Does anybody give a shit about Randy Orton?

[SomethingSavage]

I forgot about those jumping jacks he'd do. Tremendous. Gotta keep that heart rate up.

 

Didn't he even bust out a cartwheel during the last babyface run?

[Loss]

When he first came around, Orton had such douchebag appeal that I really think in the right hands, he could have been molded into this generation's Tully Blanchard -- just a total prick who had a face very much worth punching. Instead, they gave him this stupid Hot Topic gimmick where he does what the voices in his head tell him to do. He should have been pushed as the rich kid everyone knows who gets a sports car on his 16th birthday and wrecks it right away, the kind of jerk that brags about who his dad is.

 

I also really loved Randy and Bob Orton as a duo and think they could have done more with that.

[flyonthewall2983]

The program he did with Mick Foley is probably the best single angle WWE has done since the WCW buyout. It was at least the one that had me the most attuned and cheered Mick and fucking loathed Randy. Ever since the product has been what it is, and with it's share of great matches but no program has landed like that one did with me.

 

His in-ring work is pretty good, but his character sucks, his music sucks and he's not that great on the stick.

[Johnny Sorrow]

If Orton could actually ever be himself, as evidenced in that great interview with Rosenberg from last year, he'd get over as fuck as a good guy. He came off so cool and real there.

[MikeCampbell]

I guess it depends on how exactly you define "give a shit about" in regards to Orton. Plenty of people cared about him after Summerslam last year, but they hated him with a passion for his part in screwing Daniel Bryan. And, most of the hate was for HHH, with Orton being his puppet. There have been periods that I've enjoyed Orton matches, like the series with Christian and Mark Henry, but I haven't cared about Orton as a character in years, probably not since the days of the Legacy group, come to think of it.

 

I've said it before, Orton has been around, and done the same shit for so long, that he's stale no matter what.

[Strummer]

Looking back the Orton/Bryan program from last fall was an absolute mess that severely hurt Orton and would have killed any babyface other than Bryan. The heat was supposed to go to Orton but wound up on the company ( via HHH and Steph). It's difficult to feel sorry for Orton as he's always pushed but the stuff last fall was a potential career killer.

 

I enjoyed the RKO stuff and loved his pairing with his dad. Him going against the McMahons in early 09 was probably the most over he's ever been and the most effective he's ever been used. Seemed to die when they started the Legacy stuff

[JaymeFuture]

I forgot about those jumping jacks he'd do. Tremendous. Gotta keep that heart rate up.

 

Didn't he even bust out a cartwheel during the last babyface run?

 

Wasn't it like...he RKO'd Mark Henry, then jumped high into the air, did the splits and touched his toes, and then double fist-pumped? It was one of the most out of character things I've ever seen and it was just hysterical.

[goc]

I think Orton is really good in the ring, but he has suffered from bad booking. Not in terms of card positioning, as he's often well above where he should be. And I guess it's hard to make a case for Orton and Cena having to survive terrible booking, even though they both have, considering that they still fare better than everyone else.

 

But if you look at last fall, they were trying to get Orton over as a heel with those horrible PPV finishes, and all it did was put heat on WWE. He also had to be chided by HHH and Stephanie every week for not reaching his potential. Yes, it flopped but I think most would have flopped under those circumstances.

 

Again, I don't want anyone to take from my post that Orton isn't pushed. He most definitely is, and sometimes I think he's overpushed to the point that it hurts him because of the perception that he's the teacher's pet. But his portrayal is a tough sell.

I agree that there was actually a chance for Orton to finally reach the level that WWE sees him as being on after SummerSlam. I was really stoked to see what he would do after winning MITB last year because I really liked that promo where he came out and just fucked with Cena's head about when he would cash in the briefcase. Unfortunately they just made him HHH & Steph's bitch after SummerSlam instead of putting any heat on him.

 

He even had that promo after they emasculated him where he talked about how he had to stop doing certain things and change who he was for the last few years but now he was ready to be The Viper again. But after he had that awesome beatdown on The Miz it's like they just forgot about building him back up as dangerous and went back to making him a bitch.

[funkdoc]

seconding all the "artificial" comments so hard

 

i said this elsewhere on here but it's funny when i see meltzer say that orton is one of the few in WWE who comes off like a star - to me he comes off as a guy TRYING to come off as a star

 

i could see more appreciation for his matches after he retires, though. he's definitely a guy who's had a lot of non-wrestling strikes against him with smarks, and it would be naive to think that doesn't factor into opinions of him...

[cubbymark]

Orton to me is a natural heel. He looks like a smug prick, he should act like a smug prick. He really shouldn't be doing babyface shtick. And if he were in Mid-South, he would have made Bill Watts a shit-ton of money.

 

That said, he is extremely boring to me. For having the "look" everything he does comes across so forced and phony. The IED stuff was silly. Coiling into a viper every single time is silly. He's just "meh."

