sek69 Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 It seems to me that people are just pre-emptively shitting on this because they are afraid HHH and/or Vince will fuck it up and they don't want to be disappointed if that happens. Personally, I find it hilarious that Bryan has become the most over babyface in a long time by basically doing the same gimmick Cena's been doing since he stopped rapping. He fights the odds and never gives up, only he does it in a way that endears himself to the audience instead of coming off as the QB of the football team who bangs all the cheerleaders trying to paint himself as an underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I don't see the Bryan / Cena link personally. Bryan has been playing a plucky underdog who believes he can get the job done. I don't remember the same dynamic for Cena in any situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Wait... you are dogging a show and comparing it to other shows when you haven't watched the entire card yet? If you haven't watched it yet then you are just raining on people's parade I'm not dogging the show - I said it was very good earlier in the thread. But calling it the greatest WWE PPV of all time is ridiculous hyperbole, and a fairly absurd claim to make only two days after the show when the dust has barely settled. I only missed maybe twenty minutes of the card, so unless those twenty minutes contained an amazing MOTYC (which nobody is arguing) then I am in a reasonable position to assess the show. You can still have a fair opinion on Revolver if your copy doesn't have 'Doctor Robert' on it; you could still make an argument that it wasn't as good as Abbey Road. Maybe if your disc was missing 'Tomorrow Never Knows' or 'Eleanor Rigby' you would be less well placed to make that argument. Definte "mark of either guy." Because I've actually been pretty critical of Christian since the heel turn in 2011 and while I like Del Rio more than some, I was pretty critical of him in a post on this forum not that long ago I suppose you're more of a WWE mark in general, but you do seem particularly well disposed to Alberto del Rio Christian especially. Without wanting to go overboard on the music references, I feel like you arguing for Christian as a top level guy is like me trying to claim Midlake are one of the greatest bands of all time, just because I personally think Van Occupanther is a classic. "I didn't watch it but here's why it sucked..." is the worst thing you see all the time on wrestling message boards. So awful. Not what I said at all. My point was it was a very good show, that wasn't on the level of the truly great all time PPVs. My only comments regarding Del Rio/Christian was that it probably wasn't that good, considering the previous work of both guys. I never said it did suck, but either way I'm sure I wouldn't have enjoyed it and it wouldn't have added anything to the show for me. I was actually more well disposed towards the show having not seen it. It is almost like despite all the historical evidence his personal bias don't allow him to believe the match is good. It's like he is a Christian v. ADR denier. Quite the opposite - the historical evidence suggested it was going to be a load of shit, so I didn't bother watching to find out. If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it etc etc. Knowing all that I do I shouldn't think you would understand that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 As much as I wanted to, I couldn't take Christian seriously as a challenger. But he's one of the smartest workers around, and Del Rio is very good in his own right. I actually think Del Rio has been one of the best workers in the company this year, babyface and heel. "Historical evidence says it's going to be a load of shit" is completely f'n absurd. It is probably better that you just don't bother watching the match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Yeah I'm really bored with Triple H but he's only in his 40's, we have like 20 years of this to go, and if he's going to be around I vastly prefer him as a heel. Orton has no business being a face either. So in the big picture I like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm not a WWE apologist, and I myself have not watched Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio either, although I'm sure I'll enjoy it when I go back and watch the rest of the card. I just skipped to the two main events with the intent to watch the rest when I have more time. I've actually done this with every Del Rio PPV match from the last 3 months. But they wound up being my favorite matches of the card the past 2 months against Dolph Ziggler. Ever since the double turn match at Payback I feel like Del Rio has really stepped up his game. I thought his babyface run was a terrible miscast and even the end of his last heel run felt really tired. But now I'm interest in him in the first time in over a year. He's gotten more vicious in the ring and making some character changes like dumping Ricardo. Now all he needs is some super hot valet. And someone to have a real feud with. The Dolph deal was overshadowed by the AJ stuff and the Christian match was pretty much just thrown together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I don't see the Bryan / Cena link personally. Bryan has been playing a plucky underdog who believes he can get the job done. I don't remember the same dynamic for