WWE Network... It's Here

[Loss]

I love the idea that Countdown has its own political structure surrounding it, where turnout among younger voters is enough to swing some of the numbers in their favor.

[shoe]

I also caught the Legends of Wrestling episode about Jerry Lawler and JYD. Awesome stuff, as usual - especially from Michael Hayes (discussing the famous feud where he "blinded" Dog) and Dusty (admitting to being an egomaniac who stole from Dog's act). Mike Graham comes across as an over-eager little brother/sad puppy dog on these things. I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but I really don't know why they picked him to be on the panel. He seems almost too shy/intimidated to really chime in, and when he does, everyone else ends up talking over him anyway.

 

On that note, I read that crappy "Outside the Ring" book Hulk Hogan wrote and was surprised that he had nothing nice to say about Graham. In contrast, Graham always went out of his way to praise Hogan in public. It's kind of sad because I read that Graham approached TNA for work before he took his own life, and he was disheartened that they had no position for him. Apparently, his father told him he'd always have a place in wrestling because he was a member of the Graham family. I wonder if Hogan/Bischoff were in TNA by then? Really sad if Hogan screwed a distraught Graham out of a position in TNA, but that's all pure speculation on my part - I don't even know if the timeline matches up, or whether TNA bringing Graham in a backstage capacity would have even been a good idea (though it couldn't have been worse than some of the other clowns they've hired both behind-the-scenes and in front of the camera).

For all due respect to Graham his threatening of Benoit, Guerrero. Malenko, and Saturn was a key part of them being able to get out of their contract and jump to WWE without a no compete. So their might be other reasons to why they might not want to hire the guy.

[SteveJRogers]

 

It's not surprising when you figure how many people under 20 are probably voting.

 

I know since these countdowns are voted through WWE website but still I just have a hard time with him being second. Like over HHH who has been pushed down everyone's throat as a big bad guy over the years? DiBiase completely blows away this guy as a heel. He was so good in his role that he never had a face run in WWF.

 

 

Considering The Freebirds made the tag list, I'm surprised Flair didn't make this list, and he still had his heel shoes on for a little while during his second WWF/WWE run.

 

Obviously they filmed some of this with newer footage, but how long ago was the voting? I wonder if the time in between the actual vote and the airing including his leaving, and hence finagling the positioning is almost an olive branch of sorts?

[TravJ1979]

I put this here in honor of the network adding all the Clashes, but mods please move if it is out of place.

 

I've finished the first four (1988) Clash of the Champions (Thanks, WWE Network) and thought I'd post my ranking of the twenty matches so far.

 

Clash I - Sting v. Ric Flair -- This match made a career overnight that lasted fifteen additional years.

 

Clash I - Midnight Express v. Fantastics -- Great brawl with two of the greatest tag teams of all time.

 

Clash IV - Eddie Gilbert/Ron Simmons v. Fantastics -- A nearly thirty minute match that is packed full of greatness.

 

Clash III - Mike Rotunda v. Brad Armstrong -- Probably the best TV title match of the 1980's.

 

Clash III - Sting v. Barry Windham -- Another strong performance from Sting and Windham is in top form.

 

Clash IV - Ric Flair/Barry Windham v. Midnight Express -- Two Great singles wrestlers vs. Top tag team of all time. Couldn't go wrong.

 

Clash II - Sting/Dusty Rhodes v. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard --Arn and Tully are great and the fans love Sting/Rhodes team. Solid.

 

Clash II - Fantastics v. Sheepherders -- Solid Match.

 

Clash I - Lex Luger/Barry Windham v. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Decent tag with a super hot crowd who comes unglued for title change.

 

Clash II - Barry Windham v. Brad Armstrong -- Thirteen minutes felt like thirty, but with these two, didn't matter much.

 

Clash III - Ricky Morton v. Ivan Koloff -- Fun little chain match.

 

Clash II - Al Perez v. Nikita Koloff -- Surprisingly decent.

 

Clash III - Nikita Koloff/Steve Williams v. Sheepherders - Too long, but hot crowd made it watchable.

 

Clash II - Ron Garvin/Jim Garvin v. Mike Rotunda/Rick Steiner -- Match was secondary to the Sullivan/Precious angle.

 

Clash I - Road Warriors/Dusty Rhodes v. Powers of Pain/Ivan Koloff -- The most tame barbed wire match ever.

 

Clash IV - Steve Williams v. Italian Stallion -- A fifteen minute squash match.

