Elimination Chamber

[Loss]

Christian coming in and just destroying the shoulder was pretty glorious. Is it too much to ask that Christian ends up with Zeb somehow?

 

The Real North Americans?

[tim]

Wow, I'll need to rewatch this one, that is some crazy praise. For my part I did like it a whole lot and thought it is either my #3 or 4 MOTY so far. One of the more well done multi-man every man for himself matches I've ever seen and there were a ton of cool things in it.

[Russellmania]

No, and please don't insult me. Tell me why I'm wrong if you think I am, but don't troll like that.

It's not even the best match this year.

[Loss]

Then what is? There is still some stuff I need to catch up on, so I'll make it a point to check it out when I'm done taking drugs.

[Lee Casebolt]

I liked EC a lot, but I'm not even convinced it was the best match on this card.

[hammerva]

Yeah this was a great match. if there wasn't a Shield vs Wyatts match this would easily be in talks for the match of the year. If you think this was better than the 6 man that I don't know what to say. I know you have issues with it not being violent enough but you can't treat this like a Crockett or Mid South promotion.

 

The finish was exactly what I expected so while it sucks it is what it is. Now the only concern is whether they are going with Bryan vs Kane at WM or is Bryan beating Kane to get to Triple H which god I hope that is the case.

[Russellmania]

lol don't act like i'm the asshole when you're the one making ludicrous claims. if you're going to call this a top 2 or 3 match in the history of WWE/F then the onus is kind of on you to back that argument up, not on me to explain why I find that ridiculous.

[NintendoLogic]

I would never impugn Loss' good name by accusing him of partaking of the wacky tobacky, but I do agree that his praise for the Chamber match was quite hyperbolic. It really takes me out of a match when it has that many blatantly choreographed set pieces. It was like a high-end Rumble match in that I found it highly entertaining but have no real desire to ever watch it again.

[Dylan Waco]

I really enjoyed the Chamber, but it wasn't even my favorite match on the show, nor was it my favorite Chamber match of all time. I have to say I was kind of surprised to see that Loss even like the match, let alone that he rated it that highly.

[efrim]

Really struggle to see how anybody could see that as a top 2/3 match in wwe/f history. At best its the third best match this week behind Shield/Wyatts and Cena/Cesaro

[Exposer]

My thoughts on the show:

 

Rhodes Brothers vs. Ryback & Curtis Axl - Fun match. All four guys looked good. The Rhodes Brothers double dive was the highlight. I'm glad they won too. They needed it.

 

Big E. vs. Jack Swagger (IC Title) - Solid match. I like how they traded big man offense. Swagger doing his best Kurt Angle impression with the top rope throw and ankle lock was a bit cringe worthy but neither of those things were bad. It just reminded me of Angle. Fun match though.

 

New Age Outlaws vs. Usos (Tag Title) - Decent match. The Usos looked good. I liked the Uso in-peril (JImmy maybe?). He took some big bumps for the Outlaws shitty offense. Uso matches always have fun finishing runs. I loved the near fall off of the superkick because that's how Gunn lost on Smackdown. The finish was annoying because the Outlaws won.

 

The Shield vs. The Wyatts - This is my current match of the year. A completely awesome war. The traditional tag setting was fine because they were beating the fuck out of each other. Harper was incredible in this. I thought he was insanely great as the enforcer of the Wyatts. He had some awesome exchanges with all three Shield guys. Rollins was a lunatic. His land off the top rope German and offensive flurry was totally awesome. I loved Ambrose as the pitbull throwing violent strikes and making tremendous saves. That save he made for Rollins by the announce table was a great, great spot. Rollins table bump was really nasty. Reigns was excellent in this. This is the best he's ever looked. He uses a lot of the same moves but they all look great and his charisma is through the roof. Of course, the finish was superb and the Shield having the tables turned on them and Reigns desperately trying to survive was the best ending that this group could possibly have. Awesome, awesome match.

 

AJ vs. Cameron (Diva's Title) - The pom pom stuff was amusing. We'll probably get AJ-Tamina at some point soon. The match was bad.

 

Batista vs. Alberto Del Rio - The "Bootista" chant was great. Dave wasn't awful in this. He looked better here than he did in the Rumble. Del Rio did some decent work on the shoulder. The boos for the Batista Bomb were hilarious. The crowd now hates Batista.

 

EC Chamber (WWE Title) - This is a tough match to rate. I thought it was great but some of the cutesy spots were too ridiculous. Cesaro was the best guy in the match and it's not even close. He had so many impressive power spots and nasty exchanges I can't remember all of them. The powerbomb to Christian into the pod might be the standout. Sheamus and Christian were both great in this and probably the number two and three guys overall. I loved Christian's aggression early on and him taking stupid bumps. The frog splash was great. Sheamus brogue kicking the pod to get Orton was the spot of the match. His exchanges with Cesaro were incredible. Bryan was great at times and annoying as hell at other points. His no selling became evident towards the end. Cena was good and I loved how he countered the gutwrench into his frankensteiner. Cesaro submitting was fucking terrible. That guy shouldn't be giving up. It really bothered me. The last two eliminations were really predictable. Bray-Cena could be good at Mania. Bryan kicking out of the first RKO was a great near fall. His small package near fall was good too but after that it the fun went away. Great match but with some serious booking flaws. Shield-Wyatts crushed it.

