Extreme Rules

[Steenalized]

I liked the Mania match a lot yet hated last night. Last night was all the worst aspect of WWE cage matches (namely, the love of escaping), constant interference (again, in a friggin' cage match), horribly contrived spots, Cena refusing to learn anything mid match, and then a nice big "screw you" at the end when Bray didn't even pin him.

[C.S.]

Three-man booths suck. That's a big reason why the commentary blows now. Far from the only or even main reason, but it is a reason. Before someone says a three-man team worked in WCW, no, it didn't.

[Gregor]

I have no recollection of 2000s Lawler's matches, and I assume that people here generally like those. Either I've never seen them or I've forgotten them.

 

With that said, I've never liked WWF/WWE Lawler. As a part-time heel wrestler, he was good in his role, even if I didn't enjoy watching him, and I'll give him that. As a commentator, he's pretty much always been bad. In the New Generation years, all he did was cheer on the heels. His one-liners weren't funny, and he and Vince were really annoying together, although some of that was probably the fact that they were stil trying to do the topical references thing. For whatever reason he was better with Jim Ross, and I thought he did a good job sucking up to Vince during the Austin angle. Again, though, I'm struggling to think of what he was actually contributing in this period other than a break from Ross talking. My impression of him from his return in 2001 until maybe 2005(?) is that he was sort of like Lord Alfred Hayes in that he was this guy whom I guess you were supposed to like even though he was rooting for the heels.

 

The best stuff he did as an announcer was probably his ongoing hatred of Bret Hart and his unabashed love of Owen. It really annoys me when he starts treating Owen like every other face after Owen turns in late 1997.

[Steenalized]

Three-man booths suck. That's a big reason why the commentary blows now. Far from the only or even main reason, but it is a reason. Before someone says a three-man team worked in WCW, no, it didn't.

It's worked well in boxing.

[C.S.]

 

Three-man booths suck. That's a big reason why the commentary blows now. Far from the only or even main reason, but it is a reason. Before someone says a three-man team worked in WCW, no, it didn't.

It's worked well in boxing.

 

 

Don't really buy that argument. Completely different sport, scenario, and situation.

 

Plus, they don't have a madman shouting nonsense through their headsets.

[SomethingSavage]

Back to Lawler's announcing for just a bit - I loved the "Jerry's son" stuff with Brian Christopher, especially when he was in the light heavyweight mix. I know people are highly critical of Brian competing in that division, but I don't care. I found it really entertaining, with Jerry constantly ducking & dodging the accusations - yet openly cheerleading for Christopher at every twist and turn. Fun stuff.

 

And sure. The constant kissing up to Mr. McMahon was classic heel King. I dug all that stuff. He didn't really start to become a bit tiresome until all the "Puppy" nonsense sprung up in '99 with Debra, but by then - the product was so hot and the women were such a small portion of the show, it didn't really do much to detract from anything major for me.

 

I still stand by the statement that King's real drop-off in quality came with the face turn and the angle versus Tazz. Once he started being buddy cop to JR and playing it up as his pal, it kind of killed that chemistry that they'd held onto for so long. And if that didn't do the trick, then his time away from TV in '01 certainly did. The dynamic between Heyman and JR was so significantly better than anything we'd ever gotten with Lawler and Ross.

 

It's like Lawler simply wasn't funny anymore. And once the PG movement kicked in, he'd certainly lost the source for pretty much all his good material anyhow.

[cowboy hats]

 

Plus, they don't have a madman shouting nonsense through their headsets.

 

 

This seems to be the key. Tough to know for sure who's to blame when an insane carny is barking in everyone's ear for three hours.

[cm funk]

I'm kind of surprised that anyone could hate that show. I thought it was very entertaining and well paced, the right people went over, and I really just had a blast watching it. It was the best "B Show" special event in quite a while, and if this is the quality we can expect going forward I'll be even happier that I have the Network.

 

Pre-show midget match was great fun with the right mix of comedy and high spots. I thought Hornswoggle was really good here for a guy who rarely wrestles and doesn't move around too great

 

Main show 3 way dance opener was good stuff. I liked RVD being in the mix due to the Heyman connection and the show being in ECW country, and there was an issue with RVD beating Cesaro in the IC tourny. He wasn't just randomly added to the match, it was built up well on tv. It was weird how the announcers didn't seem clued in that it was ECW style with the elimination. Also, WWE rarely uses those rules and doesn't do 3 ways on too much of a regular basis anymore, so it felt like something unique.