 

Clash I - Jim Garvin v. Mike Rotunda -- Amateur match with no amateur moves besides one count.

 

Clash III - Dusty Rhodes v. Kevin Sullivan -- Short with bad brawling

 

Clash IV - Paul Jones v. Ivan Koloff -- Koloff has his left arm tied behind him. Awful as you can expect.

 

Clash IV - Dusty Rhodes v. Road Warrior Animal -- Never gets started, Rhodes DQ during brawl with chair.

[bradhindsight]

Their is a Houseshow listed 3/17/97. When did they stop airing these shows on the MSG network. I always thought 91 maybe 92 was when they stopped.

 

I can't believe the Network still has the dates all one day off.

 

WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 16, 1997 (8,513)

Shown on the MSG Network - featured Jim Ross & Jim Cornette on commentary; included Dok Hendrix conducting an in-ring interview with Bret Hart, who claimed WWF World Champion Psycho Sid had lucked out everytime they had faced each other, and that Bret would change the face of WrestleMania 13 by defeating Sid in a steel cage match to become a 5-time WWF World Champion; included Hendrix conducting an in-ring interview with Ken Shamrock, who stated he would be impartial at WrestleMania 13, would not be swayed by the words of Hart or Steve Austin, and that he would let them go until one man submitted or could not defend himself; featured Hendrix conducting an in-ring interview with Sid, who stated he would defeat Hart on Raw, and that he smelled fear on the Undertaker (the first event on the MSG Network in 5 years; the final MSG show on the MSG Network):

The Sultan (w/ the Iron Sheik & Bob Backlund) defeated Flash Funk via submission with the Camel Clutch at 7:42; Sultan's music accidently began playing right before the hold was applied

Blackjack Windham & Blackjack Bradshaw defeated Henry & Phinneas Godwinn at 8:13 when Windham pinned Henry with a double axe handle to the back of the head after switching places with Bradshaw

Crush (w/ Savio Vega, PG-13, Clarence Mason, and D-Lo Brown) pinned Aldo Montoya at 1:46 with the heart punch; after the match, the Nation attacked Montoya until Ahmed Johnson cleared the ring with a 2x4

Ahmed Johnson defeated Savio Vega (w/ Crush, PG-13, Clarence Mason, and D-Lo Brown) via disqualification at 8:56 when the Nation interfered as Johnson had Vega covered following the Pearl River Plunge; after the match, the Nation, joined by Faarooq, beat down Ahmed until officials broke it up

WWF Tag Team Champions Davey Boy Smith & Owen Hart defeated Phil LaFon & Doug Furnas at 13:33 when Smith pinned Furnas after Hart tripped up the challenger as he attempted to suplex Smith into the ring

Hunter Hearst Helmsley (w/ Chyna) defeated WWF IC Champion Rocky Maivia via disqualification at 14:45 when Goldust interfered as Helmsley had Maivia covered following the Pedigree; moments later, Goldust clotheslined Helmsley to the floor, with Marlena then running out and jumping on Chyna's back until referees broke it up

Faarooq (w/ PG-13, Savio Vega, Crush, Clarence Mason, & D-Lo Brown) pinned Goldust at 8:26 with a piledriver after Crush tripped Goldust, with Crush pushing Goldust's foot off the bottom rope during the count; Sunny was the guest ring announcer for the bout; moments after the opening bell, Faarooq stated he had been forced to wrestle dead men, colored boys, and white boys, but drew the line at wrestling a "fag" like Goldust

Vader (w/ Paul Bearer) defeated the Undertaker in a casket match at 7:26 when Mankind came out of the casket, applied the Mandible Claw on Taker, forced him into the casket, and Bearer closed the lid; after the bout, Vader & Bearer left ringside, with Taker then coming out of the casket, assaulting Mankind in the ring, and dropping him with a chokeslam and the tombstone; Taker then rolled Mankind into the casket, shut the lid, and went backstage, with referees pushing the casket alongside him

Dark match: WWF World Champion Psycho Sid defeated Bret Hart in a steel cage match at 9:56 by crawling through the cage door to the floor before Hart touched the floor by climbing over the top, moments after Hart hit a superplex to the champion

[Robert S]

 

 

It's not surprising when you figure how many people under 20 are probably voting.

 

I know since these countdowns are voted through WWE website but still I just have a hard time with him being second. Like over HHH who has been pushed down everyone's throat as a big bad guy over the years? DiBiase completely blows away this guy as a heel. He was so good in his role that he never had a face run in WWF.

