Chris Jericho is overrated

[ohtani's jacket]

My theory: People saw the potential in Jericho in 1998 to become one of the best ever and he was anointed that by some before it ever happened. And then it didn't happen: He was really, really good for a long time and great over stretches of his career, but he didn't have the sustained greatness in the ring or on promos that seemed possible in 1998.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. There was an expectation that the WWF could make him a star, though, as they'd done with Austin and Foley.

[Coffey]

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. There was an expectation that the WWF could make him a star, though, as they'd done with Austin and Foley.

He has had some good material and he has had some bad material. I am not sure how much of it was him and how much of it was WWE writing. I remember some terrible Planet of the Apes promotion, that resulted in Chris Jericho having apes throw cream pies in Stephanie McMahon's face. I also remember like ten years after the fact, when Austin and Rock weren't even active performers anymore, trying to brag about beating them both in one night. Which I'm sure a lot of the audience didn't even remember. But none of that stuff is matches, which is more what I want to talk about. The actual bell-to-bell parts of Chris Jericho.

[cm funk]

Jericho is easily my favorite active wrestler, and he's pretty high up on my list of all-time favorites, so I might be biased, but I consider him a very good in-ring wrestler who falls a little short of greatness, but certainly has had his moments. As far as active guys in the United States I can't think of many who are better. Definitely Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, maybe AJ Styles....Ziggler and Christian I'd put on about the same level.....and I'm failing to think of anybody else. Maybe Undertaker but he's barely active.

 

I totally agree that Jericho was overrated earlier in his career, and had his share of sloppy moments and disappointing matches....but I'd say from like 03/04 onwards he's been really, really good, and at his best from 08 to present. One thing I give him a lot of credit for is his versatility. He can work well with just about anybody, in any type of match. Technical, brawls, spot fests, tags, he's creative in gimmick matches.....just a really well rounded performer.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. There was an expectation that the WWF could make him a star, though, as they'd done with Austin and Foley.

I remember some terrible Planet of the Apes promotion, that resulted in Chris Jericho having apes throw cream pies in Stephanie McMahon's face.

 

It was a banana cream pie, and while it may have been kinda lame...it led to one of the funniest things ever on WWF TV. Steph, still covered in pie barges into Commissioner Regal's office screaming about Jericho and Regal looks over at Tajiri and says, "Look, a banana tart."

 

edit: Ok, I found it and she's not still covered in pie, Tajiri's not there, and Regal says, "Oh hello. It's my favorite dessert, banana tart."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6DZWE8_pNQ

[cm funk]

And just for the sake of it I'd like to throw out the Hogan match from 02 and Goldberg match from 03 as really great examples of Jericho carrying limited workers to well above average matches, that he probably wasn't capable of doing just a few years earlier

 

I think Jericho's match with Goldberg was probably the best of 'Berg's entire WWE run. It's just competitive enough to make Jericho look good and still put Goldberg over as a nigh unbeatable monster. The Rock match has way too much over-acting for my tastes to the point where he's clearly outshining Goldberg and it takes me out of the match.

[cm funk]

Another good one is the Hair v. Hair match with Kevin Nash from a RAW in 03

 

I think his tag runs with Christian and Big Show are criminally underrated as well. JeriShow was carrying RAW with their matches for months

[Matt D]

I think one flaw Jericho has is is that sometimes he tries to go out and have a MATCH OF THE NIGHT, and in doing so ends up with an exciting, incoherent mess.

[El-P]

Jerciho is one of those guy who clearly peaked in WWF/E, even to me who don't like the style. It's pretty obvious. Jericho in the mid-90's had ton of potential. He was a fun spot machine in Japan, ECW and early days of WCW. Then he developped his character and got one of the most fun wrestler on TV in 1998, and was already very good. But he clearly peaked when he got to work big matches in WWF. As far as becoming a star, well, he could have, but we know how he got saddled with Stephy, how HHH worked a horrible match with him at a WM that pretty much killed the idea Jericho was a *big* star.

 

I don't think many other from the WCW crew peaked in WWF though. Eddie had its glory moments, but he was much better back in 1997 and the WWE main event style dragged him down (not much, because he was Eddie). Benoit had his best days in Japan in the 90's. Rey, well, I won't go over Rey again, I know I'm in the minority now thinking lucha/WCW Rey is much better than 619 Rey. Booker T maybe, although I don't think Booker was ever particulary good. Paul Wight I guess too, but that should be a given ocnsidering he was a rookie in WCW after all.

[Ryan Faulconer]

In his second book, iirc, Jericho seems to REALLY look back on the Stephanie feud like it was one of the real highlights of his career. I remember reading that and thinking it was written by a smart man who was coming back and didn't want to step on any toes. Creatively it was on the level of some of the worst moments of the Russorific 1999 WWF. Referencing Newman from Seinfeld was maybe the wittiest thing the creative team came up with...and that was roughly five to ten years out of date. Personally, I dig lucha/IWA Winnipeg/Japan Jericho the most. Well, maybe not more than the conspiracy victim version but I'd usually rather watch lucha than almost anything.

 

My absolute highlight of his entire career is probably the awesome duelling promo with The Rock back in 2001. I also keep thinking that when the WWE Jericho DVD set came out I probably should have spent my money more wisely and picked up Will's sets instead. The bio portion of the WWE set is pretty much taken word for word from his book(s).

