JerryvonKramer Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 These seem to be the two options open to the wrestling royalty of the 80s and 90s. Maybe about 50 guys all-in. Seemingly the likes of Jake Roberts and Honky Tonk Man don't make the cut and are destined to work the indies or just retire. A bunch of elite guys -- Piper, DiBiase, Nash, Bret, Austin, Michaels -- get to sit on these WWE Legends Contracts. Another bunch of elite guys -- Hogan, Flair, Sting -- all work for TNA and still wrestle. I'm wondering about how these two options stack up. How much do you reckon a Legends contract pays? I notice that four of the guys I've named there (DiBiase, Hart, Austin, Michaels) are guys with career-ending injuries. Could working for TNA be more lucrative than one of those deals? Just wondering why would Hogan and Flair would opt to compete in the ring when SURELY if people like Snuka and Slaughter can get on these Legends contracts, they'd get them easily. I'd imagine that they'd both get reasonably high-end deals on them too. The other thing I wonder about is road agents and trainers: Arn Anderson, Steamboat, Rotunda all have roles in that capacity. Surely Anderson and Steamer would be eligible for a Legends contract. Could being a road agent possibly pay more? Or do they have some of the Legends benefits tied into their package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I always thought Hulk Hogan would make a good WWE on-air character as a president, old school Jack Tunney style. He can't wrestle anymore, but everyone knows who Hulk Hogan is and he can sure as hell still talk. I think there's room for a lot of those guys. Jake's mind can't be used in creative, really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Jake's mind can't be used in creative, really? Really, since he's such a huge liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Road agents get health care and benefits. Way better than a legends contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Both Hogan and Flair would be in WWE right now if WWE had offered them a better contract. A WWE deal is too restrictive and they wouldn't pay as much as TNA on a per date basis. Also, with the amount of big stars on any major show nowadays, WrestleMania payoffs for them wouldn't be too big. I know Meltzer was talking of late about Hogan being upset about his SummerSlam payoff for his match with Shawn in 2005, which he believed was only about $250,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Honky Tonk Man often talked about how he made way more money working indies than if he got a Legend's contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Really? I was under the impression that AT MOST a guy like HTM would be picking up between $800-$1k for an indy appearance. He can make more THAT way than on a Legends contract? Seriously? How much are guys on now in general? I was looking at WCW Nitro era payroll the other night and DIBIASE was on $250,000 a year for doing basically nothing, Hogan was on over $4million basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm pretty sure guys on Legends contracts can still work indies, but obviously the WWE's commitments come first. My local indy has brought in plenty of WWE legends guys over the last couple of years, Jerry Lawler has even done a couple of shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think the point is that if Honky wants to work every night, he can still make decent money. He would also be giving up his rights to the gimmick through the deal. I know he can still work indies, but I'm guessing that means WWE would get a cut of any profits he makes from appearing anywhere as Honky Tonk Man? Not sure. I think I read once that the Legends contracts typically pay a really, really low amount -- something like $15,000 a year. I'm sure your Flair and Hogan types could get a sweeter deal than that of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Oh right, THAT low? I thought it would be closer to like 80-100k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 IIRC, what Honky Tonk Man said was that in addition to signing over your gimmick to WWE, the legends contract was technically just a $10,000 advance on future royalties, and they could demand back whatever he didn't end up earning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 My recollection is similar to Bix: The Legends Contract is chump change. It could be decent money of they use you for anything, but most of the guys on it aren't being used for much. Ponder Ric Flair. The WWE was willing to set him up with a good income in his retirement after the Shawn Match. It wasn't enough for Ric. While I'll grant Ric's expensive lifestyle, we need to grant as well that Ric was on good terms with the WWE at the time, beloved by at least one major power player in the family, and the intent of the offer was to "take care of Ric" rather than toss him 10K. It was a sizeable offer that probably a lot of ROH guys would kill each other for. Ric thought he could make more money elsewhere. Which in a sense was true: he hooked up with Hogan & Eric to suck TNA dry. Ric was a recent "star" of the WWE, and someone who still had promotional value to them. The majority of folks on Legends contracts don't have a ton of major value to the WWE. It's just a way to lock them up for minimal costs. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 My impression was that Legends contracts were a quick and easy way to get the rights for old timers to be used in video games and other nostalgia merch without having to haggle over royalties with each one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 For reference, though I can't find the thing (a video? podcast?) where he explains the royalty setup of the legends deals: WW"e" Contract Treachery Fans, last year WW"e" contacted The Honky Tonk Man and about using his name and likeness for video games and action figures. HTM directed his representative to negotiate terms with the WW"e" contact agent. Thereafter the WW"e" provided a proposed "contract" that had absolutely nothing to do with video games or action figures. Instead it was a bait and switch for what the WW"e" termed the "nostalgia" program. A short time later that program evolved into what the WW"e" now calls the "Legends" program. The "contract" was nothing more than a copy of the present day WW"e" pro forma talent contract. It read like slavery and no one in his right mind would sign it. Sadly, there are those who have. HTM's representative then contacted the WW"e" agent and asked what happened to video games and action figures, and what all the other BS was doing in there. The reply consisted of ridiculous non-answers. A few days later HTM had the "contract" rewritten to reflect its original purposes and sent to the WW"e." Thereafter, WW"e" vice president Ed Cohen, who never talked to HTM or his representative regarding any of the matters at hand, sent a reply rejecting HTM's terms. Cohen stated on behalf of the WW"e" that it was "unfortunate HTM would