Observer HOF prediction/ballot question thread

[Jingus]

Does Jericho count as "returning" in the same way as guys who skip entire years or only wrestle once or twice annually? He's a part-timer, but he returns pretty often and consistently. Also, Jericho has a much larger multimedia presence than a lot of the other guys in the WWE. He's got his band, his podcast, various non-wrestling television and movie appearances. He keeps himself in the public eye to a much larger degree than someone like the aforementioned Boogeyman, who pretty much vanishes off the face of the earth whenever they're not under contract.

[SteveJRogers]

Does Jericho count as "returning" in the same way as guys who skip entire years or only wrestle once or twice annually? He's a part-timer, but he returns pretty often and consistently. Also, Jericho has a much larger multimedia presence than a lot of the other guys in the WWE. He's got his band, his podcast, various non-wrestling television and movie appearances. He keeps himself in the public eye to a much larger degree than someone like the aforementioned Boogeyman, who pretty much vanishes off the face of the earth whenever they're not under contract.

Keith Hernandez has been a New York Met TV broadcaster for the past 15, nearly 20 years or so, but when brought out on the field for whatever ceremonial reason still gets as loud of pops as he did the first time he returned following his final game as a Met in 1989.

[Jingus]

Which, you'd assume, would be more of a tribute to Hernandez's "overness" than anything else, right?

[SteveJRogers]

Which, you'd assume, would be more of a tribute to Hernandez's "overness" than anything else, right?

 

Yes, and one can make comparisons between Keith Hernandez and Chris Jericho in terms of popularity compared to actual worthiness of being discussed as an all-time great. But the point is, Hernandez is still very much visible to Met fans, yet will still get the same pops if say they only saw him like once every 5 or so years.

[Jingus]

But the point is, Hernandez is still very much visible to Met fans, yet will still get the same pops if say they only saw him like once every 5 or so years.

Are you arguing that this reaction is a good thing or a bad thing, in terms of debating the guy's legacy?

[SteveJRogers]

 

But the point is, Hernandez is still very much visible to Met fans, yet will still get the same pops if say they only saw him like once every 5 or so years.

Are you arguing that this reaction is a good thing or a bad thing, in terms of debating the guy's legacy?

Depends. Met HOF/WWE HOF, sure. But a look beyond sustained popularity is needed for Baseball HOF, overall Pro Wrestling HOF.

 

Its a factor in Jericho's case since belovedness does seem to be a component in a wrestler's legacy.

[Tim Cooke]

Why is there a separate thread for WON ballots when there is a good thread going right here?

[elliott]

I don't think Edge was completely horrible or anything. I just don't think he's an elite worker, and more frustrating, he's not at all the type of worker who fits the descriptions he usually gets. Dave even talked about him once as one of the few guys in current wrestling (current being 2010-2011) who worked like he was in a fight and struggled to hit moves instead of working a match like a cooperative dance.

 

His other two examples of the few who worked that way were Jericho and Orton.

 

HOLY SHIT! I have no words.

[goc]

Why is there a separate thread for WON ballots when there is a good thread going right here?

Because this thread has been sullied with Dragon King Karl slander and Edge hate.

[KrisZ]

I wanted to have a separate thread for ballots only

[cheapshot]

 

Big Daddy flunks at least half of the qualifications. His business practices ultimately had the long-term effect of permanently killing all professional wrestling as a viable industry in England forever. And in-ring, he's possibly the single worst wrestler that I've ever see perform on the entire nomination list.

 

Lots of veterans will knock Jerry Jarrett (and rightly so) for his poverty-line payoffs; but there's still plenty of praise out there for him as a moneymaker, as a booker, and as a human being. In comparison, I literally can't recall a single good word ever spoken by any British worker about Big Daddy ever.

 

 

Jingus, you never responded to Keith or my responses regarding your Big Daddy claims.

[Cox]

This is only tangentially related to the thread, but after watching Edge on The Flash last night, I find it comical that Dave ever talked up his acting ability as being even average, let alone Hall of Fame worthy. He was so cartoonishly over-the-top and hammy that it managed to stand out on a superhero TV show on The CW.

[mookeighana]

This is only tangentially related to the thread, but after watching Edge on The Flash last night, I find it comical that Dave ever talked up his acting ability as being even average, let alone Hall of Fame worthy. He was so cartoonishly over-the-top and hammy that it managed to stand out on a superhero TV show on The CW.

 

(We're really veering off the HOF path here but...)

Having seen him on Haven, he's perfectly adequate on there.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I think Edge was heaps better and more natural than the majority of wrestlers in terms of acting ability.

