Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Luchaundead]

Seems like a decent place to post it I guess former ROH talent Colby Corino is going to the NJPW DOJO to train should be interesting

[shoe]

Seems like a decent place to post it I guess former ROH talent Colby Corino is going to the NJPW DOJO to train should be interesting

He's such a great bumper. The wrestlers will love working with him.

[spudz25]

I think Elgin has improved so much since working NJPW. He's a totally different wrestler from the guy going into the G1 for the 1st time.

Watching Elgin develop in NJPW has been one of my favorite things about this year. For me, his matches are all must watch.

[SirEdger]

Will O'Spreay is the new ROH World TV Champion. He defeated Bobby Fish at the first ROH UK Reach for the Sky tour earlier today in Liverpool.

[Bierschwale]

If they fuck up DL-Ospreay...

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Went to the ROH show in London last night and thought that overall it was a really excellent night and one which I would recommend people check out when its released. I can’t speak for the nights in Liverpool and Leicester, but this one looked easily like a sell out and the building looked more packed than the last Rev Pro show I went to in the same building a week or so ago. I’m not sure what non ROH shows typically look like, but my mate and I were really impressed by the production values – the big screens, lighting and sound were really professional – far more than when we saw them back in the UK 10 years ago – and you did notice the step up in quality from a Rev Pro event, who in themselves make their shows look really good in the York Hall.

 

The big news is obviously Scurll beating Ospreay for the TV Title. It’s a result that I’m sure a number of people around here won’t have enjoyed, as I know that quite a few don’t like Scurll’s schtick but the crowd were absolutely molten for the match and for him winning. I have not heard a crowd so loud and into a match in a packed venue like that, and I really think that, as this will be something a lot of people in the US see, the crowd were keen for them to come across as superstars. It wont be for everyone’s tastes, and I would have to see what it looks like on VOD to get a better handle, but live, this was an incredible match, that people seemed legitimately exhausted for. It was nuts. So much to recap so I won’t even try, but one sequence of Ospreay flipping and moonsaulting while Marty kept moving was amazing to watch. As I say, it wont be to everyone’s tastes, but I thought it was an amazing match and the reaction Scurll got when he won was fantastic. Having seen all of the three key UK guys this past two weeks – these two and ZSJ, Marty is the one that the crowd in London is behind. Whether it’s ring work, personality or presentation there are sections of the crowd who get on both Ospreay’s and ZSJ’s backs, while Scurll is the clear hero, even if he is playing the villain. Intrigued to see if the two title changes to UK guys was just to pop the tour or if Scurll will get a run with the belt.

 

The Briscoes, Young Bucks match was equally nuts live and they tried for an ending where it kind of seemed like the Briscoes might have won the belts but I think everyone in the building knew that it was non title. There was obviously tons of ‘movez’ in this match, and while I could’ve done with a bit more a heat sequence at some point, it was another amazing spectacle of a match that I enjoyed a lot. The only two bits that took me out a little were Matt Jackson kicking out of both a Jay Driller – which used to be a really protected move in an age of finisher kick outs – and also a top rope assisted crucifix bomb where I thought he had broken in half from my angle. Again, will be interested to see how this comes over on rewatch.

 

The main event was decent but suffered from an exhausted crowd after the Scurll/Ospreay match and I think unfortunately the crowd had started to wander off mentally at that point. I know a lot of people – myself included – have a problem with modern crowds being smarky, but I thought the crowd was awesome all night and into everything…apart from the last match. Whether it was just because it was getting late or the lack of a come down between the TV title match but there was a disconnect between the story they were trying to tell of Lethal having his leg worked over and emotionally trying to get his title back and three drunk morons in the balcony trying to get a ‘Delete’ chart over. Thankfully they didn’t. The ending stretch was really hot though and there was a great moment where Lethal goes for the Lethal Injection but his injured leg just crumples and he collapses. Cole also finishes him with a brutal combination of moves which makes Lethal look pretty strong even in a clean loss.

 

One final thing was the finishes – all clean. I know people have had some issues with finishes of their PPV’s or on TV, but at this show everything was clean and there was no interference in any of the matches – it was refreshing and nice return to the ROH of old. Is this the norm for people who see their live events for VOD?

 

 

Overall, a really good show with great energy from everyone involved, all backed by a really loud crowd. Would be keen to hear from anyone that went to the Liverpool and Leicester shows to see how they compared.

[bradhindsight]

Really good recap TPC.

 

I would say regarding the finishes - yes, they are typically always clean. Unless its something advancing a very big angle - like the Global Wars PPV no contest , or maybe a short tv match/angle, its always clean.

[bradhindsight]

Watched the latest TV and man did Team CMLL look like they were having a blast. Two really solid matches over the same night for the tapings.

 

I thought Dalton Castle was really good, Cabana's logic was sound (and is a better story than usual when it comes to tag partners getting together only to then feud).

 

I've been wishy-washy on O'Reilly of late, but I really liked this Silas match. Selling issues late aside for both, this was prob my favorite singles O'Reilly match in a while.

