shakla Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 There was a year were Snuka's total wasn't included on the results and Dave put a correction story the following week right before the "this is the 2nd issue of the current set" plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Something that came up elsewhere: Who are the guys with the greatest body of work on tape (quality and quantity) among guys not in? Akiyama, Fujiwara are the names I came up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Bryan, Taue, Park, Blue Panther too. Some people (not me) might argue Nagata and Edge. Unfortunately Fujiwara is not a guy that anybody outside of this board and DVDVR will consider as a serious work candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I's add Styles & Nakamura to that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Bryan, Taue, Park, Blue Panther too. Some people (not me) might argue Nagata and Edge. Unfortunately Fujiwara is not a guy that anybody outside of this board and DVDVR will consider as a serious work candidate. I would've thought it's difficult for any Mexico guy to have the body of work on tape that Japanese and American guys do just due to the availability of footage issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Panther is a modern candidate with plenty on tape but he's often overlooked because a bulk of his work is on trios matches. We don't have his 80s stuff other than a match here and there, though. Parka's entire career is pretty much on tape. Others like Viillano III or Misioneros (most of their top work is not on tape) or Brazos (only the tail end of their trios career is on tape) have it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanClingman Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Unfortunately Fujiwara is not a guy that anybody outside of this board and DVDVR will consider as a serious work candidate. I don't want to sound like I am stuck in the bubble, but this is baffling to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Bryan, Taue, Park, Blue Panther too. Some people (not me) might argue Nagata and Edge. Unfortunately Fujiwara is not a guy that anybody outside of this board and DVDVR will consider as a serious work candidate. I would've thought it's difficult for any Mexico guy to have the body of work on tape that Japanese and American guys do just due to the availability of footage issue. There's a 38 disc El Hijo Del Santo set with 200+ matches where the person who put it together said he had to leave another 100 matches on the cutting room floor due to space. It also doesn't include anything from the last 8 years, or anything new that was discovered in the past 8 years. That's a pretty good body of work. As Jose says, it depends on when the wrestler worked. Guys who did a lot of work in the 90s have a lot of matches available. The 80s and 70s candidates much less. But this is similar to US candidates. We don't have a lot of Jack Brisco. A chunk of what we have for him is from Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Dave just tweeted that there are 7 inductees this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Could that be a sign the logjam finally broke for the Mexican candidates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Edge made it in five times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 "The newcomers to the Hall of Fame are: Brock Lesnar, arguably the biggest current pro wrestling star in the world, Shinsuke Nakamura, last year's Wrestler of the Year, the recently deceased Perro Aguayo Jr., one of the best tag teams of the 60s in the Masked Assassins of Jody Hamilton & Tom Renesto, Ivan Koloff, one of the top three heels of the 1970s, Puerto Rico's all-time biggest star Carlos Colon, and former Montreal promoter Eddie Quinn." Weird list. Some bad choices, some good ones. Overall I do agree with Dylan's hot Twitter takes: "For those who pretend Dave's coverage doesn't matter look at vote totals for Perrito, Nak and Brock. #WONHOF" "Nakamura possibly most obvious "fad" pick since Angle. If Okada was on ballot today I'm positive he'd be voted in. #WONHOF" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Well I'm happy about The Assassins, Koloff & Colon making it in. Disappointed that the people who only voted for Perro Jr. sunk the chances of any other lucha candidates making it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I guess we can take some small joy that he'll skin rabbits on his official WON HOF plaque to keep the blood off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Dylan Hales @DylanWaco The formatting on the "which group voted for who" category is so hilariously bad I can't believe it. #WONHOF This has been a trainwreck aspect for years. Which is kind of ironic given Dave's love for both (i) his Stats on who voted what, and (ii) his Who i.e. different groups of voters. I can't think of a junk stat in sports that's worse than Dave's HOF stats, and lord knows I run into tons of junk stats in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 i really don't mind brock as much as some here probably do, but that's mainly because i'm assuming he'll have a few more years like he's had. agree w/ dylan on perrito & the NJPW crew tho. will mexico ever clear out the logjam of great candidates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Perro Jr. had more of a Hall of Fame career than Cien Caras or Villano III? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Perro Jr. had more of a Hall of Fame career than Cien Caras or Villano III? death bump, associated w/ lucha underground which is the Good Lucha to your more typical smart fan also cien caras is the mexican JYD in terms of how he was always portrayed in the WON, so that's an uphill battle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm happy Colon got in; he had long felt like an absurd and unjust omission. Koloff too felt like a triumph of actual research over vague impressions. On the other hand, Brock and Nak were terrible choices. I love Brock as a performer but you'd have to twist yourself into pretzels to argue his second run has been good for WWE business, much less historically good. Dave calls him arguably the biggest wrestling star in the world. First off, I see little reason to put him ahead of Cena. Second, if that is the case, it's more an indictment of the era than a gold star for Brock. Nak is a great wrestler but he's primarily a work candidate and his resume as a top worker is maybe four years deep. I don't see how he's a much better candidate than Angle was, even though I like him a lot more. I also see zero, and I mean zero, argument for him over Daniel Bryan. Both Nak and Brock highlight, for the umpteenth time, the absurdity of the age and experience bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Perro Jr. had more of a Hall of Fame career than Cien Caras or Villano III? death bump, associated w/ lucha underground which is the Good Lucha to your more typical smart fan also cien caras is the mexican JYD in terms of how he was always portrayed in the WON, so that's an uphill battle I understand and expected the result, it's just stupid and wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Perrito deserved to be in when he retired.....death came first...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Some additional takeaways: Nakamura did well among all the voting groups, but did best with “Reporters”: would be curious to see which goons fall into that category and can be blamed for this. Perrito's highest voting block was Current Wrestlers, which may suggest his selection being a tribute and honoring of their contemporary “killed in action”, so to speak. Colon likewise seemed to get in largely due to votes from Current Wrestlers, the group with whom he did by far the best. #2 highest vote recipient for Current Wrestlers, 9th with Reporters, 14th with Historians, 15th with Retired Wrestlers. Pretty interesting that while a lot of his peers remain opposed to him, the current generation hold him in much higher regard. “Those coming the closest to getting in were Okerlund (eight votes short), Crockett Sr. (Six votes short), Los Misioneros de la Muerte (six votes short) and Villano III (seven votes short).” You can in particular really see in the breakdown of the voting how close Crockett and Mean Gene were. Okerlund was 4th among Former Wrestlers, 8th with Reporters, and 14th with Current Wrestlers, but was only 25th among Historians. Crockett's downfall came by being not even among the top 30th recipients among Historians, and only #29 with Former Wrestlers, which suggests a really staggering difference of perception between how those who were “there” view him vs. how modern wrestlers credit him with the success of JCP. Bryan did best with Reporters (2nd overall), but poorly with the other groups, esp. Current Wrestlers. Zellner seemed to be saying on Twitter that Nagata was now off the ballot, which I don't think is correct. By “significant drop” I think Dave just meant that Nagata's percentage plunged, but that he's still on the ballot. The only names to actually fall off the ballot with less than 10% were Geigel, Styles, Big Show, and Garza. Dave is already planning to put Styles back on for the third time in 2017, which - as others have already said - flexes a pretty lame bias. Dave is planning to kill the “Rest of the World” category now that Colon is in, which basically just means that all of the American guys who were Australian stars are moving back to the U.S. category. The worker to receive the most votes from Former Wrestlers was Cien Caras, which is amazing and tells you there are probably a lot of luchadors voting. Candidate to receive the most votes from Current Wrestlers was Jim Crockett, Sr., which is equally baffling. #2 highest votes from from Former Wrestlers went to the Sharpe Brothers, which also surprises me. For those slagging the formatting (really just a botched C&P of columns he made for the online version, methinks), here's a top half breakdown of how the blocks voted. Overall I'd say Historians have the best taste, then Former Wrestlers (solid picks, inoffensive even when wrong), followed by Active Wrestlers (surprising, interesting choices, but several bad ones) narrowly beating out Reporters, who I'd place last. Again, not sure who falls into the category, but it sure looks like a lot of WON “columnists” and Euro geeks voting high on Nakamura, Perrito, Brock, Edge, and Big Daddy. Reporters is likely the largest group as well, given that their list most closely reflects the results. REPORTERS: 1. The Assassins 2. Bryan Danielson 3. Shinsuke Nakamura 4. Stanley Weston 5. Perro Aguayo Jr. 6. Brock Lesnar 7. Jim Crockett Sr. 8. Gene Okerlund 9. Carlos Colon 10. Villano III 11. Mike & Ben Sharpe 12. Ivan Koloff 13. Cien Caras 14. Edge 15. Big Daddy HISTORIANS 1. Volk Han 2. Ivan Koloff 3. Brock Lesnar 4. Shinsuke Nakamura 5. Gary Hart 6. George Gordienko 7. Los Misioneros de la Muerte 8. Jerry Jarrett 9. Villano III 10. Perro Aguayo Jr. 11. Karloff Lagarde 12. Blue Panther 13. Bill Apter 14. Carlos Colon 15. Mark Lewin FORMER WRESTLERS 1. Cien Caras 2. Mike & Ben Sharpe 3. Bill Apter 4. Gene Okerlund 5. John Tolos 6. Enrique Torres 7. Shinsuke Nakamura 8. Curt Hennig 9. Ricki Starr 10. Red Bastien 11. Jim Crockett Sr. 12. Ivan Koloff 13. Don Owen 14. Killer Karl Kox 15. Carlos Colon ACTIVE WRESTLERS 1. Jim Crockett Sr. 2. Carlos Colon 3. The Assassins 4. Perro Aguayo Jr. 5. Rollerball Mark Rocco 6. Johnny Saint 7. Gary Hart 8. Shinsuke Nakamura 9. Brock Lesnar 10. Villano III 11. Dr. Wagner Jr. 12. Johnny “Wrestling II” Walker 13. Sting 14. Gene Okerlund 15. Bill Apter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 So is the argument against Nak that he was too young? Or is it a case of people being mad Bryan didn't get in? I'm a casual NJPW fan but it seems like he was the guy on top during their peak times and of course brings it in the ring, Seemingly he has all the usual HOF bases covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Bryan not doing well with current wrestlers surprises me because wrestlers don't seem to care as much anymore about who draws money and everyone seems to take pride in the performance aspect. Contrast that with Benoit, who performed in an era where wrestlers seemed to value drawing money a hell of a lot more, yet he commanded a lot more respect among his peers than Bryan does ... for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 It's amazing how different the voting is by category Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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