[Alucard]

I loved Orton's 2010-2012. He was super over after he first turned face in 2010 and was getting some monster pops. Crowd was hot for him in the 2010 MITB. Thought 2011 was his best in ring year with great matches almost weekly against a wide variety of guys.

[slackermillionaire]

Orton is a perfectly fine wrestler, and when in the ring with someone of better skill he's more than capable of having great matches and doing great/interesting things. He's not a guy who can carry others though, and too often he's been put in that position.

 

 

Sums up Orton perfectly and a perfect example of this is his dogshit Raw Match this year vs Kofi. Orton has a similar thing going on as HHH, someone who alot of other wrestlers are high on but the hardcores are not.

[Steenalized]

Orton can have good matches in the right situation. His series with Christian in 2011 was genuinely good. He's had a couple good matches with Daniel Bryan in the last 14 months or so (albeit, as many dull matches as good ones). But other than that, no one has had as much go away heat with me as Randy Orton over the last decade. Terrible promo, usually a boring wrestler, worse character.

 

seconding all the "artificial" comments so hard

 

i said this elsewhere on here but it's funny when i see meltzer say that orton is one of the few in WWE who comes off like a star - to me he comes off as a guy TRYING to come off as a star

 

i could see more appreciation for his matches after he retires, though. he's definitely a guy who's had a lot of non-wrestling strikes against him with smarks, and it would be naive to think that doesn't factor into opinions of him...

I agree so much with the artificial comments and the Meltzer mention. Orton doesn't seem like a superstar. Cena seems like a superstar, obvious. Batista carries himself like a superstar. Orton doesn't.

[El-P]

The Viper bit is one of the all-time fakest, forced-looking wrestling routine I've ever seen. It's hilarious.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think maybe 40% of my Orton hatred derives from the Viper bit.

[tigerpride]

Orton was not dishonorably discharged.

[(BP)]

The Viper mannerisms got really out of control when he turned face around mania 26. I always figured he was sarcastically overdoing it because he hated being babyface, but he's stuck with it.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

The Viper bit is one of the all-time fakest, forced-looking wrestling routine I've ever seen. It's hilarious.

 

Yup.

[BigBadMick]

I loved Orton's 2010-2012. He was super over after he first turned face in 2010 and was getting some monster pops. Crowd was hot for him in the 2010 MITB. Thought 2011 was his best in ring year with great matches almost weekly against a wide variety of guys.

Agree completely. Poor Randy! Gets a lot of abuse but to me he works hard and has periods of really strong work. I remember someone saying it seems like he and WWE are in a loveless marriage but it's not fiscally possible for them to extricate themselves. Sometimes he lets that contempt shine through, because he has impunity. Compared to everyone else threading on eggshells, him and Lesnar make me laugh.

[DMJ]

I think the comparisons with Orton and HHH are always interesting. JBL always says stuff like "If you could build the perfect wrestler in a lab, it would be Randy Orton" and, in the late 90s, I think you could say the same for Triple H (size, look, voice were all "classic" wrestler).

 

But that's almost why I can't say either rank in my personal top 20 or 30 or even 50 list of guys I love. It's not like I inherently like guys with "flaws," but there's something about Ric Flair and Eddie Guerrero not having a size advantage, but still outsmarting their opponents and there's something about Steve Austin's NSFW persona in the Attitude Era that made his promos just that much better than anything Orton has ever done. The Undertaker's gimmick. Savage's insanity. Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels' emotional storytelling. Daniel Bryan's heart. Even John Cena's passion and the way, even when the whole place is booing him, he still wrestles HIS match in HIS babyface persona.

 

These are the intangibles that Orton (and Triple H, in my mind) just don't have. With nothing to hang their hat on, they may be the "perfect" wrestlers, but they're also two of the hardest characters to care about that have ever been in the main event.

[SomethingSavage]

Perfectly average, if anything. He can hit all the right notes, but every pitch is plateaued. He doesn't tip the scales on ANYTHING in particular, and I think that's where you were headed with your mentions of guys like Savage, Austin, Bryan, Bret, Shawn, etc. They all possess something MORE in one category or another. Where they might fall short on one end, they'll tip the scale in the other direction with something else.

 

And to me, that's a sure sign of the greats. You've got to have one outstanding quality that is so surefire strong that it'll get you over, carry you onward, and keep you hot. Whether it's the talk, the walk, or just the attitude in between. There's got to be something that resonates and captivates people. You've got to command a crowd and demand attention with SOME aspect at some point.

 

Orton falls a little short on that end, in my eyes. I got to see him live when he was REALLY over, fresh off the return with the tatted sleeves, with Legacy just kicking off and the whole "Viper" gimmick revving up. To me, it felt like the guy was getting nuclear over heading into WM25 or so. And even then, there was this kind of disconnect. There were pockets of people that adored him, but it never approached near the same levels as the stars you mentioned. Hell, I don't think he's even caught on as big as Batista did there for awhile back in 2005. And even that's a level lower on the pecking order than most.