 

The Rusev squash was nothing, I really didn't pay attention to it. I thought the Putin thing was great cheap heat. Why would that be tasteless as El-P suggested? Why wouldn't an evil Russian heel manager salute Putin?

 

Barrett-Big E was a good match. I felt bad for Big E, he had no heat at all. It's amazing how he was building some momentum before they put the IC belt on him, then proceeded to have him lose and lose and lose in non-title matches and give him nothing interesting to do and all of a sudden his heat vanishes. They never learn from this obvious horrible backwards booking trope of theirs. Hope the same thing doesn't happen to Barrett. Oh, and I really liked him using the Foley elbow followed by the BANG BANG! Probably just a nod to Foley because it was Extreme Rules and he's from Long Island, and not something that's going to be a staple of his moveset.

 

I actually thought Shield-Evolution started off pretty slow and I was worried it wouldn't live up to expectations, then it really picked up as it broke down and got pretty crazy by the end. Thought Ambrose and Rollins were both fantastic here, but I feel like I say that after every Shield match. None of the Evolution guys turned in a standout performance, but they kept up their end of the match. I'm down for a gimmick rematch at Payback (holding out hope for a Wargames style match like a lot of people)

 

Cena-Wyatt was hurt by coming directly after, could have used a cool down match. I didn't hate this match at all, really. I didn't think it was great or anything, but it wasn't nearly as bad as some people are making it sound. This is a match that REALLY needed color and the visual of a blood soaked Wyatt with his beard all red and the blood all over his white pants. I really liked the finish and 'Lil Johnny' and the way Bray just casually walked out of the ring after hitting Sister Abigail

 

I thought Paige-Tamina was perfectly acceptable. I don't really get the hate for Tamina from some people. She's not great but by WWE diva standards she's just fine. Bryan Alvarez was ranting about how Paige should have had a better first challenger than Tamina and I'm like "who?". Tamina was AJ's bodyguard and bestie. Paige beat AJ for the title and AJ seemingly left the company (I know she didn't but that's how it looks on tv). Tamina wants revenge. It's not rocket science.

 

I loved Bryan-Kane. I've come to the conclusion that no matter how they book Bryan people are going to complain. People swore he wouldn't get the main event spot, he did. People swore he wouldn't be booked like a Main Eventer......he got the WWE special "Attitude era style" main event match that is reserved for the very top guys. People are complaining about the fork lift spot.....I thought it was very inventive and worked perfectly in context (Bryan KO'd him in the back, couldn't pick him up and carry him dead weight style, so he improvised). That's the kind of spot that only your tippy top babyfaces like Stone Cold and Cena get. The visual of Bryan raising up the lift and dumping him in the ring like a sack of shit was great. The flying headbutt off of the lift was nuts and got a huge reaction....even though I cringe at Bryan doing something that stupid. That flaming table spot didn't look as good as it could have, but it actually worked because Kane they sprayed the shit out of him with the extinguishers, he was disoriented and trying to get away from that, and got hit with the flying knee. Whether that was the intention or not, it worked out. Don't love Kane getting right back up after the match, or the need for a rematch, but if they're doing it I guess it was ok.

[cm funk]

One more thing on Swagger/Cesaro/RVD......I don't get the sense that anyone was clamoring for another Cesaro-Swagger singles match. They'd already wrestled a few times on tv since the breakup. I worry a little that Swagger might get lost in the shuffle, but not too much since they want to keep pushing Zeb and finding things for him to do. Swagger is always better in tag team matches to me, so I'd like to see Zeb recruit a new Real American

[SomethingSavage]

I'm kind of surprised that anyone could hate that show. I thought it was very entertaining and well paced, the right people went over, and I really just had a blast watching it. It was the best "B Show" special event in quite a while, and if this is the quality we can expect going forward I'll be even happier that I have the Network.

