The Smart Crowd

[BillThompson]

I've been going through the old PPVs on the Network the past few months. In general it's been a treat to hear/see the way the crowds are reacting to the wrestling. They aren't in on it, they aren't marking for themselves or trying to create chants that will draw attention to them. They are hating the heels, loving the faces, and when they are quiet it's because the match isn't engaging them.

 

I'm currently on ECW Barely Legal and this crowd is bugging me right from the opening. Is the ECW crowd the beginning of the present day live crowd? Is the influence of ECW to blame for the crowds of today who don't seem to care about what's happening in the ring, and instead are more concerned with coming up with a cool chant or showing how smart they are with their insider knowledge? If memory serves me correctly I'll see more of this as I move into the Attitude Era in the WWF, and man am I dreading those crowds.

 

What say you, are the crowds today terrible, or do you not mind? Did it start with ECW, or am I giving them too much credit?

[concrete1992]

I'm constantly cheering faces and jeering heels at my local shows but seems like the only way most others know how to show any interest is through chant. I saw sat through a 20+ minute Chris Hero vs. Colin Delaney match clapping and cheering most of the time cause I was enjoying it. Most others sat on their hands. then going towards the closing stretch they felt like cheering "This is Awesome!". To be fair I joined in on cause I was enjoying myself but why aren't these people showing their joy during the match that is what they call awesome? It is so supremely annoying.

[BillThompson]

I'll admit, modern day crowds are why I don't bother with going to live wrestling anymore. I'm not some super old school guy either, I love wrestling from today just as much as wrestling from the past. I just know that if I go to a live event with a ton of people who don't actually care about the wrestling and only care about getting themselves over I'm not going to enjoy the experience.

[(BP)]

I got Extreme Rising tickets for my birthday last year, and the ECW arena crowd was maybe 10% smart fans and 90% wild animals screaming funny stuff. I haven't been to a WWE show in years, but it always looks like a 80/20 split between families and smarky types. Early 90s WCW definitely had some smart crowd chants from what I've seen on the network.

[The Chief]

There were s lot of casuals during the Attitude Era WWF, those crowds aren't bad at all. That kind of thing didn't really become over the top in the WWE until around the time Cena became the man. In the Attitude Era, people still cheered the faces and booed the heels. Now, who the faces and heels were could get confusing, but I don't think that's the same thing. Those crowds were one hundred percent behind Austin kicking peoples asses, for example.

[BillThompson]

I recall the Attitude Era being a lot of fans sitting on their hands during the actual match and only cheering during entrances and the finishes. Maybe I'll be wrong though.

[tim]

I've been meaning to start a thread about 'sociology' of wrestling crowds these days actually. As nice as it is to hear an old school crowd hot and "playing along" with the show, booing heels and cheering faces passionately, I don't think we should get down on todays "smart crowds" so much. Because in 2014, what are the crowds that add the most to the show? Are they last night's Nashville crowd who cheered Cena like they're "supposed" to? Or is it the smart crowd in Chicago who don't play along, try to get themselves over, but respond loud and enthusiastically to everything, have their own opinion, and force WWE into putting on a better show than they would otherwise? Which crowd would you rather see RAW in front of or be a part of?

[BillThompson]

I'd choose neither, and go with a crowd somewhere in the middle. Cheer and have fun, that's what I want crowds to do, but not at the expense of the wrestlers. Things like the "You Fucked Up" chant are a blemish upon fans. Things like "This is Awesome", or "Insert Promotion Here, Insert Promotion Here" aren't as bad, but annoying because of the reasons they originate and are carried out. Chicago crowds are problematic because I don't think they truly care about what they are seeing, but want to come across as smart and cooler than anyone else in the arena, especially the wrestlers. That to me is not a hot crowd, but an annoyingly smug crowd.

[Loss]

What exactly is a modern crowd supposed to boo during a match when the tactics that would normally elicit that response aren't allowed? The only thing that gets cheered/booed in a lot of modern wrestling is the momentum shift from Guy We Don't Like to Guy We Like. Eye poking, rope holding, using a chair after a ref distraction -- not so much. To me, working is about creating a change in crowd reaction through actions in the ring that manipulate emotions of the viewers. If people are just cheering or booing their predisposed favorites regardless of what is happening in the ring, there isn't as much skill being demonstrated in the artform.

