MikeCampbell Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Let's say that Sheiky, out of loyalty to Verne, went ahead and broke Hogan's leg and took the WWF title to Minnesota? Is the WWF's expansion dead in the water, or does Vince forge on using Snuka, JYD, Steamboat, Backlund, or someone else and everythings turns out AOK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Isn't that all bullshit? Besides, let's say Sheik actually broke Hogan's leg. How would that end up with him taking the WWF title to Minnesota? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Isn't that all bullshit? Greg says it is. The same guy claimed that he and Verne bumped into Dana White in 1992 and told him about doing shoot matches and thus the UFC is born. Not that Sheik is the fountain of cred, but, given the choice, I'll take Sheik's word over Greg's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 If Iron Sheik was so loyal to Verne, why did he go to WWF in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 He wanted to humble that no good Backlund jabroni, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 If Iron Sheik was so loyal to Verne, why did he go to WWF in the first place? A million guys came and went, that was the way the territories worked. Verne had no issue with that, it was Vince's having his guys jump at the last second and screw over Verne that was the issue he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 If Iron Sheik was so loyal to Verne, why did he go to WWF in the first place? A million guys came and went, that was the way the territories worked. Verne had no issue with that, it was Vince's having his guys jump at the last second and screw over Verne that was the issue he had. Yea it was more about leaving without a notice than just leaving.If I'm booking and my top star tells me he's leaving in 2 weeks that's no good. But at least with 2 weeks I can try to come up with some way to write them out and try and keep the fans from turning on the promotion for a top star leaving without notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 OOPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Just so we can get rid of a Scott Keithism (I'm using that figuratively as I'm not sure he's the first one to say the following claim), but the reason Hulk Hogan never got the AWA strap is not due to Verne having a dogma that only "real wrestlers" should hold the strap, no matter who was drawing (which is an ironic claim if it's true that Hogan bested Verne in multiple shoots), but because Verne had loyalty to Baba, and Hogan was an Inoki guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 So, back to the original reason I stared this topic. Does anyone think that if Sheik went through with it, that the WWF was toast? I think they'd have been hurt in the short term, because there really wasn't anyone else who could have spearheaded things like Hogan. Snuka's problems were well known, and they hadn't yet signed JYD or Steamboat. Perhaps they go back to Backlund in the short term, or they speed up the Slaugher babyface turn. But, if Sheik is gone, who does that leave Sarge to defend the US against? Mr. Fuji and Tiger Chun Li? Maybe Backlund transitions to Paul Orndorff or Superstar, who can then put over Hogan when he heals up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 No. They would have ignored that it happened, and still pushed Hogan as Champ. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 No. They would have ignored that it happened, and still pushed Hogan as Champ. John How can Hogan defend the championship with a broken leg? I think the end result for the WWF would end up being the same due to Vince's business strategy. However, what I'm wondering is how much credibility Hogan would lose and what kind of push he would have if any when he heals from the injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 No. They would have ignored that it happened, and still pushed Hogan as Champ. John How can Hogan defend the championship with a broken leg? I think the end result for the WWF would end up being the same due to Vince's business strategy. However, what I'm wondering is how much credibility Hogan would lose and what kind of push he would have if any when he heals from the injury. Well first off they fire & blackball Shiek. Then they have Hogan vignettes training like Rocky. & then they make a storyline about how Shiek was payed off by ____ heel & bam you got a program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 First they have Jimmy Hart come out and ask what they do with horses with a broken leg. Then they bring in Paul Ellering. Then they use Dundee and Valiant on the face side, and let Tommy Rich be an awesome frigging heel. Then they use suddenly heel Valiant to turn Rich face by using his mother. When you end up with Bobby Eaton with a crown on his head you know you're in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 