JerryvonKramer Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Have started to review Angle matches here. Turns out 13 years is a long time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 If you are going to watch a bunch of early 2000s Kurt Angle then you can't NOT watch the match with Rey from Summerslam 2002. I like Kurt from this time period and I think this might be his best singles match. I thought the Benoit matches around 2003 is when he started to become more like the current Angle and less like the early version. I have a theory that the Benoit matches really ended Angle's career (in terms of being good). Those matches were so crazy and awful and got such praise that he went even more and more into that style. Agreed. The reaction to the Rumble match ruined him as a worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think Angle was starting to turn it around when he was traded to ECW right before his release. He was booked as a "serious shooter" and it led to a lot of his issues being minimized because the structure of the matches necessitated it. I remember him having a good match with Orton at One Night Stand 06 during this time. I'll have to give it another watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I remember him having a good match with Orton at One Night Stand 06 during this time. I'll have to give it another watch. I actually almost went into an WWECW watch a few weeks ago, beginning with this show. The Angle vs Orton match was so everything I hate about mid-00's modern WWE style, with Orton being a fucking black hole of dullness and boredom already and Angle being all about stupid anklelock reversals and shitty suplexes, that I stopped my WWECW watch right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Haha. El-P, a WWECW thread in the vein of your WCW thread would rule (I'd never suggest TNA. That'd be mean.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've been contemplating doing WWECW for a while, but failed at this latest attempt. I tried TNA years ago, but it was just too much. I have to be very selective at this point. (not enough time to waste) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 El-P, Angle is gone right away and Orton is never there so don't let that sway you. It's got train wreck appeal for the first year or so, but gets pretty good in 2008 and REALLY good in 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I've been contemplating doing WWECW for a while, but failed at this latest attempt. I tried TNA years ago, but it was just too much. I have to be very selective at this point. (not enough time to waste) Just start at the point when Colin Delaney shows up Personally I loved WWECW from around mid 2007 until they killed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 His match with Steve Austin at Summerslam might be my favorite of all time. Mostly Austin being a vicious, nasty, paranoid heel with some of the best punches in WWE history, and then bumping all over the place for suplexes outside the ring and getting more and more desperate and livid as the match went on...but Angle was still excellent as the fired up, passionate babyface bleeding a gusher and carrying the fight against a lowlife, cheating bastard. One of the only matches where a screwy finish was the perfect was for it to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I remember him having a good match with Orton at One Night Stand 06 during this time. I'll have to give it another watch. I actually almost went into an WWECW watch a few weeks ago, beginning with this show. The Angle vs Orton match was so everything I hate about mid-00's modern WWE style, with Orton being a fucking black hole of dullness and boredom already and Angle being all about stupid anklelock reversals and shitty suplexes, that I stopped my WWECW watch right there. Well, and I'm at this point where Angle has actually been the best worker on WWECW TV thus far. Well, maybe not, I'd probably say Sabu has been, but I certainly warmed up a lot on Angle just by the virtue of him delivering those rare worthwhile wrestling moment on this awful TV show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 He had good chemistry with Sabu. I'm curious what you'll think of him when you get there with the TNA project. From what I've seen they nurtured his worst instincts. He and Styles in particular were a bad influence on each other with finisher reversals/spamming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I actually enjoyed Angle as the roid raged/hyper athlete character in ECW at the time. No clue how I would like it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Angle is a Top 20 guy for me, first and foremost. Absolutely incredible wrestler when he's at his best. He does everything I want in a wrestler. Great seller, great bumper, hot finishing stretches, great offense, great charisma - there are few more wrestlers I enjoy more than Angle. That being said, he has two things really working against him for me. 1) I can't pinpoint when Angle started turning in great performances (I like a lot of his work in 2000, nothing specific is coming to mind right now), but he's on a three year run of being abysmal. I voted him Most Overrated in the WON Awards last year because there is nothing I hate more than crippled, overly-sweaty Kurt Angle wrestling. There's a part of me that wants to look at his 2014-2016 run in the same light that as I do post-cancer