Fit Finlay

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[tim]

I haven't seen much of his pre-WWE work but just on that alone he's a top 50 lock for me, no doubt. Awesome to watch every second he was in the ring. Love, love, love his style.

[Venegas]

Best wrestler in the world in 2006, which is saying a lot because Bryan Danielson was incredible that year. Master of detail, stiff as fuck, and an awesome mat worker. His indie run provided my 2011 and 2012 MOTYs; both vs Sami Callihan in EVOLVE. I think his post-comeback run was much better than his pre-comeback run , but even then he had awesome matches with Regal on PPV and Benoit on Worldwide/Nitro. I'll need to go back and watch more WoS stuff before I put my finger on where he'll land but chances are he'll be up there for sure.

[Timbo Slice]

Maybe the most fungible wrestler in this whole thing. He works whatever style is needed and is great regardless. The Irish Swiss Army Knife. Truly one of the all-time greats. Easy Top 50, probably 25.

[Loss]

Just to balance this out with some criticism, has Finlay ever gotten his style over in a meaningful way? Are there any super heated Finlay matches?

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm not sure if it counts as meaningful, but his act with Princess Paula was extremely over in the waning days of wrestling on British television even if I personally dislike it compared to his Riot Squad days.

[Loss]

I'm not even sure what I mean by "meaningful", but thanks for the example.

 

What about stateside? I enjoy lots of his matches too, but I think a guy who mostly has matches with dead crowds is something that has to work against him.

[Venegas]

Just to balance this out with some criticism, has Finlay ever gotten his style over in a meaningful way? Are there any super heated Finlay matches?

I recall the match vs Matt Hardy in 2007 having a hot crowd, but Matt's a terrific baby face. I get what you mean, though, and it could very well knock him down a few spots when we take a look a the 'charisma' factor when narrowing it down, and I say that as someone who doesn't really pay attention to crowd reactions during a match more often than not.

[goodhelmet]

Actually some of Finlay's most heated matches are his below average matches we have on Handheld from Austria. The crowd would go nuts for him but the matches weren't always up to snuff.

[Shining Wiz]

I can't think of a bad Finlay match, or at least not one that wouldn't have been worse without him.

 

Just on the basis of his WCW and WWE runs I'd consider him based on talent if not great matches.....I'm looking forward to digging into his WOS and other European work.

[BillThompson]

Based on his WCW work Finlay won't make my list. I need to see his WWE/indie runs that have gotten a lot of pub, because I love Finaly's aggressively stiff style.

[Spunk]

I'm not even sure what I mean by "meaningful", but thanks for the example.

 

What about stateside? I enjoy lots of his matches too, but I think a guy who mostly has matches with dead crowds is something that has to work against him.

I think that is, in part, a matter of how he was booked. Finlay was always kind of a utility guy when he had his chance in bigger promotions. His look, build, etc. weren't going to get over huge with American audiences, but he was useful in getting solid matches out of everyone else and putting them over to crowds.

[goc]

I'm not even sure what I mean by "meaningful", but thanks for the example.

 

What about stateside? I enjoy lots of his matches too, but I think a guy who mostly has matches with dead crowds is something that has to work against him.

He had a feud with Rey that was probably his highest profile feud in WWE. They had some great matches on Smackdown and I think even had a PPV match or two.

[Jimmy Redman]

I think he only had the one World Title match in WWE - a four-way at No Mercy 2006 with Booker, Lashley and Batista.

 

He was mixing it up near the main event around that time so he probably had a few TV main events and stuff in late 2006. He also had a run with the US Title. A Cena TV match. The JBL Mania match. A couple MITB matches. That's about it as far as anything in a featured position.

[anarchistxx]

To put forward a fairly contrary opinion, I find Finlay really boring. The snugness and realism and grittiness is all pretty cool, but he has rarely if ever got me excited in a match or really involved where I'm losing my shit instead of just sort of sitting back and admiring it. Was bemused when people were calling him the best wrestler in the world circa 2006.

[broccoman]

A good bit of his World of Sport stuff is on Youtube, and it's pretty entertaining.

 

You might find the WoS stuff less boring if you want less gritty.

 

Finlay's old man WWE run was very good as well.

[concrete1992]

His series with Callihan is one of my favorite indie related things in the past 5 years. Clearly that isn't where a case begins but more an added cherry to anyone thinking of voting for him. Best Callihan matches whose had his own share of quality matches, though not really nomination worthy as an individual.

[ohtani's jacket]

If I were making a list this guy would have slid right off.

