Loss Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'll give you an example of what I mean. Madmen throughout wrestling history typically come in and outright say they aren't interested in titles. They are there for hire to take people out. They are there because they enjoy beating people up. Whatever the case is, it's explicitly spelled out. I know WWE likes to say everyone wants to be the world champ, but I feel like that's them not keeping a clear WWE Universe narrative and talking about the wrestlers as people instead of the characters. So maybe the Wyatts could be unique to their historical counterparts because they are interested in titles. Or they could be unique to everyone in the current WWE landscape because they aren't interested in titles -- they are there to maim and take people out or whatever the case may be. Either way, it's a missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I see the subtext being that Wyatt needs a platform to spread his cult's message, and wrestling is a place with a young, impressionable audience where he can use the brutes at his disposal without legal reprise. Destroying Cena's white knight image leaves his young fans questioning their values, and leaves them vulnerable to Bray's influence. Or maybe I'm looking into it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 His character is like something you would see in an embarassing fifth rate made for television horror movie, I've seen more believable characters in backyard wrestling. I always thought his character was supposed to be at least partially based on the DeNiro version of Cape Fear, which is certainly not a movie I would call fifth rate or made-for-TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Waylon Mercy was clearly based on DeNiro's character from Cape Fear, right down to the tropical Hawaiian type shirts. Wyatt I guess could be an offshoot of that, although he reminds me more of Charlie Manson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 His character is like something you would see in an embarassing fifth rate made for television horror movie, I've seen more believable characters in backyard wrestling. I always thought his character was supposed to be at least partially based on the DeNiro version of Cape Fear, which is certainly not a movie I would call fifth rate or made-for-TV. I'm with Coffey. The character is straight pulp and I love it. Pulp is lowbrow on the surface but the execution doesn't have to be and that's the case here. I love noir/pulp characters like Rev. Harry Powell in Night of the Hunter or Boyd Crowder in Justified and I wouldn't think that it would work in wrestling, but the Wyatt family is pulling it off very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wyatt I guess could be an offshoot of that, although he reminds me more of Charlie Manson Who's a diva in need of a gimmick change (or, you know, a gimmick)? I feel like, with the exception of the Bryan feud, that Wyatt isn't actively in the business of brainwashing and collecting followers is the weakest part of the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This is obviously a generalization but I'd imagine that anyone who enjoyed Raven in ECW will probably think Bray is fantastic. I loved the Raven character so the Wyatts intrigue me. I get the idea of all the pretentious stuff being spouted out with no meaning or depth but I've always been a sucker for those types. Jake was kinda like that in the 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Hmmm. I hate Raven's character in ECW. I thought he was a horrible, pretentious promo who thought he was being deep and in reality was just being cliche and sounding like a bad community college poet. Everything he said sounded completely unnatural and he used "intelligent" words like it was a big deal. Bray on the other hand sounds much more natural and his character is supposed to be arrogant and kind of delusional. Raven seemed like he thought he was being genius and cutting edge and wasn't. Wyatt isn't either, but he's playing his character really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Raven was slacker X-Gen "oh well whatever nevermind". I always took the character as a rib of sorts. He wasn't the first or last to parody 90's grunge/slacker/x culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I only hate Raven's character because I have such a liking of Scotty Flamingo/Johnny Polo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have to clarify; I don't hate the idea of the character. I hate the performance he gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I see the subtext being that Wyatt needs a platform to spread his cult's message, and wrestling is a place with a young, impressionable audience where he can use the brutes at his disposal without legal reprise. Destroying Cena's white knight image leaves his young fans questioning their values, and leaves them vulnerable to Bray's influence. Or maybe I'm looking into it too much. The subtext is definitely there but Loss' point that it isn't explicitly explained is a salient one. Wyatt's promos are great fun to listen to but they haven't had a mission statement since they debuted. They took Kane out who eventually joined the Authority and Bryan has entered himself into the main event of Mania. If you take the Wyatts on those grounds, they've kinda failed since everyone they've attacked has improved on their position pre-Wyatts. The feud with Cena is interesting to me as its someone attacking Cena's status as de facto WWE hero but aside from Bray's initial promo a couple of weeks ago, he's got himself muddled in riddles. The rhetoric about taking apart the people's hero is a perfectly fine wrestling angle so I don't know why he feels he has to add things on top of it. Basically, you can read into the angle all you want but the majority of people won't. I think the subtext you're describing is great but it needs to be explained in a promo on