Current New Japan

[C.S.]

Question: Has the infection of ROH talent to NJPW cheapened the prestige of the NJPW brand for you? When I first subbed to NJPW World and saw all of these terrible gaijin indy 'rasslers, it definitely took away the luster a little bit for me.

Even though NJPW and ROH are now co-headlining MSG next year, the ROH association still feels beneath NJPW IMO.

I don't even hate ROH or anything - some of the most fun I ever had at a live event was at Supercard of Honor II - but even with crowds going up, I think ROH has definitely hit a ceiling because of things like production values still making them look low-rent.

Do I have some kind of weird bias here - which I readily acknowledge might be the case - or do I have a point?

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I don’t think NJPW benefits a hell of a lot from the relationship but ROH certainly does.  They aren’t selling 500 tickets for a show with Jay Lethal vs Dalton Castle, but they can run the Garden with Okada, Omega, Tanahashi, etc.  They wasted the Bucks in their first run before they went to NJPW and were literally drawing houses all over the country on the indies.  They wasted Sho and Yoh.  I guess they signed Cody first but Cody wasn’t THAT hot til the Elite stuff and the Bucks/Kenny somehow did the impossible of making Cody fucking Rhodes “cool.”  

ROH mostly serves as a vehicle to get the NJPW guys into America on a decent-sized platform, and is essentially the wrestling show for Being the Elite.  NJPW doesn’t really use true ROH guys that much, though Beer City Bruiser did great earlier this year when he was there.  Cheeseburger is over in Japan.  War Machine was alright.  Elgin doesn’t work in the states at all right now.  Chuck Taylor had a run in the tag league with Greg but I don’t think he’s been back.

[Jmare007]

Naito losing today is kind of a shocker.

[Boss Rock]

If Okada ends up winning the tournament, that's pretty much it for Naito main-eventing WK next year.

[SirEdger]

Why's that much of a shocker that Naito lost to Kenny in his first match? I'm way more stunned that Okada lost his first match to Jay White.

[Jmare007]

1 hour ago, Boss Rock said:

If Okada ends up winning the tournament, that's pretty much it for Naito main-eventing WK next year.

They could come up with an angle/rivalry thing for him to get a title shot in the Fall anyway, but if that was the plan it's weird they didn't do the typical thing of pinning the champ in the G1 to earn a title shot. Or maybe he's actually gonna win the whole thing back to back.

I'm all for Gedo no repeating the 2015 story with Naito/Okada, but the WK 12 finish is gonna look as stupid as it did in January if Okada wins the G-1 and the payoff of WK is Naito being out of the title picture for more than a year.

 

1 minute ago, SirEdger said:

Why's that much of a shocker that Naito lost to Kenny in his first match? I'm way more stunned that Okada lost his first match to Jay White.

White beating Okada was actually expected. Day 1 upsets are almost mandatory in the G-1 (and most puro tournaments) and they are running with the angle that Okada has lost a step after losing the belt and is trying to find his groove again. 

RE: Naito. It's kind of hard picturing him winning the tournament back to back - specially before today's results - so his best bet to get to the WK 13 main event title match (and make this year's ending worth a damn for him) was winning the belt from Kenny before January. The path for him to get that title shot would've presented itself if he pinned Omega today, as it's become a tradition of sorts for every guy that beats the champ in the G-1 to get an IWGP title match in September/October/November. With him losing, he either has to win the G-1 or they gotta come up with a new reason for him to challenge Kenny before WK. Or hell, maybe Naito becomes the first person to challenge the G-1 winner and actually beat him for the n°1 contendership.

 

[Boss Rock]

2 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

I'm all for Gedo no repeating the 2015 story with Naito/Okada, but the WK 12 finish is gonna look as stupid as it did in January if Okada wins the G-1 and the payoff of WK is Naito being out of the title picture for more than a year.

Exactly. They should have just had him win right then and there but I would have forgiven it had he won it at WK 13. Although the theory I've seen is that they're waiting to do Okada-Naito at WK 14 when January 4th is on a Saturday and try to sell out the dome. But I dunno how much longer you can hold off on Naito winning and still sell out in a year and-a-half.