[Migs]

Was at tonight's show live. Thought it was good (and it was a big win to be at the Hammerstein and not Terminal 5), but it seemed to lack a blowaway match to put it over the top. Really liked Bucks-Briscoes and Lethal-Cody, but neither broke ****, I thought. The main event felt like they were trying for a big epic and didn't quite get there. I still feel like there's an anti-climax when Dalton Castle wrestles in the third match,

 

Maybe more thoughts tomorrow.

[bradhindsight]

I thought Death Before Dishonor had better depth quality wise but I thought the last three matches all delivered.

 

Cody lethal exceeded expectations . First half was standard Cody on the indies stuff and then it ramped up and had a great angle. Shockingly good.

[Grimmas]

Was at tonight's show live. Thought it was good (and it was a big win to be at the Hammerstein and not Terminal 5), but it seemed to lack a blowaway match to put it over the top. Really liked Bucks-Briscoes and Lethal-Cody, but neither broke ****, I thought. The main event felt like they were trying for a big epic and didn't quite get there. I still feel like there's an anti-climax when Dalton Castle wrestles in the third match,

 

Maybe more thoughts tomorrow.

Castle is still on that early? Really how is he not the main attraction of the promotion yet? It's been over a year that it's been obvious he should be in that spot.

[Mad Dog]

 

Was at tonight's show live. Thought it was good (and it was a big win to be at the Hammerstein and not Terminal 5), but it seemed to lack a blowaway match to put it over the top. Really liked Bucks-Briscoes and Lethal-Cody, but neither broke ****, I thought. The main event felt like they were trying for a big epic and didn't quite get there. I still feel like there's an anti-climax when Dalton Castle wrestles in the third match,

 

Maybe more thoughts tomorrow.

Castle is still on that early? Really how is he not the main attraction of the promotion yet? It's been over a year that it's been obvious he should be in that spot.

 

 

Because the company is run by dumb people?

[Memphis Mark]

Castle should move up the card in 2017 . NJPW is high on Castle , so I would expect him to work Wrestle Kingdom and multiple NJPW tours in 2017. Also I would hope Castle and Marty Scurll to work a TV Title program. ROH now knows he is a money draw.

[Memphis Mark]

Is Zach Sabre , JR under a WWN contract or is he a free agent. ZSJ is moving to the States and ROH should open their wallet and sign him . A Kyle and ZSJ program would be huge for ROH .

[Migs]

Castle should move up the card in 2017 . NJPW is high on Castle , so I would expect him to work Wrestle Kingdom and multiple NJPW tours in 2017. Also I would hope Castle and Marty Scurll to work a TV Title program. ROH now knows he is a money draw.

 

It was obvious he was a money draw a year and a half ago. He's gotten among the biggest, if not the biggest, reaction on every show I've been to. Meanwhile, the ROH World Champion is someone who's so beloved that people walked out during his celebration.

[Grimmas]

Castle should move up the card in 2017 . NJPW is high on Castle , so I would expect him to work Wrestle Kingdom and multiple NJPW tours in 2017. Also I would hope Castle and Marty Scurll to work a TV Title program. ROH now knows he is a money draw.

If ROH knows he is a money draw then they are fucking insanely stupid. It's been obvious for atleast 18 months and he's on the undercard of their biggest show of the year facing Colt Cabana.

 

Wow, he may move up to the TV Title level? Dude should be the focus of the company.

[Memphis Mark]

A program between Castle and Marty would be moving up. The titles are just props , TV or World it is all the same.. The point is to draw money. , a Castle / Marty program would draw. You can only move talent up the ladder so fast without pissing off the rest of the locker room . Also , Delirious has been in charge for most of Castles run . Now that Kevin Kelly and Christopher Daniels have more power the ROH booking should improve.

 

Really you don't need a title to be the face of the company , you just have to be over.

[Migs]

A program between Castle and Marty would be moving up. The titles are just props , TV or World it is all the same.. The point is to draw money. , a Castle / Marty program would draw. You can only move talent up the ladder so fast without pissing off the rest of the locker room . Also , Delirious has been in charge for most of Castles run . Now that Kevin Kelly and Christopher Daniels have more power the ROH booking should improve.

 

Really you don't need a title to be the face of the company , you just have to be over.

 

You need to be put in a spot to draw. The third match on the card isn't that.

 

Castle needs to work with an actual heel, which unfortunately ROH is pretty short on. Maybe they'll be able to establish Cody as one.

[Memphis Mark]

 

A program between Castle and Marty would be moving up. The titles are just props , TV or World it is all the same.. The point is to draw money. , a Castle / Marty program would draw. You can only move talent up the ladder so fast without pissing off the rest of the locker room . Also , Delirious has been in charge for most of Castles run . Now that Kevin Kelly and Christopher Daniels have more power the ROH booking should improve.

 

Really you don't need a title to be the face of the company , you just have to be over.

 

You need to be put in a spot to draw. The third match on the card isn't that.