 

Pre-show midget match was great fun with the right mix of comedy and high spots. I thought Hornswoggle was really good here for a guy who rarely wrestles and doesn't move around too great

 

Main show 3 way dance opener was good stuff. I liked RVD being in the mix due to the Heyman connection and the show being in ECW country, and there was an issue with RVD beating Cesaro in the IC tourny. He wasn't just randomly added to the match, it was built up well on tv. It was weird how the announcers didn't seem clued in that it was ECW style with the elimination. Also, WWE rarely uses those rules and doesn't do 3 ways on too much of a regular basis anymore, so it felt like something unique.

 

The Rusev squash was nothing, I really didn't pay attention to it. I thought the Putin thing was great cheap heat. Why would that be tasteless as El-P suggested? Why wouldn't an evil Russian heel manager salute Putin?

 

Barrett-Big E was a good match. I felt bad for Big E, he had no heat at all. It's amazing how he was building some momentum before they put the IC belt on him, then proceeded to have him lose and lose and lose in non-title matches and give him nothing interesting to do and all of a sudden his heat vanishes. They never learn from this obvious horrible backwards booking trope of theirs. Hope the same thing doesn't happen to Barrett. Oh, and I really liked him using the Foley elbow followed by the BANG BANG! Probably just a nod to Foley because it was Extreme Rules and he's from Long Island, and not something that's going to be a staple of his moveset.

 

I actually thought Shield-Evolution started off pretty slow and I was worried it wouldn't live up to expectations, then it really picked up as it broke down and got pretty crazy by the end. Thought Ambrose and Rollins were both fantastic here, but I feel like I say that after every Shield match. None of the Evolution guys turned in a standout performance, but they kept up their end of the match. I'm down for a gimmick rematch at Payback (holding out hope for a Wargames style match like a lot of people)

 

Cena-Wyatt was hurt by coming directly after, could have used a cool down match. I didn't hate this match at all, really. I didn't think it was great or anything, but it wasn't nearly as bad as some people are making it sound. This is a match that REALLY needed color and the visual of a blood soaked Wyatt with his beard all red and the blood all over his white pants. I really liked the finish and 'Lil Johnny' and the way Bray just casually walked out of the ring after hitting Sister Abigail

 

I thought Paige-Tamina was perfectly acceptable. I don't really get the hate for Tamina from some people. She's great but by WWE diva standards she's just fine. Bryan Alvarez was ranting about how Paige should have had a better first challenger than Tamina and I'm like "who?". Tamina was AJ's bodyguard and bestie. Paige beat AJ for the title and AJ seemingly left the company (I know she didn't but that's how it looks on tv). Tamina wants revenge. It's not rocket science.

 

I loved Bryan-Kane. I've come to the conclusion that no matter how they book Bryan people are going to complain. People swore he wouldn't get the main event spot, he did. People swore he wouldn't be booked like a Main Eventer......he got the WWE special "Attitude era style" main event match that is reserved for the very top guys. People are complaining about the fork lift spot.....I thought it was very inventive and worked perfectly in context (Bryan KO'd him in the back, couldn't pick him up and carry him dead weight style, so he improvised). That's the kind of spot that only your tippy top babyfaces like Stone Cold and Cena get. The visual of Bryan raising up the lift and dumping him in the ring like a sack of shit was great. The flying headbutt off of the lift was nuts and got a huge reaction....even though I cringe at Bryan doing something that stupid. That flaming table spot didn't look as good as it could have, but it actually worked because Kane they sprayed the shit out of him with the extinguishers, he was disoriented and trying to get away from that, and got hit with the flying knee. Whether that was the intention or not, it worked out. Don't love Kane getting right back up after the match, or the need for a rematch, but if they're doing it I guess it was ok.

 

This. All of THIS.

 

Ya just about perfectly summed up my thoughts & feelings on the show, man. I'd held off on saying anything about the Steel Cage Match until I went back & watched it a second time, but yeah. I just don't get all the hate, I guess. Don't get me wrong. I can definitely see how some people would be turned away by the finish, but come on. The in-ring action was fine. No. There was no takeaway visual or lasting imprinted image of Wyatt soaked in blood, which ABSOLUTELY would've enhanced things a few notches. But the action itself was solid stuff.