 

 

Considering The Freebirds made the tag list, I'm surprised Flair didn't make this list, and he still had his heel shoes on for a little while during his second WWF/WWE run.

 

Obviously they filmed some of this with newer footage, but how long ago was the voting? I wonder if the time in between the actual vote and the airing including his leaving, and hence finagling the positioning is almost an olive branch of sorts?

 

Did they really have a voting? Some results indicate that these are just made-up lists.

[SteveJRogers]

IIRC there were polls over at the website.

[TravJ1979]

Will WWE eventually upload the ECW Arena shows that were released on commercial tape or are those owned by someone else? Shows like Double Tables, Big Ass Extreme Bash, etc.

[anotherspammer]

 

 

Their is a Houseshow listed 3/17/97. When did they stop airing these shows on the MSG network. I always thought 91 maybe 92 was when they stopped.

Faarooq (w/ PG-13, Savio Vega, Crush, Clarence Mason, & D-Lo Brown) pinned Goldust at 8:26 with a piledriver after Crush tripped Goldust, with Crush pushing Goldust's foot off the bottom rope during the count; Sunny was the guest ring announcer for the bout; moments after the opening bell, Faarooq stated he had been forced to wrestle dead men, colored boys, and white boys, but drew the line at wrestling a "fag" like Goldust

Farooq was the heel, right?

[goc]

I have to wonder how much attention WCW paid to their tape library when I watch Clash V and there is audio distortion and old VHS tracking marks.

[C.S.]

I have to wonder how much attention WCW paid to their tape library when I watch Clash V and there is audio distortion and old VHS tracking marks.

 

It was WCW. That should answer all your questions.

[flyonthewall2983]

I like stuff like that as long as it isn't too distracting.

[SteveJRogers]

I have to wonder how much attention WCW paid to their tape library when I watch Clash V and there is audio distortion and old VHS tracking marks.

Kevin Kelly once said the tapes literally were sent unorganized and in cardboard boxes.

[shakla]

I have to wonder how much attention WCW paid to their tape library when I watch Clash V and there is audio distortion and old VHS tracking marks.

 

I can picture someone using old tapes like a table cloth to put pizza boxes on during a late night pow-wow at CNN Center, especially during the Jim Herd era..

[shakla]

BTW, do they give TV ratings (like TV-14) for the Network shows? I wonder what last night's Legends House got, with all those 70 year old guys taking it off.

 

I'd also like to know how the clientele felt about having all those "legends" in the show. They pay $50 or whatever to see some attractive guys, and then you get Mean Gene and Jimmy Hart showing it all.

[victory]

I'm probably taking Legends House too seriously again, but I felt really bad for the wrestlers this week. It got to the point where it felt like they were being exploited. I know, I know...they're big boys who signed up for the show of their own free will and knew what they were getting into, but still. At least they ended up enjoying the ridiculous Chippendale's experience and felt good about doing it.

 

Tony Atlas is either playing a character at this point or is legitimately out of tune with the world around him...maybe both. Not quite sure what Hacksaw is so angry about though. I have a feeling those two got together before the show and set up their own little angle.

 

Actually, at the end, everyone seemed to be upset with Atlas. But nothing really happened on the show to indicate why. So, either it's poor editing or Tony Atlas farting in a limo is supposed to be reason enough. Meh. Really low stakes, bottom of the barrel "conflicts" here.

 

Back to the "exploitation" comment I made at the beginning: I can't help but think that this whole thing really cheapens Roddy Piper and makes him look like far less of a star. You wouldn't catch Hogan, Rock, or Stone Cold doing something like this ever. Flair is the exception, maybe, just because he's probably desperate enough at this point. But no "real star" would ever willingly submit themselves to something this low rent. I guess all of these really must need the money. It's kind of heartbreaking.

 

I'll do a separate post about Legends of Wrestling and Mike Graham...

Glad I'm not the only one that didn't understand why Duggan was mad at Atlas. Duggan just comes off like an angry drunk.

[flyonthewall2983]

To take away that it's a reality show and might be scripted anyway, it's hard to take Duggan seriously when he's mad like he was in one segment, because every promo and interview he's done has always been in a shouty voice. Piper looks like an Irish Boston mob guy with that hat he's sometimes wearing, and Hillbilly Jim reminds me of an extra from Justified.

