Elimination Chamber

[Loss]

It sounds like it probably won't hit that level for you, based on what others have said. I appreciate that you respect my opinion and I definitely wasn't intending to be hyperbolic. But man ... Mid South Wrestling and JCP are considered the golden age standard bearer promotions for hardcore fans. And neither of them had matches at the level of the top two matches on this show regularly. I mean, I have seen about a half-dozen matches this year in WWE that have knocked my socks off, and there is still some highly regarded stuff I missed and need to check out. So if we're in another golden age now, I suppose we should be a little happier about what we're watching, booking that ranges from decent to mind numbing at times be damned.

[tim]

But if that's the case, it makes me wonder if WWE so far this decade has had the best in-ring run of any promotion in history except for 90s All Japan. Is that a ridiculous case to make? I don't see anyone making that case, though.

I feel like the volume really fell off after 2009 and only picked back up in 2013. That said both those years had crazy volume for very good-great matches. But I made a top 10 WWE matches of 2012 list for a project on another forum and after #7 I was kind of scraping at matches that wouldn't make my top 25 WWE this year. In fact I did make a top 25 WWE of 2013 list and it was very, very easy (to find matches good enough to list that is), and I could have probably extended it to 40 and each match would still have been worth going out of your way to see if you were actively watching wrestling throughout the year.

[rvd356]

It just might. I do believe that we are spoiled by the volume of awesome Indy based talent(Cesaro, Rollins, Danielson, formerly Punk, Ambrose, soon to be Generico etc) mixed with Top Shelf homegrown talents(Brock, Cena and Ziggler) mix in some all time "Legends" at times like Taker, Big Show, Goldust, Rey Jr, Jericho and Mark Henry.

 

I'm rambling but for instance, watching the Rumble this year, I literally was a mark for like 24 or 25 of the guys in the match. It's just almost too many good matches that it's hard to really pick out the "Great Ones".

 

WWE is just missing the excitement factor of either the Hogan "golden age" or The Attitude/MN Wars era to really push them back into the mainstream.

[Exposer]

I think WWE has been great for five years now. 2009 was a really unique year. We had RAW, SD, ECW, and Superstars. SD, ECW, and Superstars were having very good to great matches every week. Not to mention there were often more than one match that was at that level from each show. Raw was drowning in the "Special Guest" era in the second half of the year but I recall the first half being strong in-ring. 2010 was much of the same story. 2011 Raw improved but Superstars was slowly diminished. NXT was just started to bring out good matches. SD was still at a really high level. 2012 was probably the weakest year because SD suffered in the second half from the death of the brand split and it lost it's identity for awhile. Raw got great once the three hour format started getting a groove. Superstars was dead but NXT was improving by the weak. Last year, all three "major" shows Raw, SD, and NXT were excellent. Not to mention Main Event being great TV and Superstars still providing a few very strong matches. With the network launch, this year could be even better. I would probably rank the last five years like this: 2009, 2013, 2011, 2010, 2012. They're all very close though and each have a variety of great in-ring work.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I think an underrated part of the reason why even people who were lukewarm on the WWE in the past has basically said in the past year or so that the in-ring work is awesome is two reasons.

 

1.) A lot more of the awesome wrestling is on RAW after the shift to three hours. Even hardcore wrestling fans tend to forget Smackdown exists, so despite all the awesome stuff that happened there, it kind of got lost in the mists.

 

2.) People that hardcore fans are already predisposed to liking are having these awesome matches. Convincing somebody that Chris Master or Mark Henry are having great matches is a little harder than convincing them Tyler Black and Claudio and Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson are having great matches.

 

For example, on the WWE 2013 recap Alan4L did, he said during '10, '11, and '12, he had about 10-15 4*+ matches each year. In 2013, I think he said he had 40.

[rvd356]

I am kind of bummed that Danielson isn't sneaking into the WWE heavyweight title match somehow. I think he really needs to fight Triple H in a singles match, which really could be a classic in itself(haters be damned, whoever made that thread where they claim Virgil or Brian Adams or Paul Roma is better than Trips because they had a few watchable sprints on WCW Saturday Night that 4 people saw.)

