Victator Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 And would Bradshaw getting snacked by WCW at any point in 96/97/98/99 have changed *anything* for WWF ? Of course not. He was a complete non factor. Not the point. He could have left, was made an offer, and stayed with Vince. Loyalty matters. This is true. Whether you see him as a valued performer or not, the company clearly did. D-Lo Brown was pretty loyal too. He also got the option to go to WCW after he got himself over with WWF crowds. He stayed loyal. When did he become a world champ again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Bradshaw was white, much bigger and a locker room enforcer. This isn't about saying WWE was right to feel the way they felt. It's more that if you put yourselves in their shoes, it makes sense. Besides, right or wrong, D-Lo wasn't going to be getting any big opportunities after the Droz incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Bradshaw was white, much bigger and a locker room enforcer. This isn't about saying WWE was right to feel the way they felt. It's more that if you put yourselves in their shoes, it makes sense. Besides, right or wrong, D-Lo wasn't going to be getting any big opportunities after the Droz incident. Forgot about Droz. Me and my bad exemples. But yeah, Bradshaw was white, big and an office stooge. And a locker room bully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 On the D'Lo subject. Weren't there some rumblings that he might have been WCW bound around the time the time Bischoff's group was thought to be buying the company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah, and I think it got back to the WWF that he had put his name out there as being willing to jump ship, which also hurt him. That may not be right, that's just what I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think the "JBL was an asshole" talking point is somewhat overblown. I think the company used him and Faarooq as locker room policemen, so I'm not sure if he can be blamed for all the undue in ring stiffness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 "Locker room police" and "locker room court" is such a huge pile of bullshit. Just a bunch of immature crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Bradshaw was white, much bigger and a locker room enforcer. This isn't about saying WWE was right to feel the way they felt. It's more that if you put yourselves in their shoes, it makes sense. Besides, right or wrong, D-Lo wasn't going to be getting any big opportunities after the Droz incident. also Russo leaving for WCW because he was a big D-Lo supporter. I would say Russo leaving hurt him the most. Also add in Gangrel, Billy Gunn, Jarrett (who left anyway so..) and Terri Runnels to that group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think there's some validity to having an enforcer or two on your roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Eh, the Wrestler's Court thing is overblown. From what I've read, it's done to deal with minor breaches of protocol like booking first class tickets before someone with more tenure. The punishment is usually something like having to buy dinner for the wronged party. So did Booker T put himself over CM Punk by criticizing him for not hooking both legs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think there's some validity to having an enforcer or two on your roster.Why? It just further perpetuates the creepy unwritten-rules nature of wrestling, with the idea that someone who's fucking up won't even know they're fucking up until the enforcer physically assaults them. In today's atmosphere, especially in a publicly traded corporation, there shouldn't be any of that old-school nonsense. You should deal with problems in a direct manner and not in front of the fans, not just say nothing until you have one guy beat up another which usually makes for an awkward match that the fans don't like. Eh, the Wrestler's Court thing is overblown. From what I've read, it's done to deal with minor breaches of protocol like booking first class tickets before someone with more tenure. The punishment is usually something like having to buy dinner for the wronged party.Yeah. The wrestlers are often surprisingly closed-mouthed about it, with few willing to discuss it in detail; but from what little I've heard, Wrestler's Court is mostly just a joke and a way for the boys to entertain themselves. It sounds basically harmless, and is in a completely different ballpark from "hey Acolytes, go beat the everliving shit out of this guy" or all the mean ribs pulled on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Re: Bradshaw I loved the Acolytes, really great team and entertaining when they transitioned into more of a skit/comedy role. Wasn't a fan of his long title run at all (the endless series of matches with Taker and Batista were really bad, and they're both guys who are capable of having very good matches), but I liked him as a mid-uppercard half serious/half comedy heel after his title run quite a bit. He was much better doing sideshow midcard feuds, secondary title or occasionally challenging a main eventer than being in the main event every month. And he was champ back when SD had solo PPVS, so he was really shoved down your throat. I also really liked his short run on commentary, like most people do. I never had a problem with JBL's alleged stiffness in the ring. It's just one of those things that goes hand in hand with being a pro wrestler. A guy hits you with a good shot, hit him with one back. It's been that way forever, and you can't exactly simulate a fight convincingly without it. There's a difference between being reckless and unsafe and being stiff, and I don't think JBL was going out there with the intention of injuring anybody. Bullying and sending a message at times, definitely, but again, that's the way wrestling has always been. I've always been a fan of guys who work stiff and convincingly and give as good as they get. I don't need to see head drops or anything truely dangerous, but snug strikes? C'mon, if you can't take a worked punch to the face or a chop or a kick or a hard shoulderblock you shouldn't be in the ring. It's not ballet, as the saying goes.... My problem with JBL is more with the stories of backstage bullying and intimidation. It goes on in every walk of life, and in every lockerroom of every sport, but from the firsthand stories from a multitude of sources it sounds like Bradshaw was pretty sadistic and often took it beyond the point of reason. There's a fine line there and a difference between running the lockerroom and outright torturing people. Miz wears the fact that Bradshaw tortured him as a badge of honor, and that attitude obviously helped him tremendously in getting over with the office and the lockerroom, but it doesn't really justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I never had a problem with JBL's alleged stiffness in the ring. It's just one of those things that goes hand in hand with being a pro wrestler. A guy hits you with a good shot, hit him with one back. It's