Cena in any situation. Pretty much every time Cena faces someone bigger than him it's built up as "can he beat the odds and defeat this massive beast", and his mantra of never giving up is a staple of his t-shirt line. What made it stick out to me is Bryan is someone who is believable as an underdog, as opposed to trying to paint SuperCena as someone who could ever possibly *not* beat the odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I don't see the Bryan / Cena link personally. Bryan has been playing a plucky underdog who believes he can get the job done. I don't remember the same dynamic for Cena in any situation. Pretty much every time Cena faces someone bigger than him it's built up as "can he beat the odds and defeat this massive beast", and his mantra of never giving up is a staple of his t-shirt line. But isn't that the role of any babyface facing a monster? No trying to nit pick, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 At least you watched this card. I don't think the 2 main events of SSLam 2011 were as good as the top 2 main events on this card but we can argue that some more. What third match from 2011 matches Christian-ADR in your opinion?Bryan-Barrett was awfully good and about on the same level but I thought this years show was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Now all he needs is some super hot valet. Its a shame Rosa is apparently having issues IRL because they had a great slow-burning relationship tease going on like two years ago on Smackdown and I so wanted it to come to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Let's see what all the fuss is about then. Not read any comments, don't know results. Good start as various non-descript Nu-Metal songs play and The Miz walks out looking like a Pixar character. I'm going to have to try to block out my ongoing problems with basic WWE presentation for this. This has to be better than WM. "Glitz-and-glam to has-been" video is pretty good. This version of Paul Heyman looks like he's been fun. Random thought: I've just realised that my mental image of Dylan Waco is Daniel Bryan. Does Dylan even have a beard? I dunno, but I picture him just like that. Sorry, Chad, going to fastforward the Star-Spangled Banner. ------------ Who's out first then ... Kane vs. whoa what the fuck is this?! Hotline Miami! This is cool, instantly like this Wyatt chap. This might be the most ahead of the fasion curve a wrestler has ever been. So ring of fire, eh. Should be interesting. Kane looks like he's slimmed down. These flames are rating about a 9.0 on the JvK cheese-o-meter. I have no idea who is heel or face here. I'm guessing Kane, but it's hard to tell. Wyatt seems happy to "mug" to for the crowd. This is quite a lackluster match. Kane is definitely the face though, getting big pops now. Heels pile in now. What is all this? Couldn't it have happened on TV? Shades of Giant Gonzalez here with the aspestos blanket. This was rubbish. The fire didn't come into play either. Cool gimmick and music though. 25% Hotline Miami, 25% Texas Chainsaw, 25% Deliverance, 25% Studd's Stable E Post-match was strange. Shit come now, 24 minutes already. ----------- Shawn Michaels has a beard! A lot of people in WWE right now have beards. Paul Heyman now. OKish promo. Who's this? Damien Sandow. I've ALWAYS wanted someone to update Bockwinkel and do an "intellectual saviour" gimmick. This would be my gimmick. ANOTHER Beard. Beard count so far ... 5 (Wyatts, Bryan on clip, Michaels, this dude) I thought Sandow's promo was decent. ------- Damien Sandow vs. Cody Rhodes I hear on the grapevine this Money in the Bank thing is a big deal these days. This has started out all-action. Sandow's punches aren't the best. Nice snap suplex. Nice Russian legsweep. LOL "THE ELBOW OF DISDAIN" ha ha ha ha ha This has been good. Can't help but feel that things seem like they lack impact a bit though. This is "pretty" wrestling. Rhodes gets a lot of height on his dropkick. No charisma though. What? Man, I wanted Sandow to win this. I don't get it either, send this guy OVER surely. C+ ------------- Michael Cole has done a good job of making himself the modern Tony Schiavone. Christian hype package now. Who said he has a weird face? He looks alright man. I know I said I'd try to ignore it, but I do wish WWE could move past the sort of music Christian is using here. So non-descript. It's like a world imagined by Nickelback. Del Rio has the right sort of music. Says everything you need to know about him. Ariba! ----------- Christian vs. Del Rio Del Rio is a TWO time world champ already? lol This is basically the IC title now right? Watching these matches so far it's interesting to see how the body shape for WWE has changed, everyone is slimmed down and kinda small. No real monster physiques. Finding it hard to get into this one. Wondering what those Jacked Doritos taste like. Really really tremendous finish though. B- Think Del Rio's gimmick / push is quite interesting. ------- Divas match Little confused that heel diva is in the same black and white gear as one of her juniors and another one of her juniors is wearing red gear, Guessing she's part of a tag team? Who am I kidding, I just don't care. Fast forwarding this. I'm not commenting on or rating Divas matches. Gotta draw the line somewhere. -------- Dark segment with Ryback there. Another hype segment for Punk vs. Brock now. That looks like a pretty good turn. Beard watch: just as