 

If Bryan beats him, he gets into the Title match, if he loses no more Title shots or something like that. That way the Main Event, 1st Undisputed Title match in 12 years doesn't get boo'd out of the building and the fans get what WE want. Yes

[Dylan Waco]

I want to note that one of the reasons the Wyatts and The Shield was so great was precisely because it included those "nods" Loss talked about. The tease of the Rollins going through the table with the triple power bomb? A nod to The Shields M.O. Ambrose getting taken away from the action and Rollins getting taken out? A nod back to the way The Shield won their very first match in the promotion. Reigns being left to face the "numbers game?" An obvious nod as well. I didn't get that vibe at all from the Chamber, though I did enjoy the hell out of it. To be honest I saw the Chamber as a pretty meat and potatoes match, with guys filling time by beating the shit out of each other in fun, violent and interesting ways, until the inevitable overbooked finish. That sounds a lot more negative than I mean it to be, because I did enjoy the match a great deal, but I agree that it's only the third best match of the week, and I'm fairly certain their are more than a hundred WWE matches in history I think are better.

[Lee Casebolt]

If the point is that when I catch up on all things WWE from 2011-2013, there is no way I'll see this match at the level I currently do, then I can accept that. We'll see if that's the case when I do catch up. But if that's the case, it makes me wonder if WWE so far this decade has had the best in-ring run of any promotion in history except for 90s All Japan. Is that a ridiculous case to make? I don't see anyone making that case, though.

 

 

I wouldn't know where to start making that case, but I think it's safe to say the last four years or so is easily the best in-ring run in the company's history. It's simple math. They have too many good workers working too many shows - they're going to kick out some top shelf matches just by accident trying to fill all that time. The current period, I think, is the high point, but it's been a pretty steady build over the last few years. If you haven't caught up, you're in for a treat when you do.

[goodhelmet]

Loss, I enjoyed the match as much as you did. I thought everyone worked great within the confines of the Chamber and their position in the match. Sheamus and Cesaro anchored the early section by being cautious about hitting any big moves that may lay them out with an easy pin by a fresher guy but they also beat the shit out of each other. DB came in and as the fresher guy, cleaned house but also had that bum wing that kept him from really capitalizing on either guy. Christian came in as the guy who hadn't beat anybody with something to prove and performed like he belonged in there with the others. Cena came in and as the alpha male, destroyed those how needed to be destroyed but didn't overpower anyone and Orton played his role to perfection as the ultimate heel. I can't recall a WWE crowd ever chanting and calling a guy a pussy before. That was nuts. Add the big spots, the logical progression of how the big spots were executed and you have the makings of an awesome match. The only disappointment I feel is in the booking. It made sense from what they wanted to do but not what the crowd wanted.

[Jmare007]

My only complaint about the Chamber match was crowd reaction, the only moment I really felt tension and drama was when Bryan kicked out of the RKO and the fans thought that maybe he could pull it off. All six guys worked their asses off and I agree with Loss and Will about the pacing and roles each guy played to perfection, but at that point of the show I needed more crowd involvement for the match to really connect with me.

[Strummer]

Wade Keller is reporting that Batista injured his left arm on the show last night. Everything this company has been trying to do lately seemingly has been blowing up in their faces

[topropepodcast]

My only complaint about the Chamber match was crowd reaction, the only moment I really felt tension and drama was when Bryan kicked out of the RKO and the fans thought that maybe he could pull it off. All six guys worked their asses off and I agree with Loss and Will about the pacing and roles each guy played to perfection, but at that point of the show I needed more crowd involvement for the match to really connect with me.

 

As someone there, honestly, the reaction in the Batista match was so negative, I felt the crowd was a little burned out early on. There were some scattered chants and things, but nothing that really took over the crowd. That, and the fact that the crowd was kind of split on some of the people involved, for example, I heard a couple of people behind me, when it was just Sheamus and Cesaro ask "Who do I root for here? I like them both." I think it just honestly kind of took until the "Pussy" chant for everyone to really get on any kind of page.

