract revenge on the evil Brock Lesnar for his heinous actions (or what have you).

[Loss]

The main event of this year's Wrestlemania was built on that good guy extracting revenge on the evil one thing.

[JerryvonKramer]

I don't think that wrestling has "always winked" at its audience. Not at all.

[Dooley]

The main event of this year's Wrestlemania was built on that good guy extracting revenge on the evil one thing.

 

But people don't buy into it. They go because Wrestlemania's fun and in that particular case, people like chanting "YES!". Not because they think the good guy is actually going to beat up an evil-doer.

 

 

 

I don't think that wrestling has "always winked" at its audience. Not at all.

 

Seriously? Going back to Gorgeous George and even further back, pro wrestling has always hand a "wink/nudge" relationship with its audience.

[Coffey]

 

Is there really even such a thing as genuine heat in 2014?

 

 

Well, there could be. The problem a lot of the times seems to be with the performers themselves. No one seems to genuinely want to be a real heel anymore. No one wants to get screamed at, spit on & have fans want to assault them. They do spots that get pops, they tell jokes that make people laugh, they have entrance music that makes people stand up and sing and dance and clap and cheer. No one goes out there & just wants people to fucking hate them anymore.

 

Nowadays the only heels that really work, where people actually dislike them, are when they suck. But if you go out & purposely suck, you're not going to last for very long.

 

In a PG environment, of a publicly traded company, that intertwined with social media, how do you get over as a heel where everyone hates you? You can't have merchandise. You can't have toys. You can't have cartoons. You can't have a Twitter account. A lot of that means leaving money on the table. At the end of the day, it's a job. Who is going to do that?

[JerryvonKramer]

My impression watching lots of old cards from all over the territories is that, while there might be some nonsense here and there, once you get to the main event it's all seriousness and business.

 

There's absolutely no sense of "wink wink this isn't really real".

 

I watched the DiBiase piledriver angle recently from Georgia when he ends up in a neck brace in hospital after the Freebirds give him five piledrivers. I didn't get a lot of "winking" from it.

 

The impression I get from a guy like Bob Backlund is that he'd actually punch you in the face if you suggested that wrestling *wink wink* wasn't real.

 

Guys like Bill Watts and Verne might have broken your leg.

 

I'm not sure how much there's any real "nudge nudge" there. Maybe others can speak to this. I haven't really watched a lot of Gorgeous George to be honest.

[Dooley]

There's absolutely no sense of "wink wink this isn't really real".

 

Really? Guys who wear masks or face paint, or are savages from distant islands or jungles, or evil foreigners who compete strictly to spite America (or wherever you're from), or glamour boys who insist on the ring being sprayed with perfume before competing....who ALL magically seem to bounce off the ropes, all of that screams real to you?

 

Pro wrestling's always been kind of absurd, That's half the fun of it.

[cm funk]

"THIS IS AWESOME" and "HOLY SHIT" chants in WWE are still pretty rare and generally reserved for truely awesome matches and holy shit moments. It's a lot different with the smaller indy crowds and TNA crowds (back when they actually had hot crowds) who will chant that stuff at practically anything, and the promotions will throw out random goofy stuff with no rhyme or reason in a tail wagging the dog kind of way

[anarchistxx]

 

 

"THIS IS AWESOME" and "HOLY SHIT" chants in WWE are still pretty rare and generally reserved for truely awesome matches and holy shit moments.

 

Not sure about that, you hear them on just about any hot match on Raw that has a lot of dives, near falls and fast paced action.

 

I remember when the 'This Is Awesome' chants were a massive faux pas, reserved for idiot TNA smarks and sneered at by everyone else. How times have changed. The ROH board used to mock those chants to death, yet by 2006/2007 they were all over their own show, including the rest of the schtick like 'match of the year' and 'please don't stop' chants. Urgh.

[SomethingSavage]

"This is Awesome" springs up A LOT more than you're thinking, I believe.

 

"Holy Shit" isn't heard half as much these days though. I'll grant ya that. I remember hearing it pop up during the Bray/Cena match at Payback (IIRC) and noting how it had been a while since I'd heard it. Maybe a few of the Shield/Wyatts matches, but I'd have to go back and check on that.

EDIT: I was posting this around the same time as anarchistxx and didn't see his comments, but yeah. Beat me to the punch, pretty much.

[Badlittlekitten]

I think somebody asked this earlier, but when did "This Is Awesome" become a thing in the WWE? The first instance I can remember was during one of the Punk/Bryan matches a couple of years back. I tuned out for a number of years so I might be way off. I hate that chant. Reminds me of barricade slapping bellends.

 

"We are awesome!" takes the biscuit though.

 

UK crowds in particular I find unbearable.