been that way forever, and you can't exactly simulate a fight convincingly without it. There's a difference between being reckless and unsafe and being stiff, and I don't think JBL was going out there with the intention of injuring anybody. Bullying and sending a message at times, definitely, but again, that's the way wrestling has always been. I've always been a fan of guys who work stiff and convincingly and give as good as they get. I don't need to see head drops or anything truely dangerous, but snug strikes? C'mon, if you can't take a worked punch to the face or a chop or a kick or a hard shoulderblock you shouldn't be in the ring. It's not ballet, as the saying goes....The problem is, it's inconsistent. Bradshaw always picked and chose his spots when it came to REALLY hitting someone. Check out his treatment of DH Smith in . When does JBL ever lay into the top guys or tough guys like that? He'd never do that to Cena/HHH/Batista/Taker because it wouldn't be politically wise, and he'd never do that to Shamrock/Angle/Brock/Swagger because they would have ripped his head off and gone bowling with it. Bradshaw only got super-stiff when he was doing it to someone who lacked both the backstage power and the size/shooting ability to fight back in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe we watched a different match, because I honestly don't see a single thing wrong with anything JBL did in that match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Do grown men really get "bullied"? And what exactly is an "office stooge" anyway? And what exactly did JBL ever do to be called that? Did he, like, run to Vince to tell on people who were doing naughty things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe we watched a different match, because I honestly don't see a single thing wrong with anything JBL did in that match. Me neither. Unless it's "how dare he put down the Harts" bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe we watched a different match, because I honestly don't see a single thing wrong with anything JBL did in that match.Me neither. Unless it's "how dare he put down the Harts" bullshit. No, it's just unprofessional wrestling. Maybe it's not obvious if you've never wrestled (and yeah, I know how stupid the old "ya don't know nuthin' if ya never been in da ring" canard usually is, but on rare occasions it does have a kernel of truth), but JBL was hitting Harry harder with some of those shots than he usually hits people. The way he stayed on top of him in the opening barrage, Smith had no idea when or where some of those strikes were coming. That's a no-no, you're never supposed to whack someone when they're not prepared for it. And even though Bradshaw typically did have a rather painful way of throwing his clothesline, the ones here looked like they were swung higher than normal. You're not supposed to hit the guy in the neck or the face with that move, and that's right where he was aiming. Also, iirc, this was soon after Smith's wellness suspension, so maybe this was one of those "message from the office" deals. Which doesn't make it better, because like I said before, I've got a moral objection to management handing out "lessons" via beatings in the ring. If you think this one was too tame, check out the time he and Simmons beat the holy hell out of Public Enemy, blasting them with weapons shots in a reckless and dangerous manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think I'm never going to like either Holly or JBL. There's just too much stuff there. Too many stories. Some build on others and it's all a circle of bullshit probably, but I don't really care enough to dig and debunk each and every one of them. I'm way more content just thinking they're both jerks and assholes and bullies. Not enough time in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Okay Holly was on the road with Dupree and had the rental car in his name. A tornado was about to hit Mobile so Holly had to go home early. He gave Dupree the keys to the rental car. A month later Holly gets a summons to appear in Oregan (where the car was rented). Dupree fucked up the car and got a bunch of tickets. Holly is fined 10,000 dollars and has to fly up two or three more times on his off days. He tries to find out what happened from Dupree who keeps ducking him. Til finally they are in the ring and Holly kicks the shit out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Also, iirc, this was soon after Smith's wellness suspension, so maybe this was one of those "message from the office" deals. Which doesn't make it better, because like I said before, I've got a moral objection to management handing out "lessons" via beatings in the ring. If you think this one was too tame, check out the time he and Simmons beat the holy hell out of Public Enemy, blasting them with weapons shots in a reckless and dangerous manner. Totally agree. This is fucking ridiculous, seedy and unprofessional. Pro-wrestling suppose that you give your body to your opponent willingly because you trust him to protect you. Anything that crosses that line is a no-no. I would love to see Bradshaw try that kind of shit with guys like Meng, Barbie or Spivey. Of course he would never, because he would get killed. And as far as getting "punished" by the office that way, it's even worse and shows and low-class this business is. Don't let me give you a porn analogy, I don't want this thread to be closed. You have an issue, you solve it outside the ring. Period. I appreciate the fact that a guy like Saturn was apologetic on his shoot interview about beating that jobber up. He said he lost his mind and he was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 also Russo leaving for WCW because he was a big D-Lo supporter. I would say Russo leaving hurt him the most. Also add in Gangrel, Billy Gunn, Jarrett (who left anyway so..) and Terri Runnels to that group Are you sure about Runnels ? She hated most of Russo shit in 99. Hated the PMS thing (no shit), hated the "being pregnant and losing her baby" crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I watched the Smith/JBL match and that was pretty damn tame for all the bitching. I thought it was lame Smith did not even get token jobber offense, but I see far rougher stuff on old TBS squashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Okay Holly was on the road with Dupree and had the rental car in his name. A tornado was about to hit Mobile so Holly had to go home early. He gave Dupree the keys to the rental car. A month later Holly gets a summons to appear in Oregan (where the car was rented). Dupree fucked up the car and got a bunch of tickets. Holly is fined 10,000 dollars and has to fly up two or three more times on his off days. He tries to find out what happened from Dupree who keeps ducking him. Til finally they are in the ring and Holly kicks the shit out of him. Yeah, I'd definitely never heard that story. I mean, I don't know the extent to which Holly tore into him, but if that happened to me I'd absolutely be pissed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.