Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Whenever I go through my annual "I'm going to try and get back into WWE" phase around Wrestlemania, Randy Orton is always one of the wrestlers who eventually forces me to throw in the towel and give up hope. Why is he always at or near the top of the card? He never gets any type of pop or heat. He never has a good match. His promos are awful. His mannerisms are unintentionally comical. Nobody says, "We gotta buy tickets for the WWE show, Randy Orton is wrestling!" And nobody outside of regular WWE fans has any idea who he is. Why does Randy Orton remain near the top of the card when it appears that nobody gives a shit about him? Or do I just happen to tune in during the two months out of the year where Orton is in a slump and people actually do give a shit about him the other 10 months? I'm not one to bitch and moan whenever someone I don't care for remains in a top slot. I get how the business works. But no matter how I look at it, I can't come up with any logical reason why Randy Orton is treated like a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 His mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I actually enjoy his work most of the time. I agree that his character is stale as hell, though. I actually thought his pseudo-face run from a few years ago was the best chance they had to draw money with him. I wish I could remember the context or exact time-frame, but he was basically a tweener lone wolf for a while. During this stretch he didn't talk much and would get huge pops whenever he RKO'd someone. He had almost a Stone Cold vibe where people loved to see him take people out for no reason. Sadly they didn't do a lot with him at this time b/c I think they still had cold feet due to his 2 strikes and then eventually they turned him heel and he became extremely boring again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subatomic_elbow Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Orton is always kept near the top of the card because he is dependable. Hell, he's basically the poster boy and prototype for 'Modern WWE' style wrestling. Yes, he is boring, but he is solid enough in the ring. To me, he feels like a guy who would benefit from a complete rebuilding, but I don't think it is likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Randy Orton has, since 2006, not only not entertained me, but made me want to turn the channel completely when he was / is on. He has 0 charisma, isnt great in the ring to cover it up. His promos are awful. He has grown up over the years it seems from his younger days where he was good in the ring and mic but an ass outside the ring...There was one spot where he was coming back...August 07 - Dec 07, but he lost it again...and Cena and Shawn were why he was good during that time is my opinion. Back to today, there is just NOTHING that could be done to make him any better cause I dont think he has what it takes to be that kind of guy, no matter what WWE does to him, rebuild or not...he is a hole for charisma and not a believable character.. That and the dishonorable discharge from the military is disgusting as well..... SO yeah, if he left, things would be better to me, as it would open a main spot to someone that actually has a shot to bring things in WWE back up.... Worthless...no I have never been in a ring or think I could entertain a crowd, but I am not paid to, he is..and he fails miserably at it! And to hear him bash fans for just talking and never living it, I hope he NEVER has made one comment about a movie or even another job type, cause he has never done it or lived it... Why treated as a star? I have no idea outside of they have no idea what else to do and are afraid to take a chance and make big waves as it could force things to get worse OR better, and they seem to like stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I didn't call him a black hole years ago for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Like I said in the Payback thread, I'm probably lucky in that staying away from wrestling for so long has kept me from being overexposed to Orton and some of the other Same Old Names in WWE. Astonishingly enough, I actually think he's...pretty good? For me, he's a much better fit as an arrogant, aloof heel - his look and his history already makes it difficult to generate any sort of sympathy as a face. The mannerisms that he has are overblown, true, but they fit -- his signature "look at me" pose conveys arrogance just as effectively, if not more so, than most of Martel's schtick -- and subtlety isn't a virtue when you're trying to sell a moment to fans in the cheapest seats of the stadium. Plus, it's hard to fault Orton for bursting into an inane routine of "coiling viper" contortions to cue his finisher (and then patiently waiting for his opponent to get up) when 90% of the roster does their own variation of it; at this point, it might as well be a Modern WWE trope. What I've seen of his in-ring work is solid enough and his signature moves match his persona fairly well too. The ability to hit the RKO out of multiple situations plays well into the whole "Viper" thing and the draping DDT gives him a perfect opportunity to preen a bit. So, yeah, I guess I care. If you're only counting full-time guys on the roster (i.e. not Triple H), he's probably the most credible and capable pure heel that they've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think Orton is really good in the ring, but he has suffered from bad booking. Not in terms