[Parties]

If I were making a list this guy would have slid right off.

 

This speaks to something I've been thinking about certain candidates recently (Piper was the example that brought it to mind) where there are select guys who I've seen have many awesome matches, but won't make my list because I've seen them suck too often throughout their career. Like Piper was often thrilling, yet he's also a guy where on any given day you didn't know what you were gonna get out of him, and that this seemed to be true everywhere he went.

 

OJ: were there matches/performances that made you think less of Finlay, or was it just that there are so many more folks you prefer to him?

[ohtani's jacket]

Finlay in the early 80s was a super worker on par with anyone you care to name in the UK. He was even part of a tremendous tag team with Skull Murphy and British wrestling doesn't do tag wrestling well. When Paula got her mittens on him, he made a pile of money working for Wanz, Williams, Crabtree and Dixon, but his matches became shorter, screwier, and full of shtick. And the heavier he became, the worse his wrestling got. He was tremendous as a mid-heavyweight, but pain sufferingly boring as a heavyweight. There is a good ten year period from 1986 until he shows up in WCW in 1996 where he's as frustrating as Rocco, another great wrestler who was shtick mad. Ten years is a long time to remain frustrating. That's a fair whack of his prime. I doubt many people will care as they're more familiar with his American work, and can probably tolerate or even enjoy his earlier stuff, but having seen how good he was before he hooked up with Paula, to me it's like when a favourite band stops putting out albums worth listening to. My current frustration is with his Reslo work, but his ITV stuff after wrestling became a stand alone show is just as bad.

[El-P]

May I ask, who is Paula ?

 

As far as being boring, I remember not being impressed at all by his New Japan when he toured for the Super Junior in 93 or so.

[ohtani's jacket]

Paula was his first wife, a British female wrestler who became his manager "Princess Paula" up until they split in the early 90s. They had this act going where Paula would demand the MC introduce her as the "beautiful, vivacious Princess Paula" or something similar. Finlay wouldn't begin wrestling until he'd gotten a kiss from her and if he lost a fall she'd tear strips off him. She'd interfere in his bouts and they'd have miscommunication spots; all of which was commonplace in US wrestling but like nothing the UK had ever seen. Since Joint Promotions didn't promote women's wrestling, Paula was essentially the first woman to appear on ITV as a performer. Together they got tremendous heat, but the quality of Finlay's work took a nosedive. He went from feuding with guys like Marty Jones to working squash matches and main eventing against Daddy.

 

His NJPW stuff is another dull patch. I wonder if people who's first introduction to Finlay was the Regal feud realise how atypical that was of Finlay at the time.

[Jetlag]

I'm neutral to the Finlay late WoS and NJPW stuff. I really like his work in germany and austria which sets the tone for the Regal feud. There is a match against Schumann from the EWF french TV show that is really stiff and completely outstanding from anything else on that show. Some of his stuff there is fairly junior-ish, so I guess people here won't like it as much, but I also like him vs. 2 Cold Scorpio, vs. Liger and vs. El Samurai in NJPW.

[El-P]

Paula was his first wife, a British female wrestler who became his manager "Princess Paula" up until they split in the early 90s. They had this act going where Paula would demand the MC introduce her as the "beautiful, vivacious Princess Paula" or something similar. Finlay wouldn't begin wrestling until he'd gotten a kiss from her and if he lost a fall she'd tear strips off him. She'd interfere in his bouts and they'd have miscommunication spots; all of which was commonplace in US wrestling but like nothing the UK had ever seen. Since Joint Promotions didn't promote women's wrestling, Paula was essentially the first woman to appear on ITV as a performer. Together they got tremendous heat, but the quality of Finlay's work took a nosedive. He went from feuding with guys like Marty Jones to working squash matches and main eventing against Daddy.

 

His NJPW stuff is another dull patch. I wonder if people who's first introduction to Finlay was the Regal feud realise how atypical that was of Finlay at the time.

 

Interesting. I had seen Finlay in NJ before WCW I think, I guess on Eurosport. But I didn't realize Finlay's WCW work was atypical. And really, although I think he's tremendous as a mechanic, he's lacking something to me, and his WWE work just doesn't cut it in term of great performances either. Don't get me wrong, I like him a lot. But I wonder if he's not in the same bag with DiBiase to me.

[Coffey]

Can anyone provide a list of Finlay matches to seek out on the WWE Network? I want to re-watch some of his stuff but there's not a lot being pimped in this thread, at least not specifically named.