anarchistxx Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Smarkschoice results since we;ve been discussing it: Loss's note: I edited this out. Next post has an explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Ah man, I was hoping not to post that so people wouldn't be subconsciously influenced by the previous ranking. I'm sorry, but I edited it out. It's not that it is a big secret, but at least we aren't making it so easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Think the amount of Joshi will decline considerably, SC was the board for that. I hope it gets a fair shake, and I say that as someone who wouldn't have Joshi workers as high this time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 No worries, can see why everyone would want to start from a clean slate. Especially since that 2006 list was almost the result of a decade of consensus and debate, with people at the time complaining that voters were not looking outside the 'acceptable' picks enough. Now the conversation has changed so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Promos are a troubling gauge for me because of the language barrior. Someone like Flair and Kobashi are pretty even work wise for me on the surface but since I dont speak Japanese and think Flair is great at promos, he would have to be ahead correct? Seems like an unfair mark against foreign stars as if that is part of the equation my top 10 would be all US guys. The thing is though, I'd want to include guys like Bruno Sammartino and possibly even a Dusty Rhodes or someone like that on my list, and what made those guys great does not strictly come down to "work". I think if people are going to include someone like Riki Choshu on their list, at least a part of it would be his undoubted charisma and aura, the way he carried himself. So does that mean that it's "fair" to take those aspects of Choshu into consideration? What I'm saying is that making a rule like this puts a guy like him at an advantage because we're sort of taking his non-work aspects into consideration while crippling the main strengths of a guy like Dusty. I don't think charisma and presence are non-work aspects. A charismatic wrestler is more compelling and interesting in the ring. It's not something I think is terribly distant from, say, "execution." Charisma and presence is directly tied to ring-work in a way that promos are not. This is something a guy like Dusty can benefit from, too. Surely how awesome a big run of elbow-based offense from Dusty can be has a lot to do with his charisma and personality, as totally separate from his promos. Anyone can do wild taunts and follow it up with an elbow to the head, not everyone will make it interesting. I'd feel pretty strongly that promos and stuff like that shouldn't be included in the criteria, because in that case we're talking about a list that measures something TOTALLY different than the 2006 list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 The most underrated Japanese wrestler...ever? More later in the relevant section Just for giggles, what is his first name because all I'm finding is Death Match clips including syringes getting jammed into guys' cheeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moazzam23 Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Kantaro. He's mostly in tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Dusty is excellent at controlling crowds through his ring work. Also, can I only watch stuff from japan that people actively think I will like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I was echoing Matt's thoughts about 2002 on my journey through 2000s Japan. Getting through a lot of those NOAH main event matches was a chore. And a lot of KENTA, Marufuji, Kojima, Nagata, etc. matches....it got to feel a bit like forcing myself to watch things at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I don't see how anyone's going to force you to watch someone you don't want to, but if there's a pimping thread with a lot of activity and you've never seen that wrestler then you should probably check out a few of their matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 May have missed it but would the pool consist mostly just PWO posters or is this just to see the interest from the hub of the project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 May have missed it but would the pool consist mostly just PWO posters or is this just to see the interest from the hub of the project? It was a generic, is there anyone interested in this type of question. It's happening now, so hopefully the people who have shown interest will participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'm conflicted. I always want to have as wide a scope as possible. However, I also think for a project of this magnitude, giving at least a cursory look at workers and countries you don't normally watch should be expected. For myself, I already know WOS and 80s joshi are targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'll watch any joshi Chad thinks I should watch. You do the legwork. I trust your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I am just going to list 100 people I really enjoy watching. I don't know why people make this so difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I am just going to list 100 people I really enjoy watching. I don't know why people make this so difficult. I don't think you're supposed to admit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'm conflicted. I always want to have as wide a scope as possible. However, I also think for a project of this magnitude, giving at least a cursory look at workers and countries you don't normally watch should be expected. For myself, I already know WOS and 80s joshi are targets. My goal is to watch a bit of everyone nominated. We'll see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 There are probably a few great wrestlers that I don't necessarily love watching, but their greatness is really hard to deny. The biggest example is Manami Toyota. She'll end up somewhere on my list. There are also plenty of wrestlers that I love watching that I'd never even think about voting for, Diamond Dallas Page being the most notable example. Best and favorite aren't the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 There are probably a few great wrestlers that I don't necessarily love watching, but their greatness is really hard to deny. The biggest example is Manami Toyota. She'll end up somewhere on my list. There are also plenty of wrestlers that I love watching that I'd never even think about voting for, Diamond Dallas Page being the most notable example. Best and favorite aren't the same thing. If you love watching DDP wrestle, but don't enjoy Toyota, or at least enjoy DDP more, why would you rank her over him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Because Manami Toyota is a far better worker than DDP with a far more prolific career. Just because she has style quirks that I personally don't love doesn't mean she wasn't great at what she did. Wrestling means more than just what I think of it. I could make a list based entirely on my personal biases, but I'd rather make a list where I try to be fair, realizing my personal biases will creep in. Top 100 Wrestlers I Enjoy Watching would look far different than Here's Who I Think Are The 100 Greatest Workers Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Because Manami Toyota is a far better worker than DDP with a far more prolific career. Just because she has style quirks that I personally don't love doesn't mean she wasn't great at what she did. Wrestling means more than just what I think of it. Don't you end up running the risk of making a list of who people think are the best ever, as opposed to making a list of who you actually think is better? I mean, it's wrestling......it's not the same as saying your favourite tennis player to watch is Andy Roddick, but Roger Federer is obviously the better player. If the point of pro wrestling is to enjoy what you're watching, isn't the wrestler you enjoy watching more the better wrestler, even if only to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Not really. It's a balancing act. I'm not really out to capture general consensus as much as I am to be as fair as possible. And I'm not solipsistic enough to think all wrestling is created just for me and my enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 One thing we could do, and I'm not saying we should do. Maybe we could break down it into different categories like I vote in Joshi, or I vote in the mexico, or I vote in the 80 U.s category. With this it wouldn't force people to watch what they don't want to watch. Getting Harrington would be a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I feel it becomes a bit of a different project when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 If you're going to participate in a project of this scope you should be prepared to do some leg work. If it's just a 100 workers we like, we can submit the ballots this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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