[Matt D]

It's one reason why it's so cool to watch Goldust work in 2014, because he can be in a headlock and get the crowd into a match like no one else on the card.

[FedEx227]

I'd choose neither, and go with a crowd somewhere in the middle. Cheer and have fun, that's what I want crowds to do, but not at the expense of the wrestlers. Things like the "You Fucked Up" chant are a blemish upon fans. Things like "This is Awesome", or "Insert Promotion Here, Insert Promotion Here" aren't as bad, but annoying because of the reasons they originate and are carried out. Chicago crowds are problematic because I don't think they truly care about what they are seeing, but want to come across as smart and cooler than anyone else in the arena, especially the wrestlers. That to me is not a hot crowd, but an annoyingly smug crowd.

 

I don't think that's the Chicago crowds intention at all (having been in every one of them for the last 10 or so years). It's a crowd of passionate but mostly smart wrestling fans that are chomping at the bit for something to sink their teeth into. They are a crowd that will cheer for something if presented properly and given the time and logic it deserves. There's a reason a few of the most notable face turns in history happened in front of the Chicago crowd. Mostly, they were done right and the crowd responded as such. Sure, they boo some guys that are "faces" and cheer others that are "heels" but by and large if you're positioned as someone evil, they'll boo you.

 

Take the post-Punk Raw, they booed Paul Heyman, Triple H and Stephanie. Loved Daniel Bryan. The CM Punk chants were what they were, that was bound to happen but WWE smartly leveraged it into something tangible to progress their storylines.

 

When stories are done well and done right (Punk/Cena MITB), they respond as such. When they are being presented a shit product, they boo, they chant, etc.

[Johnny Guitar]

I think a big shift in crowd behavior occured when WWE started playing the live feed through the titantron during Raw.

 

When it was first introduced it was used to show the, at the time modest entrance videos, and occasional backstage skit. During the matches it just showed the WWF logo which meant that all the fan focus was directed towards the ring.

 

Once they started showing the live feed through it and fans realised that what was on the tiantron, was what the home viewers saw. There was a massive increae in signs and people acting out for the camera

[Tim Cooke]

The first match of the Chikara restart PPV had some of the better heel heat I have seen in recent times. No 'This is Awesome" or "This is wrestling" chants, just very over faces and very over heels. Haven't seen anything else on that show beyond it but it shocked me how loud the heel heat was.

[DR Ackermann]

I was at the DGUSA iPPV from Wrestlemania weekend and while I didn't really like the show, I completely hated the crowd. They were just waiting for any excuse to chant "THIS IS AWESOME!" They were sitting there waiting for big spots to happen. I don't know if that obnoxious 'smart' crowd thing started in ECW, but ECW's crowds certainly influenced a lot of people. I watched the Sandman/Austin/Whipwreck triple threat from 12/95 a few days ago and the audience chanted "boring" the second Austin and Mikey started exchanging holds (actually wrestling). They never gave the wrestlers a chance to build anything in a traditional way in ECW. They wanted action, highspots and violence and were impatient when it came to anything else. The show was about them as much as anything. But they wanted what they wanted and they got it.

 

I think it was Axl Rotten who said that in ECW the fans cheated themselves out of a lot of good matches because they wouldn't allow the wrestlers to work rest holds, communicate and build heat without shitting all over them.

[Coffey]

I used to think that the "smart" crowds were just people having fun...until I heard a "we are awesome" chant & it all went out the window. I want loud, vocal, animated crowds...but I don't want them hijacking the show from the at-home viewing audience.

[goodhelmet]

I recall the Attitude Era being a lot of fans sitting on their hands during the actual match and only cheering during entrances and the finishes. Maybe I'll be wrong though.

 

At some point this may be true but in 1998 WWF it is wrong from the tons of matches I have been going through. Shoe and I just watched some WWF matches from 1998 last night and the crowd was hot for some midcard matches, not just the entrances. Maybe this becomes more apparent in 1999 or 2000.

[DMJ]

I might go as far as to say that ECW created the "smart crowd" - only because, when WCW and WWE were competing around 97', ECW was also gaining more and more popularity as the "underground" company. For fans too young to remember AWA or even GWF or not knowledgeable enough to know anything about the USWA or SMW, ECW was THE "major" indy fed. Sabu was on the cover of PWI and Raven's success in WCW made many people believe he was the "quintessential" ECW guy - further drawing attention to what ECW stood for.

