sek69 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 There's certainly valid reasons to have a "locker room policeman" role, most sports teams have a guy who makes sure that everyone's behaving properly. The problem lies when whoever is in that role lets it go to their head. Taker's been that guy for decades and you never heard any stories of him bullying people, hell the only story I've ever heard was when he implied to HBK he'd beat the shit out of him when it looked like he was going to try to weasel out of doing the job for Austin. With Holly, I at least got the impression when he was being an asshole it was either in receipt to what he perceived as a legit misbehavior or in the case of the Tough Enough kids just trying to weed out the ones not cut out for wrestling. He seemed like an equal opportunity grumpy bastard. With JBL I always got the impression he preyed on people (like mentioned before) who couldn't fight back for one reason or another. That's why the Joey Styles story became so well known, he thought he could bully this pipsqueak announcer guy around, and even if the Rocky-like retelling of the story is exaggerated, it seems at the very least Joey got tired of his bullshit and popped him one. Even the non-violent tales of bullying like making Miz change in the hallway because he didn't feel he belonged is just straight up high school ridiculousness that just make him look no better than beating up the chess team for lunch money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah, Undertaker is more of who you'd want out of that role. Or Harley Race for that matter. As far as wrestlers' court, I hear the same stories from professional baseball players. Usually to handle minor indiscretions, the money goes into a pot and funds some party or some expense of that nature. I think Dirk Hayhurst in his book had a story of a kangaroo court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Okay Holly was on the road with Dupree and had the rental car in his name. A tornado was about to hit Mobile so Holly had to go home early. He gave Dupree the keys to the rental car. A month later Holly gets a summons to appear in Oregan (where the car was rented). Dupree fucked up the car and got a bunch of tickets. Holly is fined 10,000 dollars and has to fly up two or three more times on his off days. He tries to find out what happened from Dupree who keeps ducking him. Til finally they are in the ring and Holly kicks the shit out of him. Yeah, I'd definitely never heard that story. I mean, I don't know the extent to which Holly tore into him, but if that happened to me I'd absolutely be pissed as well. Yeah, that's a weird one. One the one hand Holly was right to hold a grudge, on the other, Holly didn't confront him face to face, he waited until they were in a match either near the finish or right after it, whear they were supposed to be "working" and then shot on him by waiting until he was laying down on the outside of the ring, couldn't see what was coming and sucker punching the guy right in the face. Gave him a black eye. There's footage out thear somewhear of it tho you can't see the direct blow since it's on the other side of the ring the camera is filming. With all this JBL talk i'm surprised no one's mentioned the Blue Meanie incident at the ECW One Night Stand ppv that was a similar deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 also Russo leaving for WCW because he was a big D-Lo supporter. I would say Russo leaving hurt him the most. Also add in Gangrel, Billy Gunn, Jarrett (who left anyway so..) and Terri Runnels to that group Are you sure about Runnels ? She hated most of Russo shit in 99. Hated the PMS thing (no shit), hated the "being pregnant and losing her baby" crap. I was talking about in terms of push and screen time. There was the Hardys and E & C stuff initially but she got much less TV time once Russo left. In summer of 99 she was on RAW and Heat pretty much every week in multiple segments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I listened to Holly's shoot and he seemed like a cool genuine guy. I get why he smacked around the Tough Enough guy, and he owned up to it completely. If he had stabbed Rene Dupree he would have been justified. Holy shit I would probably be serving a life sentence if someone fucked me over like that. What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Okay Holly was on the road with Dupree and had the rental car in his name. A tornado was about to hit Mobile so Holly had to go home early. He gave Dupree the keys to the rental car. A month later Holly gets a summons to appear in Oregan (where the car was rented). Dupree fucked up the car and got a bunch of tickets. Holly is fined 10,000 dollars and has to fly up two or three more times on his off days. He tries to find out what happened from Dupree who keeps ducking him. Til finally they are in the ring and Holly kicks the shit out of him. Yeah, I'd definitely never heard that story. I mean, I don't know the extent to which Holly tore into him, but if that happened to me I'd absolutely be pissed as well. Yeah, that's a weird one. One the one hand