Current WWE

[dexstar]

My biggest hope right now is that Rose can stick around in a solid spot until 'Mania and we get an entrance with like 200 Rosebuds dancing to fill the entire ramp/stage.

[Strummer]

Mr T and Zeb may have saved this show

[Johnny Sorrow]

Swagger trying to hold it together while Zeb was talking was hilarious. I love watching people try not to laugh. How about the like, two guys yelling "BOOOO" as loud as they can while the whole crowd was singing. They must be a blast to hang out with.

[Strummer]

Holy crap Hunter has leaned down. Orton looks bigger than him now

[Bierschwale]

Batista doesn't get to complain about his booking when he hits that shitty of a spinebuster.

 

Also, Rollins hitting a standing SSP was fucking awesome. You forget how cool those are when you watch matches where you expect to see five of them.

[Johnny Sorrow]

OK, Shield/ Wyatts was awesome and so was the Evolution beat down. I'm all for for gang war between Shield and Evolution, that's good fucking shit.

 

But oy vey, this RAW was boring besides the battle royal, Bryan/ Del Rio, Zeb and Swagger with Rose, and the last segment.

And the camera work stinks. How many great bits got missed?

[Exposer]

Raw was a lot better this week. This was mostly due to good in-ring action. I'm confused about Bray Wyatt. I think he's supposed to be someone who was put down in the world or something and is taking his anger out on all of the people who get adoration or something. I don't know. If that's the case they should have made that clear ten months ago. He also cut a blatantly face promo tonight. It's just weird. I liked Bryan-Del Rio and Shield-Wyatts a lot. Both were very good matches. Every other match had good length and was pretty decent. Sheamus's Brogue Kick was sickening. The Bryan-Kane stuff was incredibly bad. It was the worst of that stuff yet. I loved Adam Rose. He's awesome. So's Zeb. Cesaro was great in the RVD match and those forearms were pretty nasty. Lana praising Edward Snowden was probably overreaching but still kind of funny. Everything else was fine or just there.

[cm funk]

I loved Lana's Snowden line, "but don't worry America, your secrets are safe with Mother Russia....*evil smile*"

 

I was in and out of the room on this show and it wasn't too good from what I did see. Brie is such a bad actress and that whole thing was just so cheesy. Sometimes these angles work......this didn't.

 

Cesaro-RVD was good. Good program for Cesaro right now and good use of RVD. In interviews before he came back when asked who on the roster he'd want to work with he always said Cesaro.

 

I missed almost all of Bryan-Del Rio. Worth checking out when it's uploaded on the Network?

 

The Shield and Wyatts had another standout match. Not my favorite or the best of their series, but it was good. Almost impossible for those 6 to have a bad match. I thought they missed an opportunity to tease something between The Wyatts and Evolution. Just a small tease would have been nice. A triple threat between the 3 groups would be nuts.

 

I get taking the US title off of Ambrose because he's had it forever and doesn't need it, and the battle royale was a good way to do it while keeping him really strong......but Sheamus winning it does absolutely nothing for me. I wouldn't mind seeing a Barrett-Sheamus unification match because they really don't need both belts around and it would be addition by subtraction. It also lacked impact for me when they just changed the IC title 24 hours ago.

 

Adam Rose is fantastic. I don't know how much shelf life the gimmick will have, but I'm going to enjoy it for now. The entrance is great with the crowd surfing, and the crowd already caught on with chanting his theme. That and dancing in the crowd will get over huge. Love the interaction with Zeb. A Rose-Swagger program with Zeb getting into it with the groupies and the rabbit at ringside would be lots of fun.

 

They protected Big E in the loss, but he's in a bad spot now. Lost twice in a row mostly clean and he's not over at all. I'd like to see them go back to the shortlived Big E/Mark Henry tag team. That had a lot of potential and it gives them both some direction. They're kind of thin on tag teams at the moment too.

 

I've been enjoying Rybaxl, but I wish they hadn't depushed The Rhodes Bros so much. They're probably due for a breakup soon so that's another tag team down.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Not here, but I'm loving people on other sites trying to insist that the crowd was silent for Rose, despite the fact that when his music stopped the crowd kept singing it.

[Sean Liska]

WWE always seems to hit a wall in May. The Mania momentum is gone and they haven't started the summer push yet. You can even look at great years like 97 and 2000 and see May was mostly a holding pattern. Hopefully they still put something quality together for Payback because it would be a shame to waste a Chicago crowd with this fun roster.

[sek69]

Not here, but I'm loving people on other sites trying to insist that the crowd was silent for Rose, despite the fact that when his music stopped the crowd kept singing it.