First they have Jimmy Hart come out and ask what they do with horses with a broken leg. Then they bring in Paul Ellering. Then they use Dundee and Valiant on the face side, and let Tommy Rich be an awesome frigging heel. Then they use suddenly heel Valiant to turn Rich face by using his mother. When you end up with Bobby Eaton with a crown on his head you know you're in business. Tremendous. Where does Billy Robinson fit in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I assume if Sheik shoots on Hogan, it's during the title match. So Hogan doesn't get the title, at least not then. The problem though is that fans aren't going to flock to the AWA to watch the Iron Sheik. And if Verne couldn't take advantage of having Hulkamania first, I doubt he sustains business here either. All it accomplishes is blackballing Sheik from wrestling. As far as the legitimacy of the story, the only people in position to know for certain are Sheik and Gagne. Any person who has told the story (I know Bobby Heenan mentioned it in his book) would've had to have heard it from the Sheik himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Crackers Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I can't find a clip of it online but Iron Sheik has definitely told this story before. it may have even been in WWE's History of AWA documentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 No. They would have ignored that it happened, and still pushed Hogan as Champ. John How can Hogan defend the championship with a broken leg? If it happened on the night Hogan was suppose to win the title, they wait until Hogan gets healthy and have him win the title at that point. It's easy enough to get the belt off Sheik to someone else in a fictional title change. If it happened after Hogan won the title, they simply would have had Hogan wait to defend the title until he was ready to come back. Not hard to do. I think the end result for the WWF would end up being the same due to Vince's business strategy. However, what I'm wondering is how much credibility Hogan would lose and what kind of push he would have if any when he heals from the injury. He wouldn't have. How exactly would WWF fans in 1984 have learned about it? In turn, there would be no footage for Verne to play on AWA TV. It's Verne's word, Sheik talking shit, and all that jazz. It's not like Sheik was a major star when he won the WWF Title. What made him a star was: * losing to Hogan * going around the horn with Hogan * Slaughter-Sheik * the WWF going national None of which happen if Sheik runs off to the AWA claiming to be the WWF Champ. Go in the other direction. What would Verne do with Sheik? Job his title claim to the AWA Champ at the first chance. What was Verne up to with the AWA Champ in mid/late Jan 1984? Verne knew by that point that Bock was going to drop the title to Jumbo. I don't know if we've ever gotten the truth, or ever will, if Verne knew in January 1984 that it was going Nick --> Jumbo --> Martel rather than simply back to Nick. Martel winning the title always felt like a reaction to Hogan winning the title, as opposed to Heel Nick holding the belt almost entirely from from 11/75 - 2/84 other than the Verne Final Dance and the Wanz turn around. But maybe that was the plan even in January 1984. If it was, when does Sheik drop his claim to the AWA Champ? To Bock before Bock goes to Japan? To Jumbo? Wait until May (actually June) to drop it to Martel? That's a hell of a long time to wait, especially with a wrestler who has already proven himself untrustworthy given breaking Hogan's leg. Doesn't quiet add up where the AWA benefits from this. All they do is piss Hogan and Vince off. My guess is that Vince and Hogan would be even more focused on killing off the AWA, and other than open areas like California and running in their own existing territory, they much just focus all their efforts to kill the AWA quickly. You also have to wonder how loyal some of the folks in the AWA will stay when they find out that Verne paid Sheik to break another wrestlers leg. Even if it's Hogan and Vince, there is a code of respect/honor in the business... it's very much a business where in the ring you don't break a guys leg, especially when you've agreed to go in and drop a title to them. I mean... you think Martel wants to work for that guy? Or if Vince offers him $250K in cash to show up at the next WWF taping with the AWA title, that Rick might not think it's better to head to the WWF than stick around an asshole promoter who thinks it's cool to break worker's legs? Not sure how any of this plays out well for Verne. For Vince and Hogan, they would just wait to heal up and kill the AWA. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Was the only reason Sheik was chosen as the transitional champ in the first place because Backlund only wanted to drop the title to someone with a legit background? Is there any truth to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I always thought it was Standard Operating Procedure to use a heel transitional champ (Koloff, Stasiak, Graham). Face vs Face matches always ended up in inconclusive finishes because if done wrong it could lead to an alienation of a portion of fanbase. Theoretically (practically in the 80s), having heels job/look bad does not lead to alienation of any segment of the fanbase. Hogan over Sheik is a guaranteed 100% pop. Hogan over Backlund you cant be sure. So why risk it. Plus I don't know what the plans for Backlund were in a Hulkamania world. I know a heel turn was in order and have heard that it bandy around that it included a dye job, but I don't think was much value to Backlund passing the torch to Hogan and I think that is fleshed out by how much of a cash cow the Hulkamania era was. There was no point in damaging babyface Backlund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 The old story I recall was Vince wanting Backlund to dye his hair green and become a "punk rocker". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I can't find a clip of it online but Iron Sheik has definitely told this story before. it may have even been in WWE's History of AWA documentary. Sheik tells this story every chance he gets. It seems to pop up in every shoot he's done, and he even told it during his HOF induction speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Verne knew by that point that Bock was going to drop the title to Jumbo. I don't know if we've ever gotten the truth, or ever will, if Verne knew in January 1984 that it was going Nick --> Jumbo --> Martel rather than simply back to Nick. Martel winning the title always felt like a reaction to Hogan winning the title, as opposed to Heel Nick holding the belt almost entirely from from 11/75 - 2/84 other than the Verne Final Dance and the Wanz turn around. But maybe that was the plan even in January 1984. Martel talks about getting the title in his Shoot interview. He said he had a good offer from the WWF to come in and Verne, acting on the advice of Nick Bockwinkel, offered Rick the title to come in/stay in the AWA. Bockwinkel himself has said in many interviews that he pushed for Martel to get the belt. That gives me the impression that Verne saw what was going to happen with Hogan and wanted his own babyface champion. Martel was the best choice available and was an easy pick with Nick backing him for the spot. I think Bock-to Jumbo-to Martel was planned right from the get-go to allow for the "You never beat me for the title, Martel" Bockwinkel matches that occurred in the wake of Rick beating Jumbo. A lot of the fans would have expected Bock to get the belt back on that first go-around between the pair. After all, Bock had been champ for the better part of 9 years, so AWA fans were expecting that to have a good chance of continuing. Most interesting to me was Martel talking about how getting the AWA title was a big enough thing that he felt it was a huge career opportunity that he couldn't turn down. I think it illustrates how well thought of working in the AWA (lighter-than-average schedule, good pay) was at the time. BTW I've never put any stock in the Iron Sheik-getting-paid-off-by-Verne story. I would guess that Verne probably made some sort of wild statements like that to someone at his angriest when Hogan bailed and went to the WWF, but there was nothing behind them. I envision something like this happening: Verne: "Sonofabitch HOGAN! Goddamn McMahon! They want war, I'll give it to them! Maybe I'll start with getting Khorsow to fuck him up and come back here with their fucking belt!!" Greg: "Now Dad, really, that wouldn't work and would be bad for business on so many levels." Verne: "Ah shit, you're right, but dammit I wish I could pay Vaziri to fuck Hogan up!!!" **later** Greg, talking to Brunzell: "Dad was so pissed he almost called up Khorsow to break Hogan's leg. Said he'd bring him back here for big bucks as a Hogan-killer." Brunzell: "Really? Shit, he must've been pissed." **18 months later** Vaziri: "Goddamm Mr. Jim Brunzell, is-a so good to see you here with Sheiky again. No see you for so long. how is old Verne?" Brunzell: "Nice to see you, Khorsow. yeah, Verne is pissed at the world right now, with everyone leaving to come over here. Shit, he was gonna call you up and offer you megabucks to break Hogan's leg back in '84." *** ...and on it went, from there, through today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'd love to see a thread with khawk doing this for all the apocraphyl stories we've been handed down over the years through shoots. Loved reading that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Wouldn't have mattered. Broken leg is no biggie for Hulk. He kept going after tearing every muscle in his back slamming Andre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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