[Loss]

I'm asking you what better matches have happened this year and you refuse to answer. But I am happy to elaborate. I mentioned the pacing before. There seriously wasn't a dull moment in the match. I realize that each guy got his own individual down time throughout the match, but the way they structured the match meant the overall effect was a pretty frenetic pace. And not just frenetic pace for the sake of frenetic pacing -- I really felt like there was a logical progression from moment to moment.

 

The great thing about War Games in the 80s was that it was a series of heel beatdowns followed by babyface saves over and over. Call that the standard NWA emotional climax, since those moments always tended to be pretty heated when they happened outside of War Games. This felt like the modern equivalent, just a nonstop barrage of back-to-back standard emotional climaxes in big WWE matches where the tide turns and they start going to the finishing stretch. The match felt like a gigantic WWE main event finishing stretch from start to finish.

 

Add in that I was impressed at how Cena and Cesaro managed to work such excellent sequences without repeating anything from their RAW match. Add in that I loved the Orton/Sheamus brogue kick thing, because Orton thought he had outsmarted everyone. He had, but he also outsmarted himself. Add in the awesome stuff with Daniel Bryan and the selling of his injured shoulder. Add in the way they positioned Cesaro as ready to hang with the top guys. Add in that Christian was really the perfect utility player for a match like this because he can bring the action and he doesn't need to be protected. Add in the sense of history in the final four moment where they nodded to the Cena/Cesaro, Bryan/Orton and Cena/Bryan rivalries with just a few simple overtures. So yes, I would rank it that high.

 

And yes, whether you really are an asshole or not, that post resembled someone incapable of civil discourse when they see something they don't agree with.

[Matt D]

I think it's great to see Charles' excitement in watching stuff in real time while following the weekly product which is something he's just getting back into. I do think that the WWE has been as good as it is now or close to it for much of the last few years, certainly since 2011 and maybe a year or two earlier. Probably not exactly on a weekly level since the 3 hour Raws have allowed for a lot more good matches, but if you factor the C shows maybe. That might be where some of the disconnect is coming.

[Steenalized]

I'd put the Chamber match as the second best on the show and the third best in the past week. It was very good, but the ending killed it. Not just Orton winning again, but the complete overbooking. Guys interfering in cage(-type) matches is also a big peeve of mine.

 

Edit: I should add, having the third best match in a week is not a slight since the other two are neck-and-neck for my MOTY.

[Loss]

I'm actually surprised that it's viewed as a disconnect. I've spent most of my viewing time trekking through the 1990s the last few years, looking at all promotions globally during that time. And multi-person matches worked like that were all the rage in the 1990s (and 1980s) when they were worked in New Japan or JWP. This match reminded me in some ways of those -- not necessarily as high end, but wrestled in the same spirit where the mindset is just to nod to history, keep the action going and provide a long series of emotional payoffs back to back. Those types of matches used to be the types that people looked to fondly and in a special way, so I'm not sure how this is any different.

 

Yes, I have viewing gaps the last few years, but I'm interested in how what we consider special and something that stands out from the pack has changed. This exact same match happening on a WWF show in 1994 would be iconic and something we still discuss fondly 20 years later.

[KrisZ]

I think the Chamber match ranks up there with the top of the Chamber matches...really strong stuff there.

[tim]

Watched Shield/Wyatts. American pro wrestling at its absolute best. A real classic.

[Matt D]

It's just that the pack has changed a lot over the last few years, I think. I'd put the cut off point at 2011 with the Punk vs Cena and the Christian/Orton feud and then Henry/Show/Bryan fueding towards the end of the year, which rolled into 2012 with things like Brock vs Cena and the Sheamus/Bryan 2/3 falls match and Cena/Punk rematches and a brief Bryan/Punk feud and Mark Henry off and on doing great things, which then rolled into 2013 with the Shield and a thousand six mans and Henry vs Cena and the rise of Cesaro first in the mid card having miracle matches with Kofi and Miz and then the Rhodes bros teaming and etc. etc.

 

I've been watching 1994. I like it well enough, but we're not there anymore. We're spoiled beyond belief and I'm glad you've made it to the party.

[Loss]

If the point is that when I catch up on all things WWE from 2011-2013, there is no way I'll see this match at the level I currently do, then I can accept that. We'll see if that's the case when I do catch up. But if that's the case, it makes me wonder if WWE so far this decade has had the best in-ring run of any promotion in history except for 90s All Japan. Is that a ridiculous case to make? I don't see anyone making that case, though.