 

shakla, Legends House is rated TV-14. Their ratings system is a little weird. A lot of the Attitude Era Raw's and Smackdowns get TV-PG when they were TV-14 back when they aired, Raw anyway. I think one of the early Starrcades actually merited a TV-MA, I'm guessing for all the bloodshed. Blood seems to bump anything up to a TV-14.

[TravJ1979]

Another edit from the network. Clash VI cut out the Murdoch vs. Orton, Varsity Club vs. Road Warriors and Ranger Ross vs. Iron Sheik matches.

[Johnny Sorrow]

So I've had the network since the first week, but haven't used it that much as our internet speed with Century Link stunk. Constant pauses and buffering. Extreme Rules streamed well but the pic quality suffered. Well we just hooked up Xfinity internet with 50mps and right now I'm watching Spring Stampede on my Roku and new Hi def TV and it looks amazing, the picture is so crisp and the stream is flawless. And in the house right now I'm streaming this, the teenager is streaming a movie in his room, the little kids are watching Netflix, and three people are online with their phones.

Life is good.

 

So I've never actually seen this show, believe it or not. Regal/ Pillman is a fucking great match.

[Blazer]

Yep, Clash of the Champions 7 is still one of my favorite wrestling shows of all-time.

 

-The show is at an armory fieldhouse in Ft. Bragg, NC, and it's 100 degrees inside, and the crowd is sweaty and mostly drunk military folk and is hot for everything. Atmosphere is just phenomenal all night long, even for '80s NWA/WCW.

-A possible legit overlooked classic in Terry Funk vs Ricky Steamboat, and some other fun matches like Varsity Club vs Steiners, Midnight Express vs Headshrinkers/Samoan Swat Team, and Dr. Death vs Terry Gordy.

-One of the all-time WCW Wrestlecrap moments with the debut of the Ding Dongs.

-My favorite patriotism-baiting match of all-time with the ex-military man Ranger Ross vs The Terrorist...and the military audience eats it the fuck up...

-...followed by Gary Hart leading The Great Muta in a martial arts demonstration that Muta refuses to participate in because according to Gary Hart, he is sick of facing inferior "gaijin" competition.

-Coors Light was a sponsor of the show so Jim Ross makes references all night long to wishing he was on his couch drinking a nice cold Coors Light.

-a drunk fan charging the ring during the Midnight Express entrance, and Jim Cornette simply saying "We're going to make your night by letting you live!" as he gets swarmed by military security.

-a plug for THE HOTLINE featuring Jack Victory dressed as an FBI agent and Paul E. being rudely interrupted by a jobber while calling the hotline...also, JOE PEDICINO'S NOSE!

 

Oh fuck, and you didn't even mention the best line of the night.

 

" No, I don't have any issues. No ego. Just a lot of pride. Let's go, Ricky"

 

Jim Ross: "OH MY GOD WHAT A CLOTHESLINE BY LUGER. LEX LUGER WITH A CLOTHESLINE!!!!"

[clintthecrippler]

 

Yep, Clash of the Champions 7 is still one of my favorite wrestling shows of all-time.

 

-The show is at an armory fieldhouse in Ft. Bragg, NC, and it's 100 degrees inside, and the crowd is sweaty and mostly drunk military folk and is hot for everything. Atmosphere is just phenomenal all night long, even for '80s NWA/WCW.

-A possible legit overlooked classic in Terry Funk vs Ricky Steamboat, and some other fun matches like Varsity Club vs Steiners, Midnight Express vs Headshrinkers/Samoan Swat Team, and Dr. Death vs Terry Gordy.

-One of the all-time WCW Wrestlecrap moments with the debut of the Ding Dongs.

-My favorite patriotism-baiting match of all-time with the ex-military man Ranger Ross vs The Terrorist...and the military audience eats it the fuck up...

-...followed by Gary Hart leading The Great Muta in a martial arts demonstration that Muta refuses to participate in because according to Gary Hart, he is sick of facing inferior "gaijin" competition.

-Coors Light was a sponsor of the show so Jim Ross makes references all night long to wishing he was on his couch drinking a nice cold Coors Light.

-a drunk fan charging the ring during the Midnight Express entrance, and Jim Cornette simply saying "We're going to make your night by letting you live!" as he gets swarmed by military security.

-a plug for THE HOTLINE featuring Jack Victory dressed as an FBI agent and Paul E. being rudely interrupted by a jobber while calling the hotline...also, JOE PEDICINO'S NOSE!

