Boss Rock Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Yeah I'd put the failure to build new stars squarely on Gedo. It's really quite something that your top star is leaving and you have done next to nothing with this recent crop of new wrestlers. Yota Tsuji has looked to have all the potential in the world to be the next ace and yet guys like Hikuleo are advancing in the G1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 18 hours ago, WingedEagle said: I also preferred today's Dragon vs. ZSJ to WrestleDream by a hair, but we're really splitting hairs. I found today's technique and mat work, along with the late escalation superior, but just barely. However -- United Empire vs. BC War Dogs was the most unexpectedly great all time classic and MOTY frontrunner I've seen in ages. An incredibly violent and dramatic war that didn't feel nearly as long as it did. The raw violence and backyard cage were comparable to ROH/CZW Cage of Death while the Empire entrances called back to the best babyface fires from past Wargames. Its been a busy day so I have no clue what -- if any -- early consensus is on this one, but it absolutely rocked my world. Tremendous work and bloodshed from all. I was mixed on it. It had the unhinged violence/bumping you want from a match like that, and it certainly told a story. But I did feel the length. There were stretches when it lost any dramatic tension for me, in part, to be fair, because I feel zero attachment to most of the participants. The comparison to Cage of Death is apt, and I have to think that was the model these guys had in mind, but it didn't get all the way there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Okada is being booked for the last few dates as a freelancer. He said this himself. I imagine he has some control over how he is being booked. It's evident he has a massive ego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Putting someone over Okada with such short notice and no story would be weird anyway. I don't think it would feel like some big torch passing thing at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Okada's final two matches have been announced for New Beginnings in Sapporo Night 1. February 23. Chaos (Kazuchika Okada, Hirooki Goto, Yoshi-Hashi, Tomohiro Iishi & Yoh) vs United Empire (Jeff Cobb, Great O-Khan, Henare, Akira & Newman) Night 2. February 24 Chaos (Kazuchika Okada, Tomohiro Iishi, Hirooki Goto & Yoshi-Hashi) & Hiroshi Tanahashi vs United Empire (Jeff Cobb, Great O-Khan, Henare & Akira) and Matt Riddle. Night 2 will also see Tama Tonga's final match as he teams with Tanga Loa against Hikuleo and El Phantasmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 I don't know about him having an ego (although I'd argue he'd be justified in having one considering what he's done for the company), it's sort of become a custom for a top guy leaving New Japan to be part of an angle putting over the folks positioned to take their place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Meltzer is reporting Rocky Romero is now part of AEW's front office. Tony Khan raided the fuck out of New Japan and people are just ok with it, oh how times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 TK raided pretty much the entire non WWE industry but it is hard to say that has been a negative for the talent or industry as a whole. NJ seems to be a mess right now, Rocky has been with them for probably 20 years as a talent and liaison, so if they can't keep him (while also losing Okada and Ospreay and the president change), things do not bode well for the next 5-10 years of NJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Jmare007 said: Tony Khan raided the fuck out of New Japan and people are just ok with it, oh how times have changed. That's not a totally accurate view of what is actually happening though. If AEW did not exist, WWE would have gotten White, Ospreay and Okada. They wanted all of them. TK did get them, and that's a feather in his cap. Meanwhile, WWE is getting Giulia, and has gotten Kairi Sane back. The reality is that since the business has become more global, and has since WWE decided in the mid 10's that NJPW was their rival, it's much easier for both foreign and native talent to get bigger contracts in US promotions now. It really started when Nakamura left (and KENTA before him, but he really was nothing comparable in term of star power). And it probably won't get any better. Add in that the joshi puroresu scene will most probably be hurt by Stardom spitting into two rival companies. So yeah. Tough times coming ahead. Romero has been very instrumental in getting the Forbidden Door opened, as he has probably in AEW working alongside CMLL (dunno how Konnan feels about that one), he's certainly an excellent catch in term of office people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Romero's primary role in the office was as a foreign talent liaison, and as we've previously noted, that's not really an area New Japan can currently compete in. So it's not that big a loss substantively although it obviously can't help in the perception game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 Per Meltzer, Romero is still working for NJPW which is kinda interesting if you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 I actually thought about that since the news was "He got an office job in AEW" but not "He's leaving NJPW". Romero has a fascinating career arc. But really Rocky. You know what I want, what I really really want. Since he's also working in MLW. Get Salina de la Renta in AEW. A luchador invasion led by Salina would be so perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 I would say the AEW/NJPW partnership has been kinda predatory, tbh, but given it doesn’t seem like NJPW would be doing much better without it, I wouldn’t say that that statement has much real meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, El-P said: That's not a totally accurate view of what is actually happening though. If AEW did not exist, WWE would have gotten White, Ospreay and Okada. They wanted all of them. TK did get them, and that's a feather in his cap. That's where I'm going at. If WWE had gotten them there would be much more talk about it, but since Tony is the one signing them, it's business as usual. I find that pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Embrodak said: I would say the AEW/NJPW partnership has been kinda predatory, tbh, but given it doesn’t seem like NJPW would be doing much better without it, I wouldn’t say that that statement has much real meaning. It's been more or less very one-sided up until recently, but the fact that AEW keeps signing away talent doesn't help matters much. I know people will use the WWE argument and say that WWE would have signed them anyway, but I don't think that's true. The WWE rumors have been mostly used as a sideshow I think, especially to avoid the appearance of poaching. Of course, WWE would be interested in Ospreay, Okada, White, etc if they heard they were free agents, but they were never really interested in WWE and always