[Jmare007]

50 minutes ago, Boss Rock said:

Exactly. They should have just had him win right then and there but I would have forgiven it had he won it at WK 13. Although the theory I've seen is that they're waiting to do Okada-Naito at WK 14 when January 4th is on a Saturday and try to sell out the dome. But I dunno how much longer you can hold off on Naito winning and still sell out in a year and-a-half.

It's amazing how far people move the goalposts when it comes to New Japan booking

[Gutenberger]

Naito vs. Ishii and Omega vs. Goto were by far the best matches in the tournament so far. It was almost scary at times.

And when Omega accidentally dropped the title after the match? My first thought was "Man, Vince would've had him lose the title asap and he'd be in shitty feuds for the next 6 months probably". Which, to be fair, isn't that far fetched...

[sek69]

On 7/15/2018 at 6:40 PM, Jmare007 said:

It's amazing how far people move the goalposts when it comes to New Japan booking

 I mean, right or wrong the idea was to have Okada become the guy with the most defenses. So while I wouldn't have had Naito come up short in his big chance, at least I can see why it was booked that way.  If he beats Kenny before January and Okada wins the G1, at least there's a story of him never beating "THE GUY" for the title. I would hope that's the plan they are working on, since keeping Naito out of the title scene would just be baffling beyond words. 

[Jmare007]

I've really enjoyed Yano this tourney, I knew he was going to be fun to watch in Korakuen but his first match with Ishii was really good too.

20 hours ago, sek69 said:

 I mean, right or wrong the idea was to have Okada become the guy with the most defenses. So while I wouldn't have had Naito come up short in his big chance, at least I can see why it was booked that way.  If he beats Kenny before January and Okada wins the G1, at least there's a story of him never beating "THE GUY" for the title. I would hope that's the plan they are working on, since keeping Naito out of the title scene would just be baffling beyond words. 

The theory Boss Rock was saying he read was that Okada/Naito would happen in 2020 so it could sell out the Dome, that's just hilarious to me. No matter how baffling or lazy Gedo's booking is, people come out with incredible ways to justify it.

 

 

[SpecialK]

How is Gedo's booking baffling? I don't like a lot of his choices, but it's all completely logical.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

On 7/20/2018 at 1:28 PM, Jmare007 said:

I've really enjoyed Yano this tourney, I knew he was going to be fun to watch in Korakuen but his first match with Ishii was really good too.

Yeah, I thought Yano/Ishii was pretty great.

[El-P]

On 7/15/2018 at 2:43 AM, William Bologna said:

Elgin is terrible at every single aspect of pro wrestling other than being strong (and look, he's got barbells on his gear!). I sincerely believe that he is the worst guy on the NJPW roster.

Reaching Day 7 of the G1, and he's easily the worst wrestler of the entire tournament. Even old-ass Makabe understands pro-wrestling much better and despite a dubious kind of offense at times has matches that make sense. Elgin can do a lot of shit and sadly, does them all. He's the posterboy for tigh-slapping indierrific work. It's too bad because he could be really good if he wasn't such a mark for his own self getting his shit in, as he got great physical tools. He's the one guy I always don't look forward to see. Can't the WWE sign him away from NJ ? Come on, look at him, he's big and does stuff, just sign him to NXT and let Jeff Cobb take his spot in NJ instead. I wish Taichi had been given his spot, matches would be better and a lot more fun.

Apart from that, the G1 is so much fun to follow on day to day basis. Just gotta take some days off to not get burned out, but damn, so much great matches already and simply fun stuff to boot. Yano has been terrific. Omega, Naito, Okada, Tanahashi, Suzuki, Sabre, Ishii and White (damn, what happened to that guy ?) have been awesome. Ibushi, Goto & SANADA are really good and always intriguing to watch. So are Hangman and Juice (moreso) on the gaijin side. The Tongans running rough shots on everyone isn't exactly my cup of tea from a stylistic standpoint (in term of booking, too much US style bullshit for this context), but it works in getting tons of heat, and Fale is a really good monster, while Tama is really a douchebag you want to get slapped in the face a lot. And yes, Block B murders Block A in term of high quality matches.