 

Oh fuck, and you didn't even mention the best line of the night.

 

" No, I don't have any issues. No ego. Just a lot of pride. Let's go, Ricky"

 

Jim Ross: "OH MY GOD WHAT A CLOTHESLINE BY LUGER. LEX LUGER WITH A CLOTHESLINE!!!!"

 

 

Thus ending Jim Ross' refractory period after his multiple excited releases during Dr. Death vs Terry Gordy.

[Petey]

Will WWE eventually upload the ECW Arena shows that were released on commercial tape or are those owned by someone else? Shows like Double Tables, Big Ass Extreme Bash, etc.

Maybe, but probably not for a while. I don't recall any of those shows ever being on Classics on Demand. I don't even know how many of those tapes WWE owns. RF Video still sells a lot of those tapes (on DVD), so it makes me wonder who's in possession of the master tapes.

[Petey]

Another edit from the network. Clash VI cut out the Murdoch vs. Orton, Varsity Club vs. Road Warriors and Ranger Ross vs. Iron Sheik matches.

I wonder if it was an edit from the network or if the tape they have either doesn't have those matches or doesn't have them in acceptable quality. I forgot what event it was, but I know one of the WCW PPV's has a graphic on the screen about how certain parts of it are un-watchable due to the master tape quality.

[artDDP]

 

Yep, Clash of the Champions 7 is still one of my favorite wrestling shows of all-time.

 

-The show is at an armory fieldhouse in Ft. Bragg, NC, and it's 100 degrees inside, and the crowd is sweaty and mostly drunk military folk and is hot for everything. Atmosphere is just phenomenal all night long, even for '80s NWA/WCW.

-A possible legit overlooked classic in Terry Funk vs Ricky Steamboat, and some other fun matches like Varsity Club vs Steiners, Midnight Express vs Headshrinkers/Samoan Swat Team, and Dr. Death vs Terry Gordy.

-One of the all-time WCW Wrestlecrap moments with the debut of the Ding Dongs.

-My favorite patriotism-baiting match of all-time with the ex-military man Ranger Ross vs The Terrorist...and the military audience eats it the fuck up...

-...followed by Gary Hart leading The Great Muta in a martial arts demonstration that Muta refuses to participate in because according to Gary Hart, he is sick of facing inferior "gaijin" competition.

-Coors Light was a sponsor of the show so Jim Ross makes references all night long to wishing he was on his couch drinking a nice cold Coors Light.

-a drunk fan charging the ring during the Midnight Express entrance, and Jim Cornette simply saying "We're going to make your night by letting you live!" as he gets swarmed by military security.

-a plug for THE HOTLINE featuring Jack Victory dressed as an FBI agent and Paul E. being rudely interrupted by a jobber while calling the hotline...also, JOE PEDICINO'S NOSE!

Definitely checking this card out.

 

Watched this last night and holy hell was that fun. The crowd was white-hot from the very beginning and Jim Ross' shirt was soaked in sweat by the end of the first match.

 

I thought it was hilarious they left that Hotline commercial in there.

 

How could you forget the Scott "Gator" Hall video? For those who haven't seen it, it's clips of Hall wrestling cut with clips of him poking alligators with a stick and facing off with them on a bridge. Also the karaoke version of "Iron Man" in the Road Warriors tribute video.

 

Got a good laugh at the crowd loudly chanting "Bullshit!" during the Doc-Gordy double-countout.

 

And that Funk-Steamboat match? Wow that was fun. Steamboat works a Funk brawl pretty well and shows some serious attitude, like he's enjoying kicking the crap out of Funk and they have a really great match.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, clint!

[TravJ1979]

 

Another edit from the network. Clash VI cut out the Murdoch vs. Orton, Varsity Club vs. Road Warriors and Ranger Ross vs. Iron Sheik matches.

I wonder if it was an edit from the network or if the tape they have either doesn't have those matches or doesn't have them in acceptable quality. I forgot what event it was, but I know one of the WCW PPV's has a graphic on the screen about how certain parts of it are un-watchable due to the master tape quality.

 

 

I believe the PPV you are talking about is Great American Bash 1989. Thankfully, that is more complete than the commercial tape though. I found it strange about Clash VI, because the copy I had in the tape trading days was complete. The quality on the Network shown portion was flawless, especially compared to Clash V. Something is up for them to cut out the NWA Tag Title change. I can understand the other two maybe not being as important in their eyes.