Holly was right to hold a grudge, on the other, Holly didn't confront him face to face, he waited until they were in a match either near the finish or right after it, whear they were supposed to be "working" and then shot on him by waiting until he was laying down on the outside of the ring, couldn't see what was coming and sucker punching the guy right in the face. Gave him a black eye. There's footage out thear somewhear of it tho you can't see the direct blow since it's on the other side of the ring the camera is filming. With all this JBL talk i'm surprised no one's mentioned the Blue Meanie incident at the ECW One Night Stand ppv that was a similar deal. Holly said he tried to confront him before the match. But Dupree went out of his way to avoid him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The Miz thing was him eating something in the locker room and getting it on someone's bag, so he got tossed to the hallway. And of course, all that locker room shit is stupid. I just can't help but roll my eyes at people getting on their soapboxes and crying about "bullies" when these are grown adults who know exactly what kind of business they're getting into. When you're a grown-up, you just might have to deal with assholes at work who you can't tell off because they're higher up the ladder. That makes them assholes, not "bullies". Bullies try to take your lunch money, or call you names, or try to scare you... and you pop them in the jaw after school. Assholes at work? You handle it in a variety of ways. In wrestling, you do what Styles did and fight back, or you do what Sting did and let Slater flush your head. (Granted, ya don't bang another guys chick.). Sometimes, you eat shit. And again, like Vic said, I didn't see anything in that Smith squash worse than what Denny Brown or the Mulkeys took on a weekly basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 What's the Sting/Slater story about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't think I've heard the Sting/Slater story, either. I feel so useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The Miz thing was him eating something in the locker room and getting it on someone's bag, so he got tossed to the hallway. And of course, all that locker room shit is stupid. I just can't help but roll my eyes at people getting on their soapboxes and crying about "bullies" when these are grown adults who know exactly what kind of business they're getting into. When you're a grown-up, you just might have to deal with assholes at work who you can't tell off because they're higher up the ladder. That makes them assholes, not "bullies". Bullies try to take your lunch money, or call you names, or try to scare you... and you pop them in the jaw after school. Assholes at work? You handle it in a variety of ways. In wrestling, you do what Styles did and fight back, or you do what Sting did and let Slater flush your head. (Granted, ya don't bang another guys chick.). Sometimes, you eat shit. Well I think by definition a bully is someone who picks on people who can't fight back for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I believe the story goes that Sting was banging Slater's woman (Dark Journey maybe? I forget who it was) behind his back, Slater found out, and punched him. Sting allegedly didn't even attempt to fight back because he knew he was in the wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you believe Missy Hyatt, everyone was banging Dark Journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The idea of Sting seducing a woman while wearing his face paint is really funny to me for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The idea of Sting seducing a woman while wearing his face paint is really funny to me for some reason. It's even better if his theme music is playing. And doubly so if it's "Man Called Sting" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Everyone needs to go out of their way and listen to Regal announce this Ambrose match. I know it's mainly to further a story but it's great, great stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSDVBMPUzsA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Lance Storm's latest commentary is on, of all things, hooking the leg: http://www.stormwrestling.com/093012.html Naturally, Dave chimes in: I can tell him exactly where this problem came from because God knows in the 80s I heard enough about it. It was the function of announcers who knew what the finish was ahead of time trying to get themselves over at the expense of the drama of the match they were calling. And then, other announcers copied it thinking it was how you called a match. I don't really see the connection. It seems pretty clear to me that the Vince McMahon "HE GOT HIM...no he didn't" school of commentary was a far bigger influence down the line. I also consider it to be far more detrimental to the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 That commentary may sum up how much of a joyless sack of shit Lance Storm is even more than his Q&A posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Think his post made a lot of sense myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 you'd think that the point would be that hooking the leg is a storytelling tool, one that is most useful when done often enough that when someone does NOT do it and that leads to a kick out, it can actually mean something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I always waited for someone (probably Jesse, maybe Bockwinkel in his brief run) commentating with Gorilla, upon him going on one of his "He'll never get him like that, he didn't hook the leg!!!" speils, to counter that statement with "Sometimes you make the cover just to gauge how badly hurt your opponent is. You can tell how much he has left in the tank by how forcefully he kicks out. You don't need to hook the leg if you're trying to measure how much your opponent has left." It would have been done in a vein akin to explaining how the dropkick doesn't hurt the thrower when he connects, as opposed to when he missed it. I don't remember it ever happening, though. Something like that...ANY sort of logic-based counter-argument, even once, might have shut down that bit, at least for the rest of that match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I think we heard quite a bit the logic based counter argument of "it takes energy for the guy on the ground to kick out" and the counter counter of "it gives him two seconds to recover." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 ...but do you know of any specific instances of Monsoon being put in his place with the argument I suggested (which is the point on my end, petty as it is)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Not any specific one, no. It wasn't a Ventura talking point. I'm trying to remember who I heard that from the most. I think it was a Tony thing actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 If we really want to present our matches as real and put some substance into what we do, not every pin fall even needs to be an attempt to win the match. No, that's exactly what it would be if wrestling was real, otherwise you wouldn't waste your time pinning the guy in the first place. You'd just stay on the offensive. I've often viewed and treated pin falls as a measuring stick when working. In the middle of the match going for a simple pin is a way to test and judge how beat up or fatigued my opponent is. If this were real, and that is how we are supposed to present things, would it not make sense to do a simple lateral press in a match just to see how strongly or how quickly your opponent kicks out? If this were real, that isn't how you'd be supposed to present things. Also, if it were real, you wouldn't be concerned with how you were "supposed to present things". You'd be concerned about winning. And no, a lateral press "just to see how strongly or how quickly your opponent kicks out" wouldn't even make sense for that reason - wouldn't hooking the leg on a pinfall accomplish the exact same thing while simultaneously making victory more likely? Goddamit, Lance Storm, no wonder you sucked so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 If this were real, that isn't how you'd be supposed to present things. Also, if it were real, you wouldn't be concerned with how you were "supposed to present things". You'd be concerned about winning. And no, a lateral press "just to see how strongly or how quickly your opponent kicks out" wouldn't even make sense for that reason - wouldn't hooking the leg on a pinfall accomplish the exact same thing while simultaneously making victory more likely? Goddamit, Lance Storm, no wonder you sucked so much. This by 1000x. His logic makes no sense whatsoever. If we really want to get into this. By pinning your opponent, you're giving up your advantage briefly to try and win the match. If you listened to Heenan on commentary, he constantly talked about how you'd wait till 2 to kick out to get a chance to catch your breath. Also, seems like a smart wrestler would do just enough to get out out trouble. It doesn't make logical sense. I also fail to see how Gorilla Monsoon talking about how a guy not hooking the leg is a bad thing. Again, it's a sport and you criticize guys who aren't executing properly. The bitching about that type of announcing reeks of trying to find anything to bitch about. Gorilla isn't my favorite but he's nowhere near as bad as Meltzer and others love to portray him as. God, I get so sick of his constant whining about modern wrestling. He sounds like such a bitter fuck that he was at best a wrestling footnote more noted for being boring as shit over anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I also fail to see how Gorilla Monsoon talking about how a guy not hooking the leg is a bad thing. Again, it's a sport and you criticize guys who aren't executing properly. It was part of the house style at the time to only hook the leg on the pin that ended the match. Gorilla was criticizing guys for making a mistake that he knew they weren't allowed to correct. It only served to make him look good at the wrestlers' expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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