 

 

People saying that probably watched his NXT debut where the Full Sail crowd went completely apeshit for the entrance, complete with a "that was awesome" chant. Not to mention in NXT the announcers completely laid out and let whatever happen play out naturally instead of on Raw where Michael Cole sounded like a dad trying too hard to be hip saying how cool the dancing was.

[El-P]

We're in 2014 and they are still running godawful Z-movies inspired angles with Kane. This was right out of WCW 1999, and I know what I'm talking about. Just awful stuff.

 

Adam Rose's entrance was fun, especially with Dutch (sorry, can't call this guy Zeb) caught in the middle. Hopefully for him he doesn't turn into Fandango though.

[anarchistxx]

Raw was really boring, I fast forwarded most of it. If there are two people I don't want to see anywhere near Daniel Bryan it is Alberto Del Rio and Kane. They can't really think this faux scary made for television horror movie stchick still works. When has a Kane feud based around creepy supernatural things ever drew a dime since the turn of the century? Every face champion seems to get lumbered with him, just lazy, lazy booking. Especially galling that they present it despite having Kane work as a regular corporate guy in a suit for months, now he is suddenly capable of making masks glow in the dark and turning lights off wirelessly like one of those automatic energy saving home electricity systems. It would have been excusable if they had booked the feud around their history as tag partners, but there hasn't been any mention. Clearly supernatural is preferable to storyline reality even in the 'reality era'.

 

Then you have another long, rambling Bray Wyatt promo that says absolutely nothing. His interviews come off as so phoney and scripted to me, and he needs a lot of improvement in ring as well - he is constantly put in a position to have great matches and doesn't often deliver unless he has super talented opponents.

 

Main event was solid but probably the worst of their matches, not really a fan of Roman Reigns taking the fall either.

 

 

 

instead of on Raw where Michael Cole sounded like a dad trying too hard to be hip saying how cool the dancing was.

 

The funny thing about this is that Michael Cole is clearly one of the least cool people to ever appear on television, yet we are expected to take such enthusiastic proclamations seriously. The announces are getting unbearable, although it is almost certainly the fault of whoever is screaming in their ears, no way is JBL screaming all these buzzwords and soundbites all night of his own accord, especially in that over excited voice that everyone knows is total bullshit. Lawler's jokes are beyond awful as well, and given he repeats the same ones on show after show you have to think the writers are giving him the material.

 

It's weird, in some respects the are going beyond the PG rating in recent weeks, with 'bitch' and 'bastard' on television, Roman Reigns coughing up blood and a more violent, chaotic show at Extreme Rules. Then with the announcing it is the most lame, safe, scripted stuff designed to shill products and offer no opinions other than that the company wants to push, like they are scared of the commentators saying anything that could be construed as offensive.

[dexstar]

I was pretty down on the show last night but not gonna freak out for a couple reasons -

 

1. Personally, I haven't missed a Raw since ... August? So that's a lot of Raw. And I've attended a PPV and ordered the rest in that timeframe. Combine with the Network and the other wrestling I watch on YouTube and such, I'm probably getting a bit jaded.

2. With all the talk about Batista being unhappy and not wanting to do the Bryan match at Payback for whatever reason, how much of the cluster last night was from trying to come up with ways to extend Kane-Bryan and adjust plans on the fly? If that's the case, there's certainly a case to be made for being better prepared, but that's a slightly different discussion. I'm holding on to the belief that last night, while rough, was a product of circumstance and things will get stronger.

[Eduardo]

Earlier in the day yesterday, I was thinking, "Please WWE, don't do a Cinco De Mayo segment." Awful segment. Cringeworthy.

[SomethingSavage]

What's with the backlash against Bray's mic work lately? I don't get it. I mean, I've seen the over-hyping and overrating of his stuff on other boards. I get the feeling that some fans are on the bandwagon, pimping & praising it a little too much too soon. But it's not grating. Plus it's easy to see why fans WOULD get excited about - oh, ya know - having a NEW, FRESH guy that can actually talk and hold his own on the mic.

 

His stuff comes across as structured, sure. But overly scripted? Nah. Planned and mapped out is one thing. But he's not monotonous. It's all in the delivery, man. And he's got a TREMENDOUS grasp on that. He's got GREAT presence for a guy that's so new to the big stage scene. The fact that he's shown next to no nervousness in giving this grandiose, wordy declarations is a testament to just how terrific he is for the role.

[anarchistxx]

How much of his 'presence' is down to the production team, though? His segments are lit and sountracked to give them automatic presence, helped by videos and cuts. Compare that to someone like Big E Langston who was given absolutely no production sheen to help him appear charismatic and important.