were heading to AEW I think. AEW hoarding talent like this is not good for the business, especially if NJPW and maybe even CMLL end up becoming "feeder" promotions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 My counterpoint to this: AEW doesn’t have the developmental that WWE or even NJPW has, and so they are happier to grab talent this way (akin to a baseball team not having a good minor league system and only going after Major League free agents). But they should invest in an actual non-ROH developmental pipeline so they can bring folks along, but I feel Tony likes the idea of bringing in fringe talent (Keith, Mack, etc.) and giving them spots as enhancement talent to see if they’re worth more TV time. NJPW’s problems are more based on them not trusting younger talent and CMLL’s has always been monetary, so I’d be more focused on them figuring those issues out before calling AEW predatory in their hirings. We’d be singing different tunes if the last WK truly showcased the new Three Musketeers in a way that made them truly look like the future of the promotion, and I’d argue the CMLL exposure with the BCC has been way more helpful than not, especially once they go to Mexico for the other end of the agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Jmare007 said: That's where I'm going at. If WWE had gotten them there would be much more talk about it, but since Tony is the one signing them, it's business as usual. I find that pretty interesting. THIS. Look, good for everyone if this is a beneficial move for Rocky Romero in the process but how can we chastize WWE for doing it from 2014 to 2019 but praise TK for doing it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 I would suppose the difference is WWE was quite open about their goal being to squash every other company in the world and TK is always talking about pro wrestling being one big happy family. As stated, NJ's problems have been due to their inability to trust the younger generation, if they had been pushing those guys properly it could have softened the blow of losing White/Ospreay/Okada a little. It's not TK's fault that Gedo has been booking on a treadmill for years now. CMLL will be fine as well, the Lutteroth family owns all the buildings they run and the promotion basically runs itself and the only thing that would cause trouble is if the family suddenly decided they didn't want to run a wrestling company anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, sek69 said: I would suppose the difference is WWE was quite open about their goal being to squash every other company in the world and TK is always talking about pro wrestling being one big happy family. As stated, NJ's problems have been due to their inability to trust the younger generation, if they had been pushing those guys properly it could have softened the blow of losing White/Ospreay/Okada a little. It's not TK's fault that Gedo has been booking on a treadmill for years now. CMLL will be fine as well, the Lutteroth family owns all the buildings they run and the promotion basically runs itself and the only thing that would cause trouble is if the family suddenly decided they didn't want to run a wrestling company anymore. We gotta stop being this naive. TK is the same guy that was celebrating Rossy Ogawa getting fired because he didn't play ball with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control21 Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Jmare007 said: We gotta stop being this naive. TK is the same guy that was celebrating Rossy Ogawa getting fired because he didn't play ball with him. Yeah, TK is happy about wrestling being one big family....as long as it takes place under his roof. TK is a billionaire, and billionaires rarely do things from the bottom of their hearts. It's just the way the system works for them. I'm not saying TK is VKM 2.0 but he looks after himself, no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, Jmare007 said: We gotta stop being this naive. TK is the same guy that was celebrating Rossy Ogawa getting fired because he didn't play ball with him. TK coming off much nicer than Vince goes a long way to explain why he doesn't get the reaction to the things AEW does that other promotions would. Every wrestling promoter (or at least the ones worth a damn) looks after themselves first, but there's something to be said for not acting cartoonishly evil at every opportunity that makes people give him the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 On 2/12/2024 at 12:03 PM, NintendoLogic said: Does Okada really have an outsized ego? The fact that he stuck around to fulfill his advertised dates after his contract expired would suggest otherwise. And his big wins this year were against Danielson (outsider), Ospreay (also on the way out), and Tanahashi (can barely walk these days), so it's not like he was putting himself over at the expense of the company's future. You just gotta look at the Kaito rivalry, which would have been awesome... If it had a payoff. But It didn't, it was just Okada burying him and then refusing to work with him again. That was seriously Triple H stuff. He also suspiciously wasn't put on the same G1 block than the younger guys, despite the Kaito stuff and Shota also having some beef with him previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 On 2/13/2024 at 12:31 PM, El-P said: But really Rocky. You know what I want, what I really really want. Since he's also working in MLW. Get Salina de la Renta in AEW. A luchador invasion led by Salina would be so perfect. Dario Cuerto too, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 Bryan/ZSJ 2 ruled. Okada vs Tana 37 did not. God damn does Tana look like shit. But imagine if somehow he had a 2001 Mutoh resurgence after looking completely washed and broken down for years. Wanted to give the cage match a chance, but I just have zero interest in any of the BC/War Dogs guys or the UE outside of Ospreay and Aussie Open dudes who I don't think are even in the group now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Stump Puller Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 11 minutes ago, strobogo said: Bryan/ZSJ 2 ruled. Okada vs Tana 37 did not. God damn does Tana look like shit. But imagine if somehow he had a 2001 Mutoh resurgence after looking completely washed and broken down for years. I think the issue is that 2001 Mutoh was 39 when he did his incredible reinvention. Not that crazy when you think of AJ having his huge WWE run in his 40's, still in a reasonable area where most guys can still go, especially guys who were as freakishly athletic like Muto was. Tana, by comparison, is 47. A lot older and most definitely a lot more banged up by comparison given he's mostly not had any major surgeries. I'd like to believe otherwise, but he just doesn't have it in him anymore nor the real savvy like his mentor to mix things up. Tana's been the same worker for the last 20 years more or less, just slower with time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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