 

Like I said, I actually like Orton a lot more than most. Or at least that's the impression I get. But I really think his character just suffers from a lot of misplacement. His work is better between the ropes when he's a babyface, yet his character is more appealing as a heel. He's so believable as this obnoxious, entitled, insufferable douche. But here he's actually mellowed out A LOT in real life. He seems like a pretty relaxed, chilled guy nowadays.

 

I just think he'd be more "over" with fans if they got to peek behind the script a bit with guys like Randy. He'd probably stand a better chance of connecting with the audience through sit-down, UFC-style buildup and interviews. He just doesn't have the presence or showmanship to do it out there with a live mic and a stage. And even THAT in itself is odd, since he's got the superstar look & then some. The charm just doesn't carry over to anything tangible in his personality. Like his ring work/character, there's a broken link in the chain. It's just odd.

[C.S.]

Orton can have good matches in the right situation. His series with Christian in 2011 was genuinely good.

 

They were good wrestling matches, yes, but they completely infuriated most of the fanbase.

 

Christian, a crowd favorite, FINALLY wins the World Title - only to lose it two days later to Super Orton. Then Christian gets turned into a chickenshit bitch heel, gets buried by his own "best friend" Edge, and loses to Orton in every rematch. When he eventually regained the title, it was by DQ or something equally as ridiculous, and even that lasted only a month or so before Super Orton "saved the day" again.

 

Garbage booking like that is precisely why so many people resent and are sick of Orton today.

[SomethingSavage]

 

I forgot about those jumping jacks he'd do. Tremendous. Gotta keep that heart rate up.

 

Didn't he even bust out a cartwheel during the last babyface run?

 

Wasn't it like...he RKO'd Mark Henry, then jumped high into the air, did the splits and touched his toes, and then double fist-pumped? It was one of the most out of character things I've ever seen and it was just hysterical.

 

 

Better yet! I went back and watched some of his feud with Christian circa 2011, and he's actually doing this stuff mid-match a lot of times. Christ almighty. It's awkward, and yes. It's awesome.

 

During spots where Christian ran the ropes & Orton would leap-frog over him, he'd literally do what Booker referred to as, "da toe touch." Occasionally and alternatively called, "touchin' dem toes." Nifty.

 

Just to keep things in perspective, this was also the time they were playing up the "anger issues" and "disorder" of Orton again - only as a fan favorite now. He'd go into a fit of rage before teasing the Punt O' Doom or the RKO, and he'd make these ridiculous funny faces. For those that haven't seen it, I'd recommend seeking it out. Randy would warp his face around to look like a cross between Bushwhacker Luke and a bulldog chewing on a mad wasp.

 

Bizarre behavior for your lead babyface.

[Coffey]

Randy Orton, to me, is like a WWE version of someone that would have came out of the WCW Power Plant & been slapped in the Natural Born Thrillers. He's just bland & unexciting.

 

I really like that he uses the Diamond Cutter as a finish but what worked for Diamond Dallas Page seems forced for Randy Orton. Namely the "out of nowhere" spots. For DDP, it worked because Page was pretty much just always face-in-peril, getting beat down, having taped ribs...but never giving up. As a fan, you never gave up on Page either because you knew, no matter how bad he was beaten up or injured, or how many times the nWo would beat him with a crutch, at anytime he could hit a Diamond Cutter & it was over.

 

You don't really get that with Orton. He's never really vulnerable, even when he's a babyface. You never feel sympathy for him. You don't think, whether he's heel or face, that he has an attitude where he won't just quit or lose.

 

A lot of it is a stigma that has carried over from his past characters that he's played. He's switch from heel to face & back again about a dozen times. He used to be cocky, then crazy, then cocky & crazy... There's no reason to buy into him. He's just another dude that seems to have been around forever now, that might be heel or might be face but it doesn't matter. Just like Kane, Big Show, Alberto Del Rio or even Christian, since he was mentioned. We've seen all that they are ever going to do. It would take a completely overhaul & repackage, like Isaac Yankem into Kane or Leo Krueger into Adam Rose at this point to make them feel different at all.

 

Randy Orton is going to cut the same promos, work the same match & play the same character that he always has.

[Badlittlekitten]

 

Randy Orton is going to cut the same promos, work the same match & play the same character that he always has.

 

And the scary thing is that we've likely got another ten years of this!

 

I don't dislike Orton, he's a decent worker and his goofy awkwardness sometimes has it's charm. He occasionally does the odd thing that I find amusing, like that random Rick Rude promo he cut during a Smackdown match a while back, and he's nowhere near as unwanted a presence as Alberto Del Rio at this point. But there's not much interesting left to do with him, at least not as a top singles act. The most I've ever enjoyed Orton may have been that brief period last year when him and Sheamus were a fun blowjob tag team. I'd love to see them get back together actually. Two less stale acts.