 

This led to more and more 13-16 year olds who had never known anything more than Hulkamania and the WWF and WCW's most cartoonish years in the mid-90s to discover that there was a whole other world of wrestling (and wrestling fans) where the audience was more than just a backdrop. Hell, they didn't just chant obscenities at who they didn't like, they brought weapons for their heroes to use!

 

Oh, and the internet. The internet definitely changed the game. I remember going onto rec.sports.pro-wrestling when I was in middle school and having my mind blown. Soon, I was using words like "shoot" and "workrate" and "job" when, a few years earlier, I knew match outcomes were predetermined, but didn't really have the language to discuss what I was watching. Learning the lingo, as so many fans did in the late 90s, allowed more and more to get "smart" (or think they were) and knowledge, sadly, often leads to cynicism, arrogance, and a "too cool for school" attitude. These three traits basically sum up today's "smart crowds."

 

On a happier note - I think more and more "smart" fans are recognizing the damage of being contrary all the time and have been actively booing the heels and cheering the faces as a way to show just how GOOD the heel or face is at what they're doing. For example, in Cleveland, at indy shows and even at WWE shows, the loud, obnoxious "smart" fans who cynically act contrary just to get themselves over are treated like pariahs now - outright taunted, in fact - by hipper fans who show their appreciation for a good heel by booing him and show love to a good face by cheering him, just like we're supposed to. We can complain about the ref having his back turned, but we do it the way fans would in 88'. We boo when a manager or valet cheats, instead of cheering their brilliance the way modern fans would probably have turned Bobby Heenan into a babyface. We "play along" not because we're dumb, but because its simply funner to play along. Why should the wrestlers have all the fun of "following a script" when, as an audience member, its equally fun to "play dumb" and get riled up when the good guy loses, even if the good guy is a terribly green stiff and the heel is a world class worker.

[rovert]

The first match of the Chikara restart PPV had some of the better heel heat I have seen in recent times. No 'This is Awesome" or "This is wrestling" chants

 

No CM Punk chants either

[Johnny Sorrow]

The lost "art" of being a fan who cheers for the bad guys is doing it kayfabe. Me and Wolfman didn't cheer bad guys to be "cool" back in the 80's, we actually liked a lot of the bad guys and we liked it when they'd cheat . For us there was no "smart" about it. Lol. Wolfman was more evil than me, I always cheered Valiant, Dusty, and Magnum

 

But it was also having fun and immersing ourselves in the show . We were these two weirdos cheering cheating, it was fun.

[JaymeFuture]

Ultimately, I think it comes down to the massive disconnect between the product the audience wants and the product WWE intends to give them. It's not the fans job to do anything, it's the company's job to get in their heads, see who they like and dislike and then manipulate them accordingly. They're so far off the mark with their audience, and don't really even care. The reason this dynamic seemed to have picked up with Cena is because that's one of the first times I can think of when the company said "you know what, fuck it, we're not gonna budge". A large percentage dislike Cena, they forced him down people's throats as a face, so those people either left or just don't care as much because they realised it doesn't matter.

 

There have always been crowds that have been a little funny - Baltimore and Philly would at times come off like heel crowds for the NWA back in the late 80s. Ronnie Garvin being booed at Starrcade. It happens. But in many of those cases it's either because the crowd just likes a heel, doesn't like the babyface, or isn't the type of product they can really care about, so they don't do anything until they get a chance to play "wrestling crowd" and do their chant, or just entertain themselves.

 

I can't remember who it was on here who compared WWE to a Nickelodeon show, but it's a perfect comparison. This product, for 3 hours, isn't going to generate a lot of emotion organically.

[FedEx227]

I think you hit it on the head Jayme, it's ultimately the company's job to create and cultivate people that the majority of the fans hate or like. It's not easy, but it never was. It took well-crafted booking, obvious splits and an understanding of what your fans wanted to do it in the past.

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin is the perfect example of them taking what was established as "bad guy" behaviors and turning them into "good guy" behaviors by giving him an easily hateable enemy. That isn't unlike Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority. If you do a good job creating heels and faces, the fans even the "smart ones" will respond how you want them. If you create a bunch of shades of grays who trade wins back and forth of course they'll tune it.

 

It also doesn't help that their announcers do little to build these characters or their stories and trail off during matches. If the guys paid to narrate the action can't help but giggle and get themselves over, why shouldn't the fans?