 

I find that I'm actually a lot higher on the Cena/Wyatt series than just about everybody lately. I just fail to see these great big faults that people are talking up all the time. The 'Mania match suffered a lot from that over-the-top, melodramatic broadway-style storytelling they like to do. But that's it. The heavy-handed "acting as if everything should be epic" mannerisms aside, the action itself was (again) solid enough. The big spots still felt big. The bombs still looked devastating.

 

Ditto for the Cage Match, which actually WASN'T hindered by the same style of storytelling. It was slow in certain spots, but that's bound to happen with ANY cage match you're gonna get. There were numerous escape attempts that seemed a tad illogical or out of place, but it's almost an expected sin with Steel Cage Matches by now. There was still a lot of cool stuff worked into the bout though.

 

Honestly, their Mania match got dragged down by the slow, big picture storytelling. It left a flat feeling in the air, because they weren't working with any sense of urgency. Maybe they were working hard, but it never felt like a fight. There was no sense of danger or intensity around a lot of it. Too much talking and acting. And thankfully, I didn't get that same vibe with the Cage Match - which is why I find it even more bizarre that people are bashing it so hard. But hey. To each their own...

 

As far as the Shield stuff goes, I really dig the decision to run with them as a group. Keeping them a collective unit is the way to go for now, because I really think the money IS in the group. Not the individuals alone. Not yet. They're gearing up Reigns the right way, regardless of whether everyone buys into it lock, stock, and barrel at this exact moment or not. He's got that Diesel design all around him. They're getting ready to launch the guy, but it's cool to see them showing some patience with it. They seem to purposely be prolonging the solo run, and that makes perfect sense. No need to rush a split for the Shield just yet.

 

And again, much like their last encounter with the Wyatts on main event, the Shield blew me away with just how awesome they are as a babyface unit now. Rollins has the perfect move-set for it, and Reigns has the perfect push. But man oh man, Ambrose is SUPREME in the role. Never would've expected it to be honest, but he's playing it up HUGE as the babyface in peril. His comebacks aren't anything extraordinary either, but they're exciting as heck and explosive. They're filled with that sense of urgency and intensity that separates mediocre babyfaces from the most memorable and fiery of babyfaces.

[Steenalized]

 

 

Three-man booths suck. That's a big reason why the commentary blows now. Far from the only or even main reason, but it is a reason. Before someone says a three-man team worked in WCW, no, it didn't.

It's worked well in boxing.

 

 

Don't really buy that argument. Completely different sport, scenario, and situation.

 

Plus, they don't have a madman shouting nonsense through their headsets.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with a three man booth. It can work and our small pool of samples, coupled with the madman shouting nonsense like you said, don't exactly dispel the idea.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

Here's a POV video of Rollin's jump last night. Crazy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKvzFBztzjM

 

 

edit: Sorry Loss, I failed at the embed code there.

Wow. I haven't finished the rest of the show but I know nothing that follows will top this match. I thought the Evolution control segment was a tad tedious but in a way it made the chaos that erupted at the end that much more enjoyable. It's not as good as the Shield/Wyatt matches (I'd have to rewatch all three but I don't think it is at least) but it's pretty close behind them. I love six (or more) man tags and wish they would use them more to keep PPV singles matches special for the shows.

[Petey]

I have no recollection of 2000s Lawler's matches, and I assume that people here generally like those. Either I've never seen them or I've forgotten them.

 

With that said, I've never liked WWF/WWE Lawler. As a part-time heel wrestler, he was good in his role, even if I didn't enjoy watching him, and I'll give him that. As a commentator, he's pretty much always been bad. In the New Generation years, all he did was cheer on the heels. His one-liners weren't funny, and he and Vince were really annoying together, although some of that was probably the fact that they were stil trying to do the topical references thing. For whatever reason he was better with Jim Ross, and I thought he did a good job sucking up to Vince during the Austin angle. Again, though, I'm struggling to think of what he was actually contributing in this period other than a break from Ross talking. My impression of him from his return in 2001 until maybe 2005(?) is that he was sort of like Lord Alfred Hayes in that he was this guy whom I guess you were supposed to like even though he was rooting for the heels.

 

The best stuff he did as an announcer was probably his ongoing hatred of Bret Hart and his unabashed love of Owen. It really annoys me when he starts treating Owen like every other face after Owen turns in late 1997.

I would say working with Ross was why Lawler was better.