everyone else is growing a beard, Punk gets rid of his. "The Best vs. The Beast" is about a 6.5 on the cheese-o-meter. Pretty good video package. Lesnar looks hard as fuck. I do like how Heyman is a proper old-school-style manager. He does look like a cartoon now though. Brock's legs look really skinny. "It's clobbertime" is up there with "Polish power" as a really shit catchphrase. ---------- CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar I'm expecting Punk to pinball like a motherfucka here, Flair vs. Vader effort. Sure enough, he comes out the gates and kills him. This is a pretty brutal beatdown. Jumps on the top of the announce table! Belly-to-back suplex out on the floor! Brock saying "this is your boy huh?" is a nice little touch. I like the occassional hope spots they are building in for Punk here. Vicious knee! This is one of the better heat segments I can remember seeing, if you can call it a "segment". Backbreaker! They build to the point where Lesnar falls to the mat for the first time really well. Big roundhouse by Punk! Randy Savage elbow! NO. Shit. Claw on by Brock. Great counter. POWERBOMB. Hold is still on. FUCK POWERBOMB!! That was awesome. Suplex. Suplex. Suplex. There's no way Punk can beat Lesnar here. He's a machine. Gets a chair now. Punk off the top. This chair should be an equalizer now. Punk slams a chair off the top. 2-count. Big chairshot. Heyman on the apron. Punk has Heyman's tie. ("He's got his tongue!") Punk goes after Heyman after he breaks the count. Brock gets Punk up, counter into DDT. The vice now. No way does Brock tap, no way. Heyman again. He had it coming! Brock with the chairshot now. Has he broken Punk's arm? And again. And again. F5 on the chair. That's it. Pretty great stuff. The Heyman interference is all part of the story being told, so made sense. Built great. Had me marking properly Misses out on the very top rating because I'm not sure Brock was ever quite vulnerable enough to believe that Punk could ever actually get the win, but this is a nitpick. A I need a time out after that. Last hour coming soon ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 My beard is even longer than Bryan's. By a large margin actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 "It's clobbertime" is up there with "Polish power" as a really shit catchphrase. "IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!!!" It's what The Thing from Fantastic 4 says before he goes into battle. It's a shout out to the comic book fans. And it's over as fuck. Your review so far is.........interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Didn't Joe used to do it on the Indies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Love Parvs modern reviews because even though he has no modern product knowledge he generally more or less comes out with the same conclusion as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Michael Cole has done a good job of making himself the modern Tony Schiavone. Genuinely curious if this is meant as a good or bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Ha ha, I knew you had a beard, Dylan, I could sense it. Polish Power was over too. Everyone's a nerd and a hardcore comicbook fan these days aren't they. Interesting how that's happened. I'm a DC guy through and through so the reference is lost on me, I think I saw Fantastic Four when the film came out though (one of them is a fire guy?). I still think it's a shitty catchphrase. I also make no bones about being completely out of touch with the modern product, last show I watched was WM, show before that? WM last year, and I felt it was two shows too many. That Punk vs. Brock could get me into a match through all the animosity and blind hatred I have for the way wrestling his presented by WWE now is pretty remarkable. And Death - it's a good thing. Schiavone was the solid company guy who did a solid job. ----- Big E Langston vs. Dolph Ziggler Oh, hold on, the women are part of this. This is being worked under Wrestlemania VI rules. Langston's partner is making some interesting faces. I applaud the booking of this match here. It's a trough after a peak. That was one of my big problems with WM. 10 elbow drops from Ziggler! Interesting backbreaker from Langston. This was perfectly acceptable for the job it was doing on the card. Shame about Ziggler's music. D ------- What are the bits with The Miz meant to be doing here? They established him as "the host", but we also get thrown to Matthews with HBK, Booker and Vicki G. Beard SIX spotted: Triple H. Video package now. This stuff with Vince looks like it was very entertaining. Brad Maddox looks like the love child of Cary Elwes and Eric Bischoff. "The Beard is here!" ha ha "I don't want to be a parody" - great line. This looks like an interesting angle -- interesting enough to make me wonder if I'm missing something. Bryan seems extremely over here. ---------- Bryan vs. Cena Interesting, Cena has a word with the doctor early doors. The "you still suck" chants feel quite harsh. Cena looks disappointed in them. Every kick from Bryan is being cheered massively. Much less invested in this match so far than I was in Punk vs. Brock. Two reasons: 1. I think I'm lacking some of the context. I just don't understand the crowd dynamics to be honest. 