PhilTLL Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, fxnj said: I'm digging the idea of giving Bret the win. That really seems the way to establish him as a big player in the company after his rocky start, similar to how WWE used the Undertaker's streak to re-establish Lesnar. Bret's "bullfighter outsmarts the bull" handling of Goldberg would have made it much more interesting than what we got, too. Of course in reality, Bret was already injured when he actually did his Goldberg angle, took extra time off after Owen died, and they had a completely different plan to put him on top by the time he got back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 20 hours ago, C.S. said: Nash ending the streak was ludicrous, especially in light of what came before (Goldberg beating Hogan) and what happened after (the "fingerpoke of Doom"). Nash had been Hogan's underling at one point and therefore always the lesser of the two, so it wasn't believable at all. He had also cooled down considerably, so he wasn't nearly over enough at that point in time to 1. main event Starrcade 2. end the streak. It never, ever felt warranted or earned. Yes, it was a dirty finish with multiple people interfering and Scott Hall doing his best goofy midcarder Mountie cosplay with that atrocious shock stick finish, but still. If they were attempting to "protect" Goldberg, it didn't work. No one came out looking better after all that nonsense. And then the "fingerpoke" was the final fuck you from WCW to the audience, while Schiavone buried Mick Foley on commentary (per Bischoff's orders) and sent their dwindling fanbase switching over to USA Network in record numbers. This is one point I always push back on - Nash was wildly over at the end of 1998. He had been hot all year, WCW totally blew it by not doing him vs. Hogan when the fans were losing their minds whenever they touched, and he was a big enough star for his spot. The mistake was (1) turning Nash in beating Goldberg was a mess, for the reasons you lay out, but moreso (2) the Fingerpoke reset the entire prior year in a totally illogical way. (The Fingerpoke is overrated in its effect on killing WCW but it fucking blew.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 As over as Nash was with the crowds - and as big as Wolfpac was - he was not close to being the draw that Goldberg was. He should not have ended the streak. As Heenan said, they should not even have been thinking about ending the streak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Migs said: (2) the Fingerpoke reset the entire prior year in a totally illogical way. (The Fingerpoke is overrated in its effect on killing WCW but it fucking blew.) It definitely infuriated the hardcore fans, and they were a much better leading indicator for the casual fans back then. (Such that the dichotomy exists anymore.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 It turned out to probably be a blessing in disguise as the PPV went off the air when they ran late or some shit but I thought DDP should have beat Goldberg with the Diamond Cutter at Halloween Havoc. It might have hurt DDP though, as mentioned earlier. Hard to know for sure. Kevin Nash didn't just end the streak of Goldberg & then do the Fingerpoke bullshit with Hogan but he also ended the Streak of Wrath and won World War 3 on the way. The whole thing was dreadful. That completely killed Wrath too when he was getting pretty over with his Meltdown finish. Having a good finish is a BIG deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 13 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: Yes, Bischoff has talked about that several times on his podcast. The plan was for Nitro to belong to the NWO and Thunder to belong to WCW. That makes very little sense. So the NWO just fights each other every Monday night? Seems to me the better idea would have just been to put the most over guys on Nitro and everyone else on Thunder, to make it a show where talent has the chance to get over instead of being trampled by the bigger names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, flyonthewall2983 said: That makes very little sense. So the NWO just fights each other every Monday night? Seems to me the better idea would have just been to put the most over guys on Nitro and everyone else on Thunder, to make it a show where talent has the chance to get over instead of being trampled by the bigger names. Bischoff has claimed that the reason the nWo started adding members like crazy (Michael Wallstreet, Ray Traylor, etc.) is because they were preparing to split off and "take over" Nitro. He also claims the main reason he signed Bret Hart was to be the #1 star on Thunder, and pretty much they were planning on doing what WWE ended up doing with Raw and Smackdown, having two separate brands which compete at PPV's several times a year. From what I understand, the idea got killed for two reasons. They kicked off the idea with the 12/22/97 episode of Nitro, when the nWo "took over" and spent most of the show destroying the sets and rebuilding them nWo style. The problem is, when the ratings came in apparently they were down 25% from the previous week, and Raw actually beat Nitro during the 10:00 pm hour. That supposedly made everybody nervous and caused them to rethink the idea. (Who would have guessed fans wouldn't want to watch a glorified home improvement project while the nWo cut endless promos?) Secondly, I guess TNT and TBS weren't crazy about the idea of certain talents being exclusive to the other channel, even though both channels were owned by Turner. If you believe the rumors, the original plans were for Bischoff to beat Zbyszko at Starrcade and for WCW to "lose" Nitro to the nWo, causing WCW to start their own show on Thursdays with Bret Hart as the #1 star, but once everybody saw the ratings, they pulled the plug on the whole