Kobashi because Angle is not a healthy human, but he was being pushed so hard by TNA that I have to put some of the fault on Angle. He didn't change his style. He tried to work like 2002 Kurt Angle and he's a far cry from what he once was. 2) 2006, roided up, batshit insane Angle is one of my favorite years for any wrestler ever. It's terrifying in hindsight because he probably should've died and BTS touched on that a few weeks ago, but in-ring, Angle did so many great things that year. His No Way Out 2006 match with Undertaker is actually one of my favorite WWE matches ever. I think both guys are excellent in that. He spends time working with Rey and Orton and both Rey and Angle were just on other levels in 2006. They did some insanely great things on Smackdown that year. Kurt in ECW wasn't too much fun, though, and then when he went to TNA, he stopped that hyperfocused, MMA-inspired gimmick and that sucks. I really wish we would've seen more of Kurt working like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Serious question... can you give some examples of Angle being a great seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Serious question... can you give some examples of Angle being a great seller? I would point to the first two Joe matches and their Lockdown 2008 match. Not the point, but I always loved the way he bumped for Rey, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not to be overblown, but the idea that Angle is probably going rate kind of hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 My issue with Angle isn't OMGHE'SAWFUL as much as it is that I don't see what separates him from someone like 1990 Scott Steiner, who no one passes off as a complete performer even if it was lots of fun watching him suplex guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not to be overblown, but the idea that Angle is probably going rate kind of hurts. Do you think he will? I'm not sure. He'll likely be left off a lot of ballots completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sort of think TNA should have given Kurt Angle a five year title reign. He is easily the biggest name and most believable ace on their roster. Would have added something different to the product to have such a long title reign, title matches would have meant so much more, and it would have anchored the product instead of the ridiculous mess it is. In kayfabe terms Kurt Angle could easily be booked as an old school champion who nobody can beat. Placed him on my list, merely because I enjoyed watching him so much from 2000 - 2005 and he was in so many of my favorite matches of all time until I started to get into AJPW and joshi and the rest. Hate to think how those matches stand up now, given the savaging he gets around these parts. Haven't properly seen him work since 2007 either so no clue how his TNA run has destroyed his legacy. I'll just cherish the memories of marking out like a motherfucker to Angle/Benoit and Angle/Shawn and Angle/Lesnar. The match with Steve Austin at Summerslam 2001 might still be my favorite match of all time as well - the character work in that is perfect, the heat is off the charts, it is wonderfully structured and built, the blood adds so much to it, and Austin throws some of the best punches ever seen in WWE. Just a beautiful match, and probably the highlight of WWE main event style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Serious question... can you give some examples of Angle being a great seller? I think the only really good one is vs Austin. He is a great bumper though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Saw someone on twitter arguing about Angle over Lawler because Angle had more "variety" but I really don't see that. Certainly not in his TNA work where from the little I have seen I really haven't seen him work differently when he's a face or a heel. Then there is his insistence that everyone he wrestles from Jay Lethal & Frankie Kazarian midcard types to Sting & AJ Styles main eventers get to have an "epic" match with him including way too many finisher kickouts and Ankle Lock reversals. There was a match with AJ Styles during the attempt at having a second Monday Night War that I thought went so far in that direction that it was to the point of parody in that it was just a finisher, kickout, lay around, get back up and have the other guy hit his finisher just to wash rinse and repeat for about 3-4 minutes. Angle is not a guy I would associate with the word variety at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Well, it's variety because he could have the exact same idiotic match with so many different wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Serious question... can you give some examples of Angle being a great seller? I would point to the first two Joe matches and their Lockdown 2008 match. Not the point, but I always loved the way he bumped for Rey, also. And the 2001 Summerslam match with Austin. That's actually the best example of him being a great seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Angle has really disappointed me in my revisits to 00s stuff and I was a huge Angle fan back them. It's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 This goes back to my "It's not wrestling that's changed; it's us." argument. Except for I think the circle keeps repeating itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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