 

If this is a fairly common standard for high-end matches, that's a very, very high standard to maintain. My hats off to WWE if they're able to do it more often than not. It's exciting that great matches are that plentiful in the modern scene. About a decade ago when I started fading out of following everything week-to-week, that wasn't the case at all. And while Dylan praised 2010-2011 WWE immensely at the time, it didn't seem like there was a larger movement. So if that's indeed true, I'm puzzled because it seems like something everyone would be excited about.

[rvd356]

Hey guys it's Loss' opinion. If he think The Elimination Chamber 2014 is the #3 match in WWE history then good for him. Differing opinions are cool and that's what makes this board rule. Just like I think that (mexico based) Lucha sucks, that Jerry Lawler and Buddy Rose are vastly overrated workers here, that Dynamite Kid is one of the best pound for pound workers of all time and that TNA has had some of the Top 10 best matches in the past 25 years. I think he may be caught up in the excitement of the night of course(since the 6 man was ****3/4, EC would be *****). It's hard for me to fathom it being better than Cena-Punk MITB, Cena-Brock, Brock-Punk, Savage-Steamboat, Bret-Hennig KOTR, Austin-Rock WM17, Taker-Shawn HIAC & WM 25, Brock-Eddy or any of my top 20 WWE matches of all time BUT any given show can create the GOAT match.

 

Anyway I value his opinion and am super pumped to check out these two top matches. And Batista-Orton be damned, I'm excited for Mania. Crazy that Batista is only 3 years younger than Hogan was in 2002 when he became champion.

[Loss]

It sounds like it probably won't hit that level for you, based on what others have said. I appreciate that you respect my opinion and I definitely wasn't intending to be hyperbolic. But man ... Mid South Wrestling and JCP are considered the golden age standard bearer promotions for hardcore fans. And neither of them had matches at the level of the top two matches on this show regularly. I mean, I have seen about a half-dozen matches this year in WWE that have knocked my socks off, and there is still some highly regarded stuff I missed and need to check out. So if we're in another golden age now, I suppose we should be a little happier about what we're watching, booking that ranges from decent to mind numbing at times be damned.

[tim]

But if that's the case, it makes me wonder if WWE so far this decade has had the best in-ring run of any promotion in history except for 90s All Japan. Is that a ridiculous case to make? I don't see anyone making that case, though.

I feel like the volume really fell off after 2009 and only picked back up in 2013. That said both those years had crazy volume for very good-great matches. But I made a top 10 WWE matches of 2012 list for a project on another forum and after #7 I was kind of scraping at matches that wouldn't make my top 25 WWE this year. In fact I did make a top 25 WWE of 2013 list and it was very, very easy (to find matches good enough to list that is), and I could have probably extended it to 40 and each match would still have been worth going out of your way to see if you were actively watching wrestling throughout the year.

[rvd356]

It just might. I do believe that we are spoiled by the volume of awesome Indy based talent(Cesaro, Rollins, Danielson, formerly Punk, Ambrose, soon to be Generico etc) mixed with Top Shelf homegrown talents(Brock, Cena and Ziggler) mix in some all time "Legends" at times like Taker, Big Show, Goldust, Rey Jr, Jericho and Mark Henry.

 

I'm rambling but for instance, watching the Rumble this year, I literally was a mark for like 24 or 25 of the guys in the match. It's just almost too many good matches that it's hard to really pick out the "Great Ones".

 

WWE is just missing the excitement factor of either the Hogan "golden age" or The Attitude/MN Wars era to really push them back into the mainstream.

[Exposer]

I think WWE has been great for five years now. 2009 was a really unique year. We had RAW, SD, ECW, and Superstars. SD, ECW, and Superstars were having very good to great matches every week. Not to mention there were often more than one match that was at that level from each show. Raw was drowning in the "Special Guest" era in the second half of the year but I recall the first half being strong in-ring. 2010 was much of the same story. 2011 Raw improved but Superstars was slowly diminished. NXT was just started to bring out good matches. SD was still at a really high level. 2012 was probably the weakest year because SD suffered in the second half from the death of the brand split and it lost it's identity for awhile. Raw got great once the three hour format started getting a groove. Superstars was dead but NXT was improving by the weak. Last year, all three "major" shows Raw, SD, and NXT were excellent. Not to mention Main Event being great TV and Superstars still providing a few very strong matches. With the network launch, this year could be even better. I would probably rank the last five years like this: 2009, 2013, 2011, 2010, 2012. They're all very close though and each have a variety of great in-ring work.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I think an underrated part of the reason why even people who were lukewarm on the WWE in the past has basically said in the past year or so that the in-ring work is awesome is two reasons.

 

1.) A lot more of the awesome wrestling is on RAW after the shift to three hours. Even hardcore wrestling fans tend to forget Smackdown exists, so despite all the awesome stuff that happened there, it kind of got lost in the mists.

 

2.) People that hardcore fans are already predisposed to liking are having these awesome matches. Convincing somebody that Chris Master or Mark Henry are having great matches is a little harder than convincing them Tyler Black and Claudio and Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson are having great matches.

 

For example, on the WWE 2013 recap Alan4L did, he said during '10, '11, and '12, he had about 10-15 4*+ matches each year. In 2013, I think he said he had 40.