[pol]

Seems like the most contentious candidates are almost always those whose case is made primarily with work. I can understand debating work if it's a matter of "this guy was great, but just how great was he?" using arguments of longevity, versatility, career vs. peak etc., but if it's a fundamental disagreement regarding if the candidate was even good it seems like a waste of energy. You might be able to convince someone that a guy they see as great just doesn't have the body of work to justify HOF inclusion, but you probably aren't going to convince them that they aren't that great to begin with.

[Cox]

I'm going back and looking at last year's WON HOF vote totals, and something is not adding up. Dave has Carlos Colon getting 76 votes for 56% of the ballot. But that doesn't make any sense; there were 82 votes cast in the Rest of the World region last year. 56% of 82 votes would be 46 votes, not 76. If Colon did get 76 votes out of 82, he would have easily been elected last year with 92.8%. Has Dave ever offered any retraction for the vote total Colon showed last year? I still don't see how Colon would have only gotten 46 of 82 ballots cast in that category, even as weird as the breadth and depth of that category can make it look, but at least that would make more sense than Colon getting 76 of 82 votes and not getting elected.

[Loss]

When I think of Edge, the first thing that always comes to mind is getting bug-eyed, pulling his hair back and dancing like he has to pee really bad while waiting to spear someone. The second thing is endless skits with Vicki Guerrero and Lita. So I think that's where the perception about his acting comes from.

[El Boricua]

I'm going back and looking at last year's WON HOF vote totals, and something is not adding up. Dave has Carlos Colon getting 76 votes for 56% of the ballot. But that doesn't make any sense; there were 82 votes cast in the Rest of the World region last year. 56% of 82 votes would be 46 votes, not 76. If Colon did get 76 votes out of 82, he would have easily been elected last year with 92.8%. Has Dave ever offered any retraction for the vote total Colon showed last year? I still don't see how Colon would have only gotten 46 of 82 ballots cast in that category, even as weird as the breadth and depth of that category can make it look, but at least that would make more sense than Colon getting 76 of 82 votes and not getting elected.

 

How many votes were there in modern U.S. by chance?

[Cox]

There were 198 votes cast in modern US. Talking with Bix on this, he seems to think Dave hit 7 instead of 4 on the number pad for Colon, giving him 46 ballots instead of 76 ballots, which seems to make the most sense. But something similar happened the year before, when I went back to look - Colon is listed as having 85 votes out of 86 ballots cast, for 59% of the vote. That REALLY doesn't make any sense, and unlike the 2014 balloting, that can't be summed up with a simple typo - 59% of 86 is 51 votes, and Colon is listed as having 85. Something is pretty fishy about these numbers.

[Cox]

Just went back to 2012. Colon had 61 of 63 votes. Somehow this was also 59%, even though that is 96.8% of the votes.

 

ETA: I just realized I screwed all of this up. I was looking at votes needed for induction, not total votes cast, which I don't think is listed on here. You can ignore everything I've said, sorry about that.

[kjh]

Dave only lists the votes needed for induction. To get the total voters you would have to multiply those numbers by 5/3. So last year there were: 330 U.S. and Canada modern, 245 U.S. and Canada historical, 103 Japan, 98 Mexico, 136 Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, and 108 Europe voters.

[Cox]

Dave only lists the votes needed for induction. To get the total voters you would have to multiply those numbers by 5/3. So last year there were: 330 U.S. and Canada modern, 245 U.S. and Canada historical, 103 Japan, 98 Mexico, 136 Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, and 108 Europe voters.

Yep, I realized this after you posted it. I'm a bit embarrassed about that, as I misread Dave's numbers, but I guess these things happen from time to time. I still don't see how this category has 135 people voting in it with 59 people NOT voting for Colon, but it makes more sense now mathematically, at least. Really hope Colon gets in soon as i think he is unfairly keeping the bar higher for Lewin, DeNucci, and the other rest of the world guys who may not be getting a fair shake of things with Colon skewing the numbers. From what I've seen counting ballots the past few years, a lot of people vote only for Colon in this category.

[Matt D]

Usually (as much as I hate the fact) I don't think that the work you guys do moves the needle too much.

 

Here, though? Colon seems like he just needs a few more votes, so maybe it's enough.

[WrestlingPower]

Typos do happen though. One year Meltzer inadvertently left off one of the Dr. Wagners, never acknowledged it, and just added him back on a year or 2 later.

[Mad Dog]

Wait.. we runs an old school podcast?

He's had several versions but he's had a podcast off and on for like a decade now.