 

My problem with his promos is twofold:

 

a. they ramble and don't say anything that isn't a generalist cliche, they don't do a good job of getting over his motivations

b. they seem overly scripted

 

We obviously differ on the second point - I don't see how anyone could watch those boring segments and think he was speaking off the cuff, a lot of it seems unnatural to me. His delivery is hit and miss, sometimes it is good sometimes it just makes you cringe. Overall he lacks any particular message and comes over as unthreatening and not nearly as scary or creepy as they want him to be. The commentators are constantly told to sell the 'people following a charismatic leader' rhetoric, but without giving any reason whatsoever why anyone would follow him. Who does he represent? What are his opinions and motivations? Why does he want to 'expose the dark side of John Cena'?

 

You also say he has shown no nervousness, but a lot of his scenes are filmed backstage. Sure, he has confidence and presence that is slightly unique for a new guy, but no more than Seth Rollins or even Dolph Ziggler. Could he carry out an off the cuff promo? I'd like to see him do something that comes over as natural.

 

I don't feel like he has fully earned his exposure at the top of the card, and the amount of time that gets devoted to his promos. Arguably the amount of time works against him, as he just covers old ground. The product doesn't move fast enough, so you get week after week of him saying the same things about Cena.

[dexstar]

I haven't really seen the problem with his motivation. He represents nerdy outcasts who wear fedoras and shit. He looks like the kid who plays Magic or whatever the "jocks" are making fun of these days, except he's got a more threatening physical presence.

 

He's constantly referencing representing people who have been bullied, teased, whatever. Cena is like the stereotypical ultimate HS quarterback. Bray wants to expose him as a coward and as a hypocrite to show that these people don't have the power they think they do. And, at Bray's core, we're left to wonder if he's really all that different from the Cena's he purports to hate.

 

I feel like the commentary has done an ok job of explaining this, and the promos (including choice of song for the WM video - Eminem, Legacy) have also advanced this point. By focusing on the kid aspect, it's them trying to show Bray is turning Cena's most loyal advocates against him, which rattles Cena more than the people who have always been against him (us, basically) still being against him.

 

There's some room for improvement, certainly, but I'm not really feeling the backlash either. We spend years clamoring for new main eventers and then they make an honest push to get Bray over as a top of the card guy with all the promo time and hype that entails, and people start shitting on it.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

He represents nerdy outcasts who wear fedoras and shit. He looks like the kid who plays Magic or whatever the "jocks" are making fun of these days,

 

I don't know that he does, really. Since when do 'computer nerds' wear hawaii shirts and straw hats? In my experience they usually stay at home in plain, ill fitting clothes and do code and programming or play video games. Wyatt has nothing in common with shy, bullied kids except for his rants about how society has rejected him.

 

 

 

Bray wants to expose him as a coward and as a hypocrite to show that these people don't have the power they think they do.

 

Why doesn't he say so, then? He claims wants to bring out the 'monster' in Cena, not the jock bully you talk about. You are reading between the lines too much and putting your own slant on it - none of this has been made explicit or even implicit, except in the last couple of weeks when there is the occasional reference to Wyatt representing those who have been rejected by society.

 

 

 

and the promos (including choice of song for the WM video - Eminem, Legacy) have also advanced this point.

 

Not sure how using a nondescript, past his prime commercial rapper really enhances this. Eminem is pretty clean cut and establishment - this isn't 1999, he isn't the voice of white trash kids any longer. Why not use an alternative artist?

 

My biggest gripe is that the promos are boring. You can't have a supposedly magnetic, charismatic character and then have him cut boring, repetitive promos.

[Loss]

Bray's heat belongs to Cena, not Bray. As soon as he feuds with another babyface that people actually like, he won't get cheered anymore. He doesn't have a following. It's more that Cena has an exodus.

[dexstar]

 

He represents nerdy outcasts who wear fedoras and shit. He looks like the kid who plays Magic or whatever the "jocks" are making fun of these days,

 

I don't know that he does, really. Since when do 'computer nerds' wear hawaii shirts and straw hats? In my experience they usually stay at home in plain, ill fitting clothes and do code and programming or play video games. Wyatt has nothing in common with shy, bullied kids except for his rants about how society has rejected him.

 

 

Bray wants to expose him as a coward and as a hypocrite to show that these people don't have the power they think they do.

 

Why doesn't he say so, then? He claims wants to bring out the 'monster' in Cena, not the jock bully you talk about. You are reading between the lines too much and putting your own slant on it - none of this has been made explicit or even implicit, except in the last couple of weeks when there is the occasional reference to Wyatt representing those who have been rejected by society.