[Loss]

Well, when the show is available on the Network (which I think can't happen for a few weeks if I remember right), I want to watch both matches again and if I was crazy tonight, I'm happy to say so. I do think the conversation comparing the best matches in WWE to the best matches in other highly regarded time periods is an interesting one that is probably worth continuing. Right now, I'm thinking ****1/2 for the six-man and ****3/4 for the Chamber. There aren't any shows in 1989 NWA that I think have two matches at that level.

[Grimmas]

I thought the booking of the Chamber finish was fine, IF Bryan gets inserted into the title match at Mania, if not then it sucked.

[Fantastic]

I can't see John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt headlining Wrestlemania XXX - that would be ridiculous. I mean sure, it's John Cena, he's optimal for headlining, but against Bray Wyatt? Far too early. It's a milestone Wrestlemania and all participants in the main event should be big name players.

 

I would think that we're looking at:

 

- Batista vs. Randy Orton

- Batista vs. Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

- Batista vs. Daniel Bryan (if they capitalise on the crowd hatred and turn Batista, aligning him with Triple H)

- Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan (maybe a bit wishful)

[Loss]

I was actually going to throw that question to everyone -- do you think Bray has proved over the last two months that he belongs at that level?

[KrisZ]

Work wise maybe not but character wise very much so

[Loss]

I would like to see things eventually get to a point where they are able to show up without the sound effect. Feels like overkill.

[Fantastic]

I was actually going to throw that question to everyone -- do you think Bray has proved over the last two months that he belongs at that level?

 

No, it's far too soon and if he were to work the main event of Wrestlemania, we all know that there is no fucking way that Cena isn't going over. Bray still has the potential to bomb in the coming months, so he needs a high profile win to keep climbing. Just not that high profile, however beating Cena in upper portion of the XXX card, would be more than acceptable. The last time a rising star beat Cena in the main event of Wrestlemania, his career rapidly spiralled downward (The Miz).

[Loss]

I could actually see Bray going over simply because they are short on heels after Wrestlemania. I would hope they aren't going to keep running with Orton in that top heel spot. They might, but I for some reason don't think they will. I guess Batista's turn is the trump card too.

[Fantastic]

I could actually see Bray going over simply because they are short on heels after Wrestlemania. I would hope they aren't going to keep running with Orton in that top heel spot. They might, but I for some reason don't think they will. I guess Batista's turn is the trump card too.

 

I think WWE is holding out for a Batista vs. Brock Lesnar match at some point this year. I was thinking the other night that following his loss to The Undertaker at Wrestlemania, that Lesnar might begin the path to a face turn. Assume that he and Taker simply shake hands in the post match or do something to tease it, they'd still not be doing enough to pull the trigger on a full face turn if they needed Brock to be face.

 

Why Brock as the face? Well Brock doesn't work that well as a heel unless he's physically dominating and beating the crap out of people. Batista's "thing" is that he's "the animal" and he's never played the face in a sympathy angle where the crowd is rooting for him, because he keeps getting destroyed or manhandled at every turn by the mightier Lesnar. It's never been that way for Batista, not even against Taker. On the other hand, Batista has been an exceptional heel, particularly just prior to leaving the WWE in 2010. He ticked all the boxes, the arrogance, and the cowardice when faced with challenges from John Cena, not to mention this promo.

[bradhindsight]

Will, Kris, Johnny, Scott and myself jumped on for a post-PPV Elimination Chamber Reaction podcast. Check it:

 

http://placetobenation.com/place-to-be-network-elimination-chamber-reaction/

[anarchistxx]

Just watched the show. The ending was a fucking joke again; how many times can WWE keep giving these screwy finishes to their fans? Indefinately I suppose now the network reduces their reliance on PPV revenue. It wasn't just that it was a screwy finish, it was just a plain bad finish. What is Kane doing anywhere near the title picture even in this capacity? There had to be a more creative way to end it than that.

 

Can anyone see a Wrestlemania X style scenario, where Daniel Bryan wrestles Kane in the first match and if he wins he gets added to the title match later? That would work. If all they do at WM is a singles match with Bryan and Kane they have wasted the biggest opportunity to crown a new superstar that they have had in years. He is ridiculously over but there is only so long you can be this hot, and if they fail to capitalize now they will lose it completely.