Great way to spend an otherwise boring summer.

[Cap]

Finally starting to cherry pick my way through what has happened. I wish I had the time and mental energy to keep up with this, but even when I can sit down and watch it sort of burns me out pretty quickly. 

 

On the subject of Elgin, I never liked him and then a couple years ago he started to grow on me a little bit. He had some good matches with Omega and an out of nowhere good match on that Money Mark show in Greensboro with Trevor Lee. He had a barn burner with Sabre in Chicago I think. Right as all his controversy came along I was just starting to get on board with him a little as at least a big match worker. Then he took a hard dive again over the last year and became the first guy I can remember who might have actually hurt Ishii with a stupid move. Just doesn't do anything for me. I doubt I'll find my way to checking out too many of his matches from this tourny. 

[El-P]

Elgin managed to have the weakest of the Suzuki matches thus far. That's all there is to say about it. 

Meanwhile, Jay White keeps on being an awesome heel, including in the tag matches. Hangman Page is more hit and miss to me, he's got that indierriffic kinda style that doesn't always work well with me. He has to stop doing that ridiculous standing shooting star press outside, it looks dangerous as hell and the impact always looks crappy.

On the other hand, I've been enjoying Fale a lot, including with all the bullshit by the Tongans. At least, it's consistent.

Sabre Jr. is just great. That face he made when SANADA was all of a sudden going toe to toe with him on the mat... Speaking of which, SANADA vs Ibushi was as terrific a stallion match could be.

Ishii, Tana, Okada, Naito, well, they are as great as they are supposed to be. Omega is having quite the tourney thus far too, despite working injured apparently.

[William Bologna]

Page is one of the guys in this thing I hadn't already made my mind up about, so I've been watching him pretty closely. He's a really appealing natural babyface, but I agree that his moveset is pretty goofy. He'd be more effective if he stuck to basics.

Which I think also applies to Jay White. He's been great, but he could get all his heeling done without throwing half a dozen suplexes per match.

[El-P]

I must add I love relaxed, goofy Okada.

The whole thing has its ups and downs obviously, but I've reached Day 10 watching the entire cards without any sign of burning out. Block B days are obviously delivering the best stuff every time around.

[Childs]

Amen on that  Hangman Page dive. Poor EVIL had to dance around like an idiot, looking for the right spot to catch it, and the impact still looked shitty. Page works very hard, and the crowd does seem to like him, but he has yet to click with me for a whole match. 

Like El-P, however, I've really enjoyed this G-1 overall, even the story lines the Meltzerati have bagged on such as the Tongans. The 7/27 A Block show was probably my least favorite to date, but even that  I found an easy watch. In previous years, I tried to cherry pick the best matches after the fact. But I'm having a lot more fun going along for the whole ride. 

[Wahoos Leg]

The last 3 years I have been so slammed with work in summers I didn't have time to watch G1 at all. This year, work has me behind, but I'm still able to watch -- albeit on a significant delay. 

I'm 4 1/2 shows in and enjoying it. I'll echo those who are underwhelmed with Elgin. When he first came into NJPW, I thought he stood out with some of his power moves and basically was presented and portrayed as a Dr. Death type. Now he's lost weight (good for him, I guess), but as a consequence of that he's flying all over the place and just seems like another guy. He's also definitely the "movez!!!" guy of the tournament... in a bad way. His matches with Page and White were both just him trying to do as much stuff, as quickly and with as much variance as possible, with little to no rhyme or reason. 

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Wahoos Leg said:

I'm 4 1/2 shows in and enjoying it. I'll echo those who are underwhelmed with Elgin. When he first came into NJPW, I thought he stood out with some of his power moves and basically was presented and portrayed as a Dr. Death type. 

Funny you should mention Dr. Death, because the more I watch him the more he looks like the worst possible Steve Williams ever in the worst possible pro-wrestling world ever. It's like he picked up all the worse trait of Dr. Death and none of what made him great (or even fun to watch).