Raw to really sink in. It sounds like I'm belittling wrestling fans all over the globe but you have to be transparent sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 This is obviously a generalization but I'd imagine that anyone who enjoyed Raven in ECW will probably think Bray is fantastic. I loved the Raven character so the Wyatts intrigue me. I get the idea of all the pretentious stuff being spouted out with no meaning or depth but I've always been a sucker for those types. Jake was kinda like that in the 80s I love Raven. Loved every twist of his character, down to the ridiculous comedic WCW vignettes at his rich house. Bray Wyatt doesn't look remotely as sick, twisted or creepy as Raven to me, because of the sanatized nature of WWE. Plus the Raven character was multi-layered, there was always some comedic, funny, ironic elements about it (which suited the whole gen-X slacker nature of the gimmick too) carried by his entourage. Not to mention the awesome SM gay vibe of the Flock. About the Wyatts, yes, the intro is great, the music is excellent (especially now that 99% of the music themes suck), but when I see the Wyatt Family, they look more like the Godwinns rather than a dangerous cult to me. And really, the heel Godwinns with the Deliverance-like banjo theme looked dirtier. So yeah, I think the gimmick has potential, but the execution and the way WWE product is presented now just hampers it a lot. And really, Bray Wyatt isn't Mankind. He's a whole lot better than Abyss (then again, everbody is), but like I said, Spivey doing Waylon Mercy was creepy and fun. Wyatt is just cute to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I thought he was a horrible, pretentious promo who thought he was being deep and in reality was just being cliche and sounding like a bad community college poet. Hum… that was kinda the character, you know. The self-pity party guy who thinks he's saying profound stuff while blabbing pretentious, morose bullshit about himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Bray's character is definitely going to have to be malleable for a sustained run. Once the Cena feud runs it's course they've already exhausted a lot of the possibilities for what you can do with him in his current state. Hopefully they'll tweak him by developing his ethos, like Loss and Stiva suggest, and not relegate him to campy mid card act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Bray's character is definitely going to have to be malleable for a sustained run. Once the Cena feud runs it's course they've already exhausted a lot of the possibilities for what you can do with him in his current state. Hopefully they'll tweak him by developing his ethos, like Loss and Stiva suggest, and not relegate him to campy mid card act. At some point, you just know that Rowan or Harper (or both) will be doing wacky shit with Santino. Every single monster for the last 15 or so years has ended up being a comedy character at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Harper doing the trombone dance will be a dark day indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 If he could somehow annihilate Santino with the discus clothesline half way into the dance, it might be the best day ever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I thought he was a horrible, pretentious promo who thought he was being deep and in reality was just being cliche and sounding like a bad community college poet. Hum… that was kinda the character, you know. The self-pity party guy who thinks he's saying profound stuff while blabbing pretentious, morose bullshit about himself. Maybe somewhat, but his promos are considered 'good' by a lot of people and they were garbage. I don't buy that it was his gimmick to be a bad talker. Even if it was, his promos I heard it TNA were just as laughable and pretentious. The little bit I've heard of him pre-Raven was on commentary on Coliseum Video and he was awful at that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I just watched one promo from his days as Johnny Polo and it's the same thing. He goes out of his way to complicate his promos so that he will sound 'smarter.' He doesn't understand simplicity. Nick Bockwinkel sounded really intelligent in his promos because of the way he talked and the words he used but it came across the right way. He sounded arrogant but it didn't sound like the guy underneath the character had a complex and had to show how smart he was to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I always saw the Raven character as the modern Gen Xer who thought he knew all the answers but in reality knew nothing. What's funny or ironic is that Scott Levy is probably a little bit too old to be considered part of Gen X. Born in 64 so he's close but I always saw it as people born in late 60s/early 70s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Johnny Polo + Gorilla Mansoon is the greatest odd pairing ever on commentary. Levy was great in this role, too. Yeah, Levy was just a tad bit too old, but he had the look and attitude down pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I mean this as a troll to El-P, even though I honestly mean it, but I would be more interested in a Dean Malenko vs Jimmy Golden vs Yumiko Hotta three-way match than more Raven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efrim Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I think the best I can say for Raven at this point is that as far as bad wrestling stuff goes, nothing makes me genuinely bust a gut laughing quite like a pretentious, non-sensical Raven promo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I mean this as a troll to El-P, even though I honestly mean it, but I would be more interested in a Dean Malenko vs Jimmy Golden vs Yumiko Hotta three-way match than more Raven. Eh eh eh. You actually got a laugh out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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