of card positioning, as he's often well above where he should be. And I guess it's hard to make a case for Orton and Cena having to survive terrible booking, even though they both have, considering that they still fare better than everyone else. But if you look at last fall, they were trying to get Orton over as a heel with those horrible PPV finishes, and all it did was put heat on WWE. He also had to be chided by HHH and Stephanie every week for not reaching his potential. Yes, it flopped but I think most would have flopped under those circumstances. Again, I don't want anyone to take from my post that Orton isn't pushed. He most definitely is, and sometimes I think he's overpushed to the point that it hurts him because of the perception that he's the teacher's pet. But his portrayal is a tough sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted June 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think Orton is really good in the ring, but he has suffered from bad booking. Not in terms of card positioning, as he's often well above where he should be. And I guess it's hard to make a case for Orton and Cena having to survive terrible booking, even though they both have, considering that they still fare better than everyone else. But if you look at last fall, they were trying to get Orton over as a heel with those horrible PPV finishes, and all it did was put heat on WWE. He also had to be chided by HHH and Stephanie every week for not reaching his potential. Yes, it flopped but I think most would have flopped under those circumstances. Again, I don't want anyone to take from my post that Orton isn't pushed. He most definitely is, and sometimes I think he's overpushed to the point that it hurts him because of the perception that he's the teacher's pet. But his portrayal is a tough sell. I gotta disagree, Loss. Orton has been near the top of the card for so long, it would be insulting to the audience and bad booking if the likes of HHH and Steph didn't chide him for never getting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 That stretch in 2011 I believe where he was a face against guys like Christian and Henry was probably his best run to me. He's still very good in the ring but his character,style,mic skills are all played out. He like Cena are both great in the ring but people are sick of the character so they equate that to them sucking. I bet if Orton got an overhaul character wise but wrestled the same people would love him. It's also not his fault that fcw in the mid 00s used his body type and trunks as a blueprint for everyone coming to the roster. When people used to bitch about everyone looking the same they would always say everyone looks like Orton. I think that took away from his persona as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted June 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 A couple of you are saying that Orton is good to great in the ring. To me he's very mechanical and a paint-by-the-numbers type of worker, but to each their own. At least a few of you appear to give a shit about Randy Orton because you think he is, or has been, decent in the right. So that kind of answers the question I posed in the thread title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Randy Orton is one of my least favourite wrestlers of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I gotta disagree, Loss. Orton has been near the top of the card for so long, it would be insulting to the audience and bad booking if the likes of HHH and Steph didn't chide him for never getting over. I don't know. Good booking usually avoids the obvious truths that are detrimental to what they are aiming to accomplish. It's easy to forget because it's not how things are done anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well, nowadays, I think the 2014 version of Rob Vam Dam has climbed to the top of the mountain in terms of wrestlers that I don't give a shit about. Before Van Dam came back, it was a neck-and-neck fight between Randy Orton & Alberto Del Rio however. They're just both so bland & kinda...just there. Kane & The Big Show have also both been around for WAY too long at this point. So, to answer the thread title, nope -- don't give a shit about Orton & wish he would go away. Another example of where I think wrestlers getting "seasons" off, like NBA, NFL could help keep them fresh. There's not territories anymore, so you can't exactly ship Orton to Florida, Texas or Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholzerman Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I used to hate Randy Orton, but sometime around the beginning of summer last year, when he was putting in work in Shield six-man tags, I started to warm up to him. Then he turned and joined The Authority, and he put in the best character work that I've seen from him since I came back to wrestling in 2008. His snively little entitled shithead character as "Face of WWE" was brilliant, and when he was kissing ass to stay on Trips' good side, he found his perfect role. I like him okay now that he's just in the background. It's funny how he's taken such a backseat since headlining WrestleMania, but I enjoy him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Very over exposed, been on national tv too long. And suffers from being booked poorly at times, like Triple H and John Cena. With that said Randy Orton is one of the top 10 best workers in the business today. A true ring general in an industry that has so few of them today. I get tired of him along with everyone