His piss poor approach of pro-wrestling was perfectly summarized in these two spots during his match against Fale : at this point, he's selling his injured shoulder like crazy, meaning he's keeping his arm bent and close to his chest (good) and simply does this "I'm taking a shit" pose he always does (bad). Anyway, he's selling it like crazy. Except, when he does a superkick, he emphatically uses his arm to slap his tight, because he's a tigh slapper like that. And I mean, Shawn Micheals like emphatic (and damn, thank you Micheals for all this bullshit, among other stupid stuff like delaying you finisher forever while making it obvious to the opponent who often looks stupid taking it). So, it's not like going through pain to execute an offensive move : it's fucking superkick ! Yet, he flails his arm to slap his tigh and make a stupid noise effect. Dumb as fuck. Then later, he actually uses his injured elbow as a weapon, throwing a huge-ass elbow shot to try and KO Fale. Ok, so, since he's been selling this shit all the time between spots and this has effectively hampered his power stuff, he's gonna sell this like it hurts like hell, right ? Wrong. He just throw the fucking elbow like nothing and go for his nearfall. Then, goes back to selling it. Elgin's "great selling" in a nutshell. Yeah, at this point (Day 13), I'm really, really tired of the guy in featured matches everyday.

Apart from that, you can see as the tournament progress in the second half that they are getting a bit tired and they do work some shorter matches (or so it feels to me, I haven't punched a clock). They are clearly aiming at getting some wind back before the three Budokan shows. Tons of cool stuff still in the big points matches and some cool detail booking. Hangman Page vs Togi Makabe was a nice surprise in how good it was too (I'm not saying it was great or anything, but really good and solid and well worked on both parts).

[Wahoos Leg]

The thigh slapping for noise effects looks especially bad when other guys are hitting the same strikes without that whip-crack sound 

[Jmare007]

I'm so happy Ishii will get a IWGP title show, if it's at KOPW Sumo Hall is gonna be rocking like when Shibata challenged Okada last year.

[benjaminkicks]

It's interesting seeing the variance in opinions on Elgin throughout the online wrestling community. Most people here are clearly not fans, then you have the guys on the Purocast calling him one of the top 5 performers in the tournament so far. I'm somewhere in the middle, though I do lean towards generally liking his ring work. I've really enjoyed his matches vs. EVIL, Page, White, and Okada in this tournament. Crazy to think it's his 4th G1 in a row.

As for the tournament as a whole, I think it's been absolutely awesome. It helps that New Japan is easily my favorite current promotion and I'm super invested in the storylines and characters, but I honestly think these G1s get better ever year. So many great matches already, and I'm not even fully caught up. The final three nights in Budokan are gonna be nuts.

I love the booking of this years tournament. The last few years (with the exception of maybe Omega in 2016) the winners have been pretty predictable. But now we still have 3 guys in each block still in contention (Tanahashi, Okada, and Jay White for A block, Ibushi, Naito, and Omega for B block), and I really have no idea who making it to the finals. Any combination of those 6 guys seem plausible to me, except for maybe Okada/Naito, which I don't think they'll give away for a show that's already sold-out. 

The possibilities of the A block really intrigue me. If EVIL spoils Jay White, you have the really great story of Okada needing to beat Tanahashi in less than 30 minutes to advance, something he hasn't done since their first title match way back at New Beginning 2012. Or you have White beat EVIL, and Okada has no chance to advance but beating Tanahashi means White advances.

Okada is my favorite wrestler, so I'm always rooting for him to win, but I think it would be pretty awesome seeing Jay White in the finals against any of those three B block guys. Jay has huge heat as a heel to the Japanese crowds, and putting him vs. Ibushi, Naito, or Omega means the crowd will be completely against him. That match would have some mega heat in front of the sold-out Budokan crowd, with everyone booing the shit out of Switchblade and cheering whoever he faces.

[El-P]

Ishii vs Omega on Day 14. Motherfuckers... I've lost count on legit great matches already (and I don't drop "great match" label that easily either), but this one was another level of incredible.

And then Naito and Ibushi manage to follow it up. For fuck's sake.