 

 

 

and the promos (including choice of song for the WM video - Eminem, Legacy) have also advanced this point.

 

Not sure how using a nondescript, past his prime commercial rapper really enhances this. Eminem is pretty clean cut and establishment - this isn't 1999, he isn't the voice of white trash kids any longer. Why not use an alternative artist?

 

My biggest gripe is that the promos are boring. You can't have a supposedly magnetic, charismatic character and then have him cut boring, repetitive promos.

 

 

Forgive the jacked up formatting here as I try to figure out how best to respond point by point, if I screw something up

 

1. I don't know that he does, really. Since when do 'computer nerds' wear hawaii shirts and straw hats? In my experience they usually stay at home in plain, ill fitting clothes and do code and programming or play video games. Wyatt has nothing in common with shy, bullied kids except for his rants about how society has rejected him.

He's a composite. Fedoras are a pretty common internet meme for neckbeards, a general form of geek. It's not super specific but this is big tent wrestling and I wouldn't expect it to be hammered down onto one specific outcast. The beard, odd fashion choices, and hat give me that impression.

2. Why doesn't he say so, then? He claims wants to bring out the 'monster' in Cena, not the jock bully you talk about. You are reading between the lines too much and putting your own slant on it - none of this has been made explicit or even implicit, except in the last couple of weeks when there is the occasional reference to Wyatt representing those who have been rejected by society.

You have a good point about my own slant. That's just what I've been getting from his promos. I can't go back and grab specifics right now so I won't say it's been super clear but I feel like it's been mentioned as motivation more than we've given it credit for. It could definitely be a bit more clear but how clear is allowed before complain about the Sledgehammer of Plot?

3. Not sure how using a nondescript, past his prime commercial rapper really enhances this. Eminem is pretty clean cut and establishment - this isn't 1999, he isn't the voice of white trash kids any longer. Why not use an alternative artist?

I didn't mean that using Eminem was anything special, more including his name for reference if someone didn't know the song I'm talking about. The song itself has lyrics all about the experiences of an outcast child who is beat up at school and comes from a broken home and his battle with society. I don't disagree that Eminem is pretty damn establishment at this point, but I can see why WWE is going to use artists like Imagine Dragons and Eminem for their big video promos over something way more obscure. To be clear, I'm not a fan of the new Eminem or anything, I just see the lyrical content of that particular song advancing that particular interpretation of the Wyatt character.

I think the "boring" criticism is valid but hard to argue. I don't find myself bored. That gets more into a matter of taste and I can't sit here and say "hey, you're an idiot for being bored" because that's silly.

I'm defending Wyatt a bit here and I realize my avatar is me in a Wyatt mask so I want to point out I don't think has been a perfectly executed push or angle by any stretch. The singing has been beaten into the ground really badly. The commentary hasn't been very helpful (which seems to run across every program in the company). The lack of any meaningful backstory or reason for the very existence of Harper/Rowan takes away from it all for me. The lantern entrance is a minor detail but infuriates me every week with the whole "lighting it just to blow it out" thing. I think that some of the issues with the feud and the character are growing pains though and I don't like calling it a failure or hating on them too much because it's nice to see a serious, legitimate attempt at something new on top.

To go back to your point about me reading too much into things, I think that's a valid criticism of WWE booking (they leave quite a bit either to imagination and some of the littler details are shunted off to the real low audience Network pre-post show type features) but that's how I watch and I think it's a key reason why I don't often come away from Raw thinking "worst show ever". I'll certainly concede that leaving that much responsibility up to the viewer is probably not the best business strategy.

[Matt D]

Bray's heat belongs to Cena, not Bray. As soon as he feuds with another babyface that people actually like, he won't get cheered anymore. He doesn't have a following. It's more that Cena has an exodus.

 

I think they should move him on to be involved in the Rhodes' brothers' break up after this. I'm not sure that makes booking sense but I kind of want to see it.

[(BP)]

The interesting thing about Cena's promos during this feud is that he's saying he knows what's best for the audience and he has to save them from Bray even if they don't like it. It's the kind of totalitarian babyface schtick that was Hogan's bag during the 80's.

[Eduardo]

Perhaps the fedora is a clue that Bray Wyatt is an MRA.

[dexstar]

Perhaps the fedora is a clue that Bray Wyatt is an MRA.

 

Laughing pretty hard at this.

 

And also now picturing Bray typing his promos into /r/atheism or /r/conspiracy and laughing some more.