not be participating" in the "nostalgia" program. Unfortunate? Not for HTM. In what was par for the WW"e" pattern of doing business, Cohen's letter said not one word about video games or action figures. "Nostalgia" program? At no time was that ever discussed. The WWE "contract" was so poorly drafted that a first year law student would have been expelled had he or she produced such garbage. Fans, the standard WW"e" talent contract is juvenile at best. Vince the non-licensed legal genius constantly amended it as hard knocks came along over the years. One would think a guy with all that cash in his pockets could have afforded some rudimentary legal advice, but that was obviously not the case. Had HTM signed he would never be able to use his name "Honky Tonk Man" again. The WWE would have owned damn near his very existence for the rest of his life, and all at the price of a few bags of peanuts. To sum up the sorry tale, when HTM had his representative properly redraft the proposed contract in response to the blatant treachery of the WW"e," as a practical matter he told the WW"e" to get fucked. HTM knew the WW"e" would never go for it, but he decided that since they wanted to waste his time he would waste some of theirs in turn. In hindsight HTM knew a better use of his time would have been to ignore the WW"e." However, HTM was curious to see how the WW"e" would respond to the exposure of their bullshit. After HTM learned more about the "Legends" nonsense, it took only a few brain cells to understand the motives of the former wrestlers who signed. It is hard to believe so many have nothing going for themselves. And Vince, true to form, included the usual non-competition clauses. From time to time WW"e" contacts HTM regarding one-time appearances. When HTM indicates that the Greatest Intercontinental Champion of All Time isn't going to job to anyone, especially a pipsqueak like Randy Orton, the conversations end. Vince McMahon can't stand not owning the wrestlers who work for him right down to their underwear for the rest of their lives. HTM is one of the very rare top Superstars of the WWF/WWE days to tell Vince McMahon to go pound rocks. As HTM says: "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't." About a month ago HTM asked his staff write a Commentary in response to the many questions he gets from his fans as to why he isn't in the Legends program. Now you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm pretty sure guys on Legends contracts can still work indies, but obviously the WWE's commitments come first. My local indy has brought in plenty of WWE legends guys over the last couple of years, Jerry Lawler has even done a couple of shots.Lawler sometimes seems like he works an indy show every single night of the week (except Monday, of course). Why does he keep doing that, at his age? He's been under WWE contract for twenty years now, not to mention all the years being the top guy in Memphis; you'd think he would've made more money than he could ever spend by now. Certainly he doesn't seem to have the usual money-sucking problems like drugs, cars, or divorces which seem to drain many celebrities' wallets dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 With respect though, shouldn't we question this if HTM -- the most notorious of all blow hards -- is our only source here? Also, do you think HTM would get the same deal as, say, a DiBiase or a Piper? Let alone some of the other guys on Legends contracts (Austin, Bret, Shawn etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I also remember Superstar Billy Graham, after WWE cut him from his legends deal, saying the guarantee was for very little money, basically nothing to WWE in the grand scheme of things. His DVD and book didn't sell well, so he can't have made a whole lot more than the downside, though I believe WWE had at one time been helping pay for his medical expenses. It's really on a case by case basis. I'm sure they have their standard 10-15K + royalties contract they offer the older guys, but guys like Austin, Shawn, Edge, Flair, Hogan will be offered sweet deals to basically do nothing because Vince wants to keep them under the WWE umbrella while they still have name value. Guys like Snuka, Kamala, Koko B. Ware etc.....what value does their name really have on the market, and do they want to be like a HTM hustling on the indies into their 50's and 60's? For guys like that signing the contract means they maybe get featured on DVDs they otherwise wouldn't have, maybe they get action figures, retro t-shirts and a spot on a video game, maybe it makes it easier to do conventions and signings when they can be booked as a "WWE LEGEND".....there's a definite convenience factor for some of these older guys who don't have as much to offer to the business anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm pretty sure guys on Legends contracts can still work indies, but obviously the WWE's commitments come first. My local indy has brought in plenty of WWE legends guys over the last couple of years, Jerry Lawler has even done a couple of shots.Lawler sometimes seems like he works an indy show every single night of the week (except Monday, of course). Why does he keep doing that, at his age? He's been under WWE contract for twenty years now, not to mention all the years being the top guy in Memphis; you'd think he would've made more money than he could ever spend by now. Certainly he doesn't seem to have the usual money-sucking problems like drugs, cars, or divorces which seem to drain many celebrities' wallets dry. Dating women more than half your age doesn't come cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I also remember Superstar Billy Graham, after WWE cut him from his legends deal, saying the guarantee was for very little money, basically nothing to WWE in the grand scheme of things. His DVD and book didn't sell well, so he can't have made a whole lot more than the downside, though I believe WWE had at one time been helping pay for his medical expenses. It's really on a case by case basis. I'm sure they have their standard 10-15K + royalties contract they offer the older guys, but guys like Austin, Shawn, Edge, Flair, Hogan will be offered sweet deals to basically do nothing because Vince wants to keep them under the WWE umbrella while they still have name value. Graham had a separate consulting deal as a favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 In response to Jerry, WWE's basic contracts are ridiculously lop sided in their favour. There's numerous stories of wrestlers taking their first WWE contract to lawyers, who advise them not to sign for that reason, but invariably everyone does because it's the only way to get a big break in the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 He would also be giving up his rights to the gimmick through the deal. Yeah, I thihk that's a big hurdle preventing a lot of guys from signing, WWE's weird like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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