 

Castle needs to work with an actual heel, which unfortunately ROH is pretty short on. Maybe they'll be able to establish Cody as one.

 

 

 

I agree with you . Castle needs to be in Main Event or Semi - Main Event on every show. Marty is a heel that why I what to see a program a him and Castle. A program between Castle and a heel Cody would also work . My point is that Castle is so over he does not really need to hold a belt unless it makes sense from a booking stand point. What Castle needs is a two year contract and an big bump in pay.

 

 

People like Kyle and the Kingdom needs title to help get them over. Guys like Cole , Briscoes , Bucks and Dalton. are just on another level than most of the locker room .

[Grimmas]

Never said Castle needs the belt, he just needs to be treated like a top star.

[Memphis Mark]

Never said Castle needs the belt, he just needs to be treated like a top star.

 

I agree.

[bradhindsight]

 

Castle should move up the card in 2017 . NJPW is high on Castle , so I would expect him to work Wrestle Kingdom and multiple NJPW tours in 2017. Also I would hope Castle and Marty Scurll to work a TV Title program. ROH now knows he is a money draw.

If ROH knows he is a money draw then they are fucking insanely stupid. It's been obvious for atleast 18 months and he's on the undercard of their biggest show of the year facing Colt Cabana.

 

Wow, he may move up to the TV Title level? Dude should be the focus of the company.

 

 

He's not a money draw. He's one of the more popular acts and is very over, and has been featured on their TV for two years now. But if you look a card like SOTF weekend, with the Bucks, Cole and Lethal in Japan, the attendance was way way down. Those guys are the draws.

 

I know you don't follow the product, but the Cabana match had a story and as a tag team they were headlining major shows (Glory by Honor weekend). Cabana has been a draw in his return so I actually think that match was a step in the right direction for Castle.

 

The early 2017 posters have him prominently featured, the company isn't stupid to his popularity. I don't know if they have the top heel where the base would get so invested in his feud that it would actually boost business. Cody is a possibility. A TV title feud with Scurll isn't anything to scoff at. That belt is nearly as strong as the main title.

[Grimmas]

All very fair points. I do have a question though. Why is he not a money draw? Just maybe because he's not doing anything prominent with the bigger stars.

 

This sounds like WWE saying Bryan wasn't a draw, so they are going with others instead.

 

Could be wrong, don't follow well, but has he ever been given an opportunity?

[Migs]

 

 

Castle should move up the card in 2017 . NJPW is high on Castle , so I would expect him to work Wrestle Kingdom and multiple NJPW tours in 2017. Also I would hope Castle and Marty Scurll to work a TV Title program. ROH now knows he is a money draw.

If ROH knows he is a money draw then they are fucking insanely stupid. It's been obvious for atleast 18 months and he's on the undercard of their biggest show of the year facing Colt Cabana.

 

Wow, he may move up to the TV Title level? Dude should be the focus of the company.

 

 

He's not a money draw. He's one of the more popular acts and is very over, and has been featured on their TV for two years now. But if you look a card like SOTF weekend, with the Bucks, Cole and Lethal in Japan, the attendance was way way down. Those guys are the draws.

 

I know you don't follow the product, but the Cabana match had a story and as a tag team they were headlining major shows (Glory by Honor weekend). Cabana has been a draw in his return so I actually think that match was a step in the right direction for Castle.

 

The early 2017 posters have him prominently featured, the company isn't stupid to his popularity. I don't know if they have the top heel where the base would get so invested in his feud that it would actually boost business. Cody is a possibility. A TV title feud with Scurll isn't anything to scoff at. That belt is nearly as strong as the main title.

 

 

I think part of the issue with him not being in a title picture is the way ROH promotes and structures it's cards. In another promotion, the Cabana match, which absolutely did have a good story behind it, might have been 2nd or 3rd from the top. But ROH almost always goes with the belts on top, for better or worse. So he almost needs to feud for a belt in order to be put in a position to draw (which I guess would point to Scurll being his next feud, which I'm less excited about than others, it seems).

[bradhindsight]

It is like a chicken/egg thing with the money piece. Truly can't measure until he's up against those guys and then you check the effects of this, like return attendance, etc. I think he has the potential to, but its hard (for me) to say they should build the entire thing around him right this minute.

 

One point I forgot was the pinfall he got on Cole this fall in the Champions vs. All-Stars match - and in ROH wins and loses count and are used in storylines to elevate guys (a couple years back they did this with Hansen and Lethal). And sure enough - last night at the tapings, Castle is out to interrupt O'Reilly and Adam Cole with just that.

 

AND at the taping (not spoiling results, just talking points) - the only guy who got over crowd-wise on the Bullet Club was Castle, so maybe we see him elevated and going over Cole if/when Cole departs.

 

Migs - agree, although I actually think it was pretty smart to go to them third as kind of a semi-main after the first two matches. The crowd was buzzing and the atmosphere was great but by the end of the Liger/Silas match they needed Castle.