 

--

 

As for the rest of the show...

 

Firstly it was FANTASTIC to see the reception The Shield vs The Wyatts got. The crowd was so hyped, 'this is awesome' chants before it even started and they kept them involved all the way through. These six guys have been with the company for a year or less, and they managed to generate so much heat and excitement, it is a fun time to be a fan with all the new faces coming through and actually getting over, as oppose to feeling forced and shoved down our throats. The pushes have been far more old school if a bit accelerated e.g. tag run, part of a faction, get over and then do a singles run off the back of that. As oppose to the strategy in recent years of having them be invinvible for a while after debut, and then the crowd getting bored, the booking team running out of ideas and their next big star is suddenly jobbing every week. Felt like the match could have been more of a crazy brawl but it worked well, I was marking out big time when Reigns got out of the Bray Wyatt finish.

 

The undercard before that was alright. They have a ton of guys with potential like Darren Young and Titus, both could work well in an underdog face role and monster heel role respectively. New Age Outlaws have been fun this run. Swagger is a million times better with Dutch, really enjoyed the opener even if I think Big E is a bit underdevloped as a character, and they really don't want to turn him into a smiling, happy face. Speaking of horrible grins, Bad News Barrett is fucking awful, seems really forced and he is almost getting X-Pac heat now. I can't see him lasting out the year with all the talent on the roster now. The TNA title beckons for him.

 

Skipped the Del Rio match other than the finish. WWE must be worried about the Batista reactions, no way is he going on last if he wins the title, they won't end Wrestlemania with the crowd shitting all over him.

 

The Elimnation Chamber was fun until the finish, but it had me gripped because I was so desperate for Bryan to win. I will say it is impressive how much more creative matches are in the WWE these days Watch a PPV in 2007 and the in ring action was so predictable and lacklustre compared to now, you can tell they put a lot of effort into coming up with interesting spots and segments.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

I was actually going to throw that question to everyone -- do you think Bray has proved over the last two months that he belongs at that level?

 

He has grown on me, but no way should he be getting John Cena at Wrestlemania. Cena should be in a marquee match with another big name legend, not helping build a star; save that for Summerslam and the minor PPVs. If anything it would make more sense for Wyatt to work Undertaker, because at least that would have the supernatural angle to it or whatever.

 

Bray has grown on me a fair bit, but they could easily put him over in a big six man tag or a singles match against Sheamus - someone he can beat with credibility without being a major selling point of the card.

 

I'm sure they will put together a decent match, whether the crowd will be invested in it is another matter. I'd rather they had put Cena with Roman Reigns if they wanted to give someone the rub, the crowd would have gone crazy for it and Reigns has been built up a bit more, seems much more of a natural threat than Wyatt who often seems like he is playing a character.

 

 

 

Work wise maybe not but character wise very much so

 

What is his character exactly, except being a weird horror movie cliche? I don't see much character work from him, just mannerisms and facial expressions which to me seem a bit forced and cringe worthy.

[Fantastic]

The trouble with Batista is that there was seemingly very little to no demand for a return from him, compared to the other "special contract returnees" of Chris Jericho, Brock Lesnar and The Rock. People had been crying out for The Rock to return since he appeared at the 2008 HOF ceremony and planted the seeds for a program with John Cena. There has been interest in seeing Brock return to WWE from the moment his NFL flirtation ended. In fact, wasn't he in talks with WWE following that? Didn't things fall apart when it came to contract details, thus Brock went to NJPW and WWE filed a lawsuit because of this?

 

Batista's return itself was pretty anti-climatic. There were no surprises, WWE simply announced he was coming back and then pushed him to the moon with little or no hesitation. You can understand why there were ruminations of talent being pissed off - Batista agrees to come back on the proviso that they drop everything they have in place with full time talent and give him the Royal Rumble, the main event of Wrestlemania XXX and a title run, regardless of whether it's best for business or not.

 

Brock came back and put over Cena in his first match. Jericho came back and put over Punk, The Rock came back with the sole goal, albeit a long term one, of putting over John Cena at Wrestlemania.