JerryvonKramer Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 In this thread, I'm talking about occasions where two guys hate each other so much that the rivalry seems like its beyond wrestling and getting into the depths of their souls. Where it feels like there is more than just a match at stake but their pride, their manhood, even their entire values systems. This is quite rare. I am not talking about great or well worked rivalries, for example, Austin vs. McMahon as good as it is does not have it. I am talking about times where there's just something intensely personal about the hatred these two men have for each other. I can only think of three examples: 1. Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard, not just the "I Quit" match at Starrcade 85 but some of the segments leading up to it as well. 2. Jumbo vs. Tenryu 3. And this is a weaker pick, but it still has it to an extent, Savage vs. Flair, particularly in the 95-96 version. I cannot think of other examples that reach those levels of intensity. You feel like Jumbo and Tenryu are genuinely affronted by each other. There are times when Jumbo looks as if he's going to be sick at Tenryu's antics. It's not about being the better wrestler it's about a million and one things. I feel that with Savage and Flair too. There's something there. I can't put my finger on it, but it's not there, for example, with the Savage - Jake feud from 91, as great as that is. It's not there in any iteration of Flair - Sting or Flair - Steamboat or Flair - Hogan. It may be there in the Bischoff feud but it's been a long time since I've seen that. If you understand what I'm talking about here, what I want in this thread is some other feuds or even single matches that you could point to that have this extremely rare quality. It's not necessarily about being well worked, there's something else there, almost something that can't be faked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Dundee vs. Lawler had this quality in most of their high profile matches. Also think you can definitely chalk up Shawn vs. Bret from Survivor Series 1997 due to the uneasy nature that match had even before the screwjob. Austin vs. Hart in 1997 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hokuto vs Kandori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 It's actually not quite rare. The Snuka/ Muraco feud was full of crazy hate. I know Muraco isn't the most popular guy around here, but everything leading up to the big cage match was intense. Speaking of Snuka, the Snuka/ Piper feud was insane. You really felt these two guys hated each others guts and wanted to kill each other. Kevin Von Erich vs. Chris Adams was a feud that felt totally real. Former friends who now want to rip each others hearts out. The brief Bruno vs. Savage stuff while Steamboat was "out of action" thanks to Savage felt full of hate. When Bruno snapped on Savage with "You're PROUD? YOU SLIME!!!!" and then old man Bruno went to whoopin' some ass...man, shit was ON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 And Bruno vs Larry Z was a pretty intense feud. Don't forget Tito vs Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I always felt that Duggan and Buzz Sawyer from Mid-South had that legit I hate you vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I wanted to say Misawa/Kawada, but then realized all the hate is on Kawada's side. Misawa was usually the stoic sportsman, rarely ever showing much emotion. Bret/Shawn is too easy, right? We can probably disqualify anything where the guys really hated each other. And of all damn things, you know what comes to mind? Tommy Dreamer and Brian Lee. Neither of those guys were exactly the greatest wrestlers nor most emotive performers in the world, but somehow you put them in the ring together and then suddenly the brutality goes off the charts. That felt less like the "wander through the crowd while grabbing wacky weapons from the fans" typical ECW crap and more like genuine bloodthirst. Along the same lines, the Rikishi/Val Venis minifeud from 2000 was way better and filled with more hatred than it had any right to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Dreamer versus Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Kevin Sullivan vs Chris Benoit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Midnight Rockers vs. Rose/Sommers seemed pretty damn intense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 The Eddie Kingston/Chris Hero rivalry had some hate. I guess there was something real there between them, but they really brought it to the ring. The feud stretched over a few indie promotions for a few years. I love their brawl at the '07 TPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 As for as Indies go Generico/Steen is a really good intense feud. One of the better feuds in the past few years imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Bret Hart/Jerry Lawler, in '93 specifically. The anger at the end of that SummerSlam match is palpable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterira Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Buzz Sawyer vs Tommy Rich. I dont think its hyperbole when people say that they were never the same after this feud. I believe it to be true. I think it aged them 10 years in the 2 year feud. If you go back and watch it now you can actually see them breaking down right in front of you. Of course they both had a ton of personal demons. Buzz Sawyer was a phenomenal wrestler, he was a wrestling machine and just brutal. But his demons got the best of him. Watch his promos from this time and you can sense he was really a tortured soul. He was literally insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Dusty Rhodes/Ole Anderson is your winner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCIgLQGruvs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterira Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Dusty Rhodes/Ole Anderson is your winner. One of my favorite wrestling moments. Ole is perfect here, Its the best turn ever in my opinion. I always thought Ole was pretty underrated on the mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 That is one of my all time favorite wrestling segments as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 All time classic angle. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Solomon Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I always felt that Duggan and Buzz Sawyer from Mid-South had that legit I hate you vibe. Duggan in his book does say that Sawyer got too rough with his wife in angle run at the Irish McNeil boys club in 1985. Duggan thought that Sawyer was a jerkoff for doing that to his wife and being too rough with her. It was an angle to set up a mtahc in the Superdome thanksgiving 85 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I wanted to say Misawa/Kawada, but then realized all the hate is on Kawada's side. Misawa was usually the stoic sportsman, rarely ever showing much emotion. Yeah, I thought about mentioning Misawa/Kawada. Most of that hinges on the fact that Misawa was Baba's favourite. Then of course, when Baba dies, Misawa leads a mass-walkout and starts up a rival promotion, whereas Kawada stayed, professing that it was "Baba's wishes". So yeah, it all seems to be on Kawada's side. Both were so well matched together, that even with no personal issues, they would still have had stunning matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I think people are missing the obvious: Kawada vs Taue before The Handshake Now those two fuckers hated each other in the ring. Contempt and feeling ill treated turning into hate. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I wanted to say Misawa/Kawada, but then realized all the hate is on Kawada's side. Misawa was usually the stoic sportsman, rarely ever showing much emotion. Yeah, I thought about mentioning Misawa/Kawada. Most of that hinges on the fact that Misawa was Baba's favourite. Then of course, when Baba dies, Misawa leads a mass-walkout and starts up a rival promotion, whereas Kawada stayed, professing that it was "Baba's wishes". So yeah, it all seems to be on Kawada's side. Both were so well matched together, that even with no personal issues, they would still have had stunning matches. From what I've heard it was Misawa who disliked Kawada more than Kawada being jealous of Misawa or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 If you believe (yeah, I know) the interviews from workers who toured with All Japan, Kawada isn't exactly the most personnable guy. Anyone mentionned Choshu vs Fujinami yet ? Damn Choshu was an abrasive bastard. And of course, Chiggy vs Dump. I mean, come on. Schoolgirl crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Damn Choshu was an abrasive bastard. He pissed off Akira Maeda, something good! (although Maeda was an incredibly abrasive bastard in his own right, see the match with Andre) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Bill Dundee vs Wolfie D in 96. Maybe that is a little too real for this topic though. Dundee tried to stab Wolfie after some show over merch payoffs and got fired. Months later, he comes back and they have a great feud. End the year teaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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