 

Was Lord Alfred really cheering the heels though? I know he was clearly a heel by like 93 or so, but I always just thought he called it pretty much straight up back in the 80's.

 

Lawler's been stale for a while. I remember tuning out from some point in late 05 until probably Punk's promo in 2011 and when I watched the first stretch of shows in nearly six years, I couldn't believe how much worse Lawler had become, which is amazing because he wasn't great in 2005.

[Migs]

If you watch 2001 in sequence, the upgrade from Lawler to Heyman, and the downgrade when Lawler returns, is really jarring.

[SomethingSavage]

Heyman absolutely helped to infuse the product with renewed energy for awhile there, especially throughout the spring months after the product took a dip following Mania X7.

 

Paul E's commentary practically did for RVD and Rhyno in 2001 what his booking would do for Rey (and some of the SmackDown Six) in 2004.

[Negro Suave]

Kane is a tremendous worker. You'd be hard pressed to find any other worker say differently. That being said, DBD working a Kane match is kind of silly. Without DBD having an equalizer it's kind of boring. The fans already accept him as the better wrestler... he has nothing to prove in a gimmicky kane match. The match was more to put over Kane than DBD and that is why it fell flat to me. You see if it was Randy Orton in the same match it would be more believable and would have done more to further the character. Honestly there isn't very many people in the main event picture other than Orton that really match up well to DBD. Cena would be a good match, and Bray Wyatt would be an incredible matchup I believe.

 

 

Onto Wyatt vs Cena... my only problem with this match was... does this really need to be in a cage? There was no real reason for the cage other than hey it's extreme rules. Maybe chain the Wyatts up on opposite sides... and have the creepy kid unlock one of their chains. Then the other... then go into the finish while he is distracted by the kid singing. I dunno I just think the Cage took away from the match instead of added to it. Wyatt vs Cena in a cell.. that would be amazing.

 

 

Tamina vs Paige - Meh match, I'm in love with Tamina. Paige is really white but she is really good.

 

Shield vs Evolution - This was about as wild of a six man match as you can get. makes me wish that there were more serious Trios in the WWE because that match had everything. this was the match of the night for me.

 

Rusev vs Black Dudes - Are they going to let Rusev beat up any non minorities? Lana is the star of this and watching her lean over the edge of the ring. I'm a big fan of the monster type of guy but he is going to fall off without Lana.

 

Triple threat Match - I though this was pretty darn good. RVD bumped like a champ, Swagger didn't shit the bed, and Cesaro controlled the whole thing. It was a solid three way... that was almost ruined by everyone not knowing it was elimination. Which was a pointless stipulation. Could have done the same thing and better in a single fall match.

 

Wee LC - This is what a gimmick match is! it was fantastic, Pretty much spot on perfect opener.

[scott6173]

Being at the IZOD Center for this show, I can say us as a crowd was tremendous. A lot of energy, particuarly almost all the heels. The only heels that really got BOOED was Kane and Batista. Bad News Barrett may have been more over than Bray Wyatt or Cesaro.

[Dwide Schrude]

I'm a little behind on watching everything, but I just caught the "Extreme Rules Fallout" and the post show press conferences were just beyond hokey. And I'm not trying to be super critical snarky negative nancy. I encourage them doing stuff like this for the WWE Network, but it was the least believable press conference possible. I'm pretty sure, it was just prerecorded questions and Daniel Bryan was in the room by himself. And he didn't even put a shirt on. Hilariously bad, but again I appreciate them trying to add as much content for the fans as possible.

[SomethingSavage]

I tend to agree. Feels very puro-influenced to me, which I honestly dig. A lot actually.

 

But yeah. If they're reaching for that official press conference feel, even in a "fallout" type of atmosphere, at least throw some towels & tracksuits on the guys. Suits and ties would be good. I know this ain't meant to be the Hall of Fame, but the actual press conferences are better. If they're going to go this route, maybe just routine "locker room" style interviews are best.

 

The execution is a little wonky right now, but it's still early into the experiment. I hope they stick with it (or something similar) and keep running this type of free content on the Network. It's an extra little incentive for some people.

[goc]

WeeLC felt like one of the most unique matches I've ever seen. Tons of fun and should have been on the main show but I can see the logic of wanting that to open and get the crowd hot.