idea. In my opinion, the nWo angle started to really go into the toilet way back then, when they stopped being an elite stable made up of former WWE stars and started adding guys who were...not quite as big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 16 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: Yes, Bischoff has talked about that several times on his podcast. The plan was for Nitro to belong to the NWO and Thunder to belong to WCW. That was for the 97 thing, but I think they planned something similar in 2000 (I suppose with a New Blood TV show, or maybe one show for Bischoff and one for Russo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 I think the 2000 thing was going to be Hogan and Jarrett as competing World champs based on Bash at the Beach fallout, with maybe separate shows for each champ, culminating in a big unification match, but it all blew up before ever really starting? Or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 It’s still amazing to me that Goldberg was only WCW World Heavyweight Champion once, and has had three Heavyweight Championship wins in WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: Secondly, I guess TNT and TBS weren't crazy about the idea of certain talents being exclusive to the other channel, even though both channels were owned by Turner. If you believe the rumors, the original plans were for Bischoff to beat Zbyszko at Starrcade and for WCW to "lose" Nitro to the nWo, causing WCW to start their own show on Thursdays with Bret Hart as the #1 star, but once everybody saw the ratings, they pulled the plug on the whole idea. In my opinion, the nWo angle started to really go into the toilet way back then, when they stopped being an elite stable made up of former WWE stars and started adding guys who were...not quite as big. That's just insanity if you think about it. They had more proven top guys than any wrestling company in history, spreading that star power out a bit would have helped both shows instead of featuring everyone, all the time. They were at critical mass at this point, signing Bret after what was a really hot year for him in the WWF, only to do what they ended up doing with him. This makes me wonder if Spike and CW questioned WWE when did their brand-split 4/5 years later. As far as the NWO job squad, I think it was effective for a little while, essentially having their own security force so faces wouldn't get at Hogan, Hall or Nash so easily. But, as you said, it did jump the shark at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 Watched The Broken Skull Sessions with Bayley last night... Nothing earth-shattering, but a couple of things stood out to me: - Austin is obviously a huge fan of Bayley's work and was far more familiar with her overall career than I was expecting. - Bayley seems like such a genuinely nice, cool, chill person. You can see why she was such an effective babyface (in NXT at least). It makes her current heel work all the more impressive, especially now that she has found her footing with that. - Bayley vs. Sasha Banks at Hell in a Cell 2020 seems like a thousand years ago already, but I forgot 1. it happened 2. it happened recently, and 3. what a fun match it was. (I'll have to dig up the thread to see what I thought of it then. I hope I was in the right mindset to appreciate it at the time.) - Bayley addressed winning and losing the Women's Tag Team Titles so quickly the first time around. She mentioned being very proud of the WrestleMania match (the one they lost), proud of Nattie and Beth's involvement, and said they watched it back after with The Iiconics. Nothing about getting on the floor, throwing a tantrum, or Ryan Satin. Speaking of which, I'm still not sure how that guy constantly falls upward - from a mid-tier "sheet" website (that I'm assuming had less visitors than Observer, Torch, PWInsider, or even stuff like Cageside Seats, Wrestling Inc., WrestleZone, etc., but probably more visitors than most of the generic "newz" sites) to actual work with WWE. Not begrudging his WWE gig, as that's "the dream" - but of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, WWE walked into his of all people?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 I don't know if anyone saw but they added a Best of Luke Harper to the network that has the guys talking about him before their matches. They have pretty much the matches you would expect them to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 1/11/2021 at 3:58 PM, C.S. said: Speaking of which, I'm still not sure how that guy constantly falls upward - from a mid-tier "sheet" website (that I'm assuming had less visitors than Observer, Torch, PWInsider, or even stuff like Cageside Seats, Wrestling Inc., WrestleZone, etc., but probably more visitors than most of the generic "newz" sites) to actual work with WWE. Not begrudging his WWE gig, as that's "the dream" - but of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, WWE walked into his of all people?! His dad is a TV producer, so that more than likely opened doors for him. Still, you'd think a guy who's resume includes working on racist-ass Sherriff Joe's show and working for TMZ when they released the Dusty Rhodes 911 call would have hit his ceiling sooner than later. WWE saw a guy who would pass along anything given to him as BREAKING NEWZ without question so suppose they felt he was a useful enough idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/wwe-network-peacock-exclusively-streaming-1234890954/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I cancelled my WWE Network subscription quite a while ago, and I can't see myself ever signing up again, but I am curious about something. The Peacock streaming service is not available in Canada, so I assume that the WWE Network will remain "as is" for customers outside the United States? Or does it