else, then I see how he performed at Mania and remembered just how good he is. He will be one of those guys who will be appreciated more when he is not on TV every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I can honestly say there has NEVER been a main eventer that has lasted this long that I have disliked more...since I got into wrestling seriously in late 85....Not one redeeming quality. I will REALLY appreciate when he's not on TV every week...but then if he comes back, I'd would be so appreciative! To me, its just really really strange that as a young mid-carder, joining Evolution (2002 - mid '04) he was great. He had character, he had that something that made you like or hate him. I enjoyed seeing him on the mic and in the ring (vs. RVD in 2003 at Armageddon and RAW come to mind)...but he fell off a CLIFF when he turned face after Summerslam 2004 and never got "IT" back. There isnt a role ANYWHERE he'd be good. Just cause things would be strange, he'd probably go to TNA and be good...opposite of the good WWE guys that went there and werent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 He had a pretty brutal resthold phase when he was really swelled up on the gas, but he's had good to great showings the last few years. Also, it's hard to believe now with how apathetic crowds are to him, but only a couple of years ago he was crazy over without even having substantial programs to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Brian - I'm with you. Thing for me is that he's just so artificial in everything he does. Possibly the least authentic wrestler of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 He's had far too many strong matches for me to say I don't give two shits about him. The character is BEYOND stale to me, and I think that's clearly his weakest point. His character HAS been booked very well in the past, but it comes & goes in waves. The problem is - the lows are freaking CANYONS. They're as low as can be, and it's tired. His character is stagnant. And yeah. He's overexposed on TV. Like, by a BIG margin. When he's in a holding pattern, it REALLY feels slow & stalled. But the guy's in-ring work is okay by me. He's not the best, and he's not lighting up the sky with originality all the time. But I'd say he's updated his arsenal enough over the years to keep him relatively fresh enough. He's been in some incredibly entertaining matches over the years, in my eyes. I can't just discount that when he's handled badly. Creatively, he hasn't been given a whole lot to work with, and he's not exactly the kind of guy that has this captivating showmanship and presence to begin with. So when he's given sluggish stories and shit to work around, it practically puts people to sleep. He's also in a weird predicament - because his best character work comes out as the dickish, obnoxious, self-entitled, arrogant heel. But he's SO MUCH better in the ring as a babyface. I think even the most diehard fans of Randy would tell you the same. Just list his best matches, and they're usually going to be when he was portraying the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Orton is a good wrestler, but he's bland on the mic, stale, and overexposed. Not his fault though. With the death of the territories, there's nowhere else for him to go. Back in the day, he would have been able to move from one place to another and remain fresh. No such option exists anymore. (Before someone says TNA, ROH, or Japan, come on...) That and the dishonorable discharge from the military is disgusting as well..... Don't want to turn this into a political thread, especially since this point is entirely irrelevant to his work as a wrestler, so I'll just say this... I'm more forgiving. He was young, joined the Marine Corps impulsively, and handled the situation immaturely (a pattern he'd repeat for a long time thereafter). But were his actions really that bad? IMO, it's better that he "ran away" BEFORE being placed in a combat situation and potentially putting everyone else's lives in danger. I'm not sure, though, why he couldn't just leave the Marines through the proper, official channels...is there not a way to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, let's stay away from the dishonorable discharge topic. We're evaluating Randy Orton the wrestler and performer, not Randy Orton the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sorry I brought up, it was in teh heat of my rant on him....I really had no rights to attack that...I just have a lot of friends in the military that didnt take to that too well and still dont like him.... But please delete the part of the post if you;d like and this one if needed! I will stick to hating him for being terrible in WWE...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Orton is a perfectly fine wrestler, and when in the ring with someone of better skill he's more than capable of having great matches and doing great/interesting things. He's not a guy who can carry others though, and too often he's been put in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 One thing I'll say about Orton is that sometimes he really does something I love. There's not much this year I liked more than him going off on Cleveland or wherever that he was stuck on the house mic during a commercial. It was great. Stuff like that and the crazy jumping jacks. 90% of the time he's as formulaic as you get but that 10% of the time, he shines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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