2. We're back to this finish. two count. counter. reversal. rinse. repeat. trope already. I don't like that trope for all the reasons I've mentioned in the past. Maybe I spoke too early ... Interesting superplex here as Bryan hangs on to the turnbuckle so takes no impact on his back. That's innovative. WOW, massive move from the top by Cena, that's a legdrop from the top. Huge move. That should have been it right there. Ouch, kinda of a reverse tombstone from the top on Bryan's head into the STF. Nasty. Reversed ... Big clothesline by Cena. Great clothesline. Got to give it to this crowd, they've been hot all night. Seems like they aren't bothering to give Cena grief anymore at this point. Slugfest now. Hot sequence. Wow!! Holy shit. 3-count. Bryan was crazy, crazy over during this match. Big moment, but this wasn't really my scene this match. Some great sequences, but didn't build towards the big moment, seemed to hit the big false finishes early and then, despite that, sort of recovered. The 3-count was pretty surprising, seemed like a "flash finish". I suspect people have gone big on this match or at any rate much bigger than I have. Reckon this might have gained a grade if I'd had more emotional investment. B+ Hmmmm, I did think it was odd that Orton wasn't on the card. Oh ... OHHH ... Well there we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 A solid B+? Maybe Stephanie was right after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Didn't even think about that but Parv stepping right into that unintentionally was brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I finally watched the two main events (skipped the rest of the show as I had little interest in it at this point) and I think those two matches alone are worth the purchase of the dvd. With my work schedule I've managed to miss the show and RAW. I also stayed off the net so I went into the show spoiler free. Punk/Lesnar was so good. I don't have a ton of thoughts on it but I loved it as a straight up fight with some wrestling involved. Cena/Bryan is really what I was interested in. I'm a fairly big Cena supporter and have been for a long time (my AIM screenname in high school was Thuganomics87 even) and Bryan is the first guy who I really got interested in when I started branching out into watching indies so to say I was anticipating this is an understatement. Watching it I had so many thoughts but I've waited too long between to remember them all. During the entrances I had genuine chills. The support for Bryan is amazing and is something I never thought I'd see. For everyone wanting Cena to go heel I'd say the first quarter of the match is the closest we're going to get. A lot of his tactics and facial expressions were very heelish. One of the big turning points was (I think) the second two-count after an AA where the camera zoomed in on Cena's look of disbelief. I don't know if there is anyone in recent years that is so good at making these big matches feel like big deals. That superplex spot Bryan did was awesome as was the earlier superplex off the ring steps. Bryan pinning Cena cleanly was so great and a big markout moment for me. That celebration was moving but once it started to go on longer and I noticed HHH was still in the ring I got worried. At this point though I want to see where it goes. I'm sure this won't be the last time Bryan holds the title. He's so over with the live crowds that it would be silly not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Thinking back on this show, the way that Bryan was over with that crowd was surreal. I imagine Mid-South crowds going wild for JYD fans like that. He was almost 83-4 Hogan over. The way he worked the match when he was on top also mental thinking about it. Might be the strangest match I've seen in some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Curious what you mean by strangest, Jerry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well a lot of things were strange with the match. You've got the crowd dynamics with Cena, but Cena's response to them is very difficult to guage. What is exactly is being conveyed there? It seems to have shifted even since WM. Then you've Bryan being cheered more wildly that I can recall a crowd cheering since god's knows when, made slightly more surreal by ... well, it's IWC-poster-boy Bryan, it's WWE, it's Summerslam, and the roof is coming off. And then he works the match in this insanely fired up, crazy almost superhero way at times that is closer to 83-4 Hogan than to any babyfaces in recent memory. Then Cena is beaten clean out of nowhere in a flash finish. I guess "strange" in the sense of "wake me up, did this actually happen". And then you get the post-match with Orton coming out and putting a dampener on the whole thing, which strikes a discordant note. Maybe it's just me, but the whole thing feels like a odd dream I had from eating too much cheese before bed or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Then you've Bryan being cheered more wildly that I can recall a crowd cheering since god's knows when, made slightly more surreal by ... well, it's IWC-poster-boy Bryan Bryan transcended being "the IWC poster-boy" quite a while ago. If you actually followed the product you wouldn't find the reaction he got strange at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I think that the reaction in and of itself is notable, regardless of following the product or not. Who was the last guy that over with a crowd in your estimation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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