mean that once the Network moves to Peacock, WWE will pull it for everybody else and people who can't get Peacock are out of luck? Either way, it doesn't seem fair. It's not fair for American fans if all the International fans get to keep the traditional version of the Network and they don't, or if the Peacock version of the Network doesn't get to keep the same amount of content as the International version. But it's not fair for the International customers lose their version of the Network and then they can't subscribe to Peacock. I assume International customers will end up getting screwed. It took forever for Canadians to get the full version of the WWE Network after it launched in the USA. We got a severely limited version with barely any content...just the live network feed, for the longest time. I think it's a safe bet once this deal goes through, the International fans will get the shaft again. Good thing I stopped paying for it and I don't care anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDuke Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 It's crazy the us version with ads according to that article will be 4.99 and include peacock stuff as well, and the Canadian version is like 14.99 Canadian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 57 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: I assume International customers will end up getting screwed. It took forever for Canadians to get the full version of the WWE Network after it launched in the USA. We got a severely limited version with barely any content...just the live network feed, for the longest time. I think it's a safe bet once this deal goes through, the International fans will get the shaft again. Good thing I stopped paying for it and I don't care anymore. I would be shocked if they would not almost stop any investment (maintenance) on their back- and frontend, i.e. sooner or later the apps will be completely broken. I.e. us international users will pay more to get a broken product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 This will probably get lost in all the Peacock posts, but I highly, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend the Pat Patterson documentary My Way on the Network. It's legitimately one of the best things they've ever done. No earth-shattering revelations if you've read the Bertrand Hebert book, but it's awesome to see old photographs and video footage of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Robert S said: I would be shocked if they would not almost stop any investment (maintenance) on their back- and frontend, i.e. sooner or later the apps will be completely broken. I.e. us international users will pay more to get a broken product. The more I read about this deal, including on more mainstream entertainment sites...the more it sounds like International fans are going to basically get screwed. It sounds like they're basically transferring the existing content from the WWE Network onto Peacock, and shuttering their own platform. This sounds like a great deal if you live in the USA, because you end up paying less money and end up getting more content, because you get all the other stuff that is available on Peacock. If you can't get Peacock? Oh well, you're basically screwed. If I was actually still a subscriber to the Network right now, I'd be pissed. I know Vince and Company won't care...they get their billion dollars and don't have to actually pay to run their own streaming service anymore, so they probably won't care that the International fans are upset...but it sounds like it's going to be a mess for everybody who doesn't live in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Curious to see how this plays out. It makes me more likely to subscribe and I haven't subbed in quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 14 hours ago, Zoo Enthusiast said: Curious to see how this plays out. It makes me more likely to subscribe and I haven't subbed in quite a while. The whole value proposition is different, in the sense that, if I want to watch the Saved by the Bell reboot, I have to subscribe to Peacock, and I guess I'd watch some WWE Network if I'm getting it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 17 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: The more I read about this deal, including on more mainstream entertainment sites...the more it sounds like International fans are going to basically get screwed. It sounds like they're basically transferring the existing content from the WWE Network onto Peacock, and shuttering their own platform. This sounds like a great deal if you live in the USA, because you end up paying less money and end up getting more content, because you get all the other stuff that is available on Peacock. If you can't get Peacock? Oh well, you're basically screwed. If I was actually still a subscriber to the Network right now, I'd be pissed. I know Vince and Company won't care...they get their billion dollars and don't have to actually pay to run their own streaming service anymore, so they probably won't care that the International fans are upset...but it sounds like it's going to be a mess for everybody who doesn't live in the USA. If they screw me, I'll probably say screw them and will use something that is synonymous to flood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Robert S said: If they screw me, I'll probably say screw them and will use something that is synonymous to flood. At American prices, you can currently get at least 4 TB of name-brand storage for 1 year of WWE Network. I'm just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 This Peacock deal is so weird to me. It almost feels like WWE is throwing in the towel and admitting the Network has bee a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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