[Loss]

To give Coffey more matches to watch, what is the best of the Jericho/Rey matches from 2009? I remember enjoying all of the ones that I saw.

[Matt D]

In his second book, iirc, Jericho seems to REALLY look back on the Stephanie feud like it was one of the real highlights of his career. I remember reading that and thinking it was written by a smart man who was coming back and didn't want to step on any toes. Creatively it was on the level of some of the worst moments of the Russorific 1999 WWF. Referencing Newman from Seinfeld was maybe the wittiest thing the creative team came up with...and that was roughly five to ten years out of date. Personally, I dig lucha/IWA Winnipeg/Japan Jericho the most. Well, maybe not more than the conspiracy victim version but I'd usually rather watch lucha than almost anything.

The frustrating thing is that on paper, pairing Stephanie with Jericho should have worked. They should have gotten molten heat. They almost went out of their way to make sure it didn't work.

[Dylan Waco]

That whole series is great. I remember liking The Bash match best at the time.

[NintendoLogic]

In his most recent book, Jericho readily admits that he had no real understanding of psychology before coming to the WWF and basically being trained from scratch by Pat Patterson.

[Mad Dog]

If you go back and watch the Malenko/Jericho match from Slamboree in 98, it's kind of amazing to see how hot the crowd was for that match. It's kind of amazing to see Malenko that over considering he was a vacuum of charisma.

[Gregor]

If you go back and watch the Malenko/Jericho match from Slamboree in 98, it's kind of amazing to see how hot the crowd was for that match. It's kind of amazing to see Malenko that over considering he was a vacuum of charisma.

Yeah, I was thinking about this match and that feud when first reading this thread. That whole thing was pretty much all Jericho (and the great twist in the battle royal), as Malenko wasn't even on TV after the Uncensored match. It was probably as over as Malenko ever got in the states, and he didn't really have much to do with it.

[Loss]

Jericho is really good at getting programs over. I think even his detractors will agree with that.

[Mad Dog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtKLGyLO38M

[FLIK]

God yes regarding Jericho being bad in CMLL. The Jericho match where he teamed with Ultimo against Dandy and Casas was terrible, and was built around making him look good. It was worked elimination style. Ultimo went down early and Jericho came back to beat both Dandy and Casas. So much talent trying to carry him and they couldn't seem to pull it off. I still say that is the only actively bad match I have ever seen involving Negro Casas, which is quite an accomplishment.

I'm assuming this is the one you're talking about right? http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=14421

 

You and well, everyone should really see the 93 Ultimo/Jericho vs Casas/Dandy tag if you haven't. I'd easily call that one one of the best matches i've ever seen.

 

Youtube links

[ohtani's jacket]

He's talking about that '93 tag, which is awful.

[cm funk]

In his second book, iirc, Jericho seems to REALLY look back on the Stephanie feud like it was one of the real highlights of his career. I remember reading that and thinking it was written by a smart man who was coming back and didn't want to step on any toes. Creatively it was on the level of some of the worst moments of the Russorific 1999 WWF. Referencing Newman from Seinfeld was maybe the wittiest thing the creative team came up with...and that was roughly five to ten years out of date. Personally, I dig lucha/IWA Winnipeg/Japan Jericho the most. Well, maybe not more than the conspiracy victim version but I'd usually rather watch lucha than almost anything.

The frustrating thing is that on paper, pairing Stephanie with Jericho should have worked. They should have gotten molten heat. They almost went out of their way to make sure it didn't work.

 

In Jericho's book he's talking about 2000 when he was an antagonist to Stephanie and HHH. He credits it with getting him over and putting his WWE career on track after a rough start. IIRC he wasn't a big fan of the 2002 booking, but liked working with Stephanie again.

[Coffey]

To give Coffey more matches to watch, what is the best of the Jericho/Rey matches from 2009? I remember enjoying all of the ones that I saw.

Just out of curiosity, has there ever been any sort of Jericho project? I think I'm willing to re-watch most of his stuff.

[EricR]

I loved Jericho in 98 and 99, because he got my sister into pro wrestling (she was 11). She loved Jericho and it was so fun getting to watch wrestling with her. I remember how much we cried and rolled on the floor laughing during his Road Wild '98 entrance where he came out in a kimono and pointed out goober bikers in the crowd, then got on the stick and talked about how he was cruising around earlier that day on his Honda, and then got drowned out by roaring Harleys.

 

I like Jericho just fine. He may be overrated, but people are talking about him like he's Edge all of a sudden. I was there live for the 2009 GAB Mysterio match and had a blast. Is he a GOAT? No. But he produces consistently entertaining stuff, and that's really all I ask for.

[Victator]

Jericho is good, but he is overrated. I haven't really cared for him since watching his dvd. He put himself over so much it was hard to like him.

[Loss]

He's definitely a step above Edge. He's most likely several steps above Edge.

[Mad Dog]

I think it's an insult to Jericho to even mention Edge in the same sentence.

 

Jericho was a good worker and he had a talent for drawing heat. Really, how the fuck cares what you do in the ring if you can draw heat like Chris Jericho could. How many guys could stay as over as he could while getting actively shit on by the booking during some of the WWE years.