NotJayTabb Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Well, Red has a nomination thread in the GWE folder, so he's got his supporters. There is a parallel with Mysterio, in that both were super-dynamic high-fliers who suffered knee injuries that caused them to slow down and become smarter workers. That said, much as I like Red, he's no Mysterio. Rey is a guy who could have good TV matches with anyone, and generally did over a 10yr+ WWE career. I mean, Red once got something watchable out of Petey Williams which is a feat in itself, but it's not a close comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminkicks Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 So, Rey is a guy I don't get and have never got. See my review of Eddie vs. Rey from 97 for the sort of things I can't stand about him. I would be cool for someone to walk through what they like about him. He seems like Ricky Morton + a load of irritating fireworks to me. Sell me. Do you like high flyers in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Do people like Amazing Red too? I do, but he and Mysterio have not much in common. Red was a fun little spot guy who was entertaining, and Rey is one of the best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Amazing Red is to Rey Mysterio what Jeff Jarrett is to Ric Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I agree with Loss. I love Rey a lot, but today I was thinking of a great American Rey match that could match Rey-Eddie and couldn't think of much. I really love the Eddie-Rey SD match from '04 for the title, even more than their '05 SD match in the middle of the legitimate epic that was that feud. I was at the 2004 match live and completely love it. The 2005 match is even better. Can't believe I forgot those two. It is possible the 2009 Jericho and the 2010 Punk matches could match the the Eddie matches. I don't think Liger is better than Rey Rey on great matches alone. I just thought Liger relies more on classic matches and Rey Rey relies on a bevy of good to great TV matches. Rey's offense works because it is rooted in context. He takes what is given to him and works in smart ways to get his offense in. There is very little my turn your turn in his greatest matches. He uses an up tempo, full court press to win matches but his moves are high risk leading to some pretty spectacular ass kickings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 So, Rey is a guy I don't get and have never got. See my review of Eddie vs. Rey from 97 for the sort of things I can't stand about him. I would be cool for someone to walk through what they like about him. He seems like Ricky Morton + a load of irritating fireworks to me. Sell me.Do you like high flyers in general? Parv is a heel guy so I'm guessing he isn't as a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Amazing Red is to Rey Mysterio what Jeff Jarrett is to Ric Flair. I like Jarrett more than most, but this still seems like too easy of a dismissal of Red. I'd agree that he never became the well rounded wrestler that Rey did, but Red did become more than just a spot guy. And, even when he was just a spot guy he was one of the best spot guys in all of wrestling. At his very best I don't think Jarrett was ever one of the best of anything in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 It was a comment that was meant to prop Rey up more than tear down Red. Rey is a top 5 wrestler all time IMO just as Ric Flair is for most everyone. Red and Jarrett could be in the top 100 for some people but they are no Rey/Flair. It was to demonstrate how silly it is to lump Rey with Red based, presumably, on the idea they are high flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 As someone who hasn't seen much Red, does he rank above Sasuke, or probably not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 As someone who hasn't seen much Red, does he rank above Sasuke, or probably not? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 As someone who hasn't seen much Red, does he rank above Sasuke, or probably not? Sasuke I think is one of the all-timers as far as Japanese juniors go. Amazing Red was a great worker in the American indies but I never felt like he was one of the top 10 in that category at any point in his career. Well except for a list of best TNA X Division workers but that is extremely low hanging fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 As someone who hasn't seen much Red, does he rank above Sasuke, or probably not?Sasuke I think is one of the all-timers as far as Japanese juniors go. Amazing Red was a great worker in the American indies but I never felt like he was one of the top 10 in that category at any point in his career. Well except for a list of best TNA X Division workers but that is extremely low hanging fruit.Whoops posted this when I was editing it in the am and left it open my bad. Anyway X Division from 2002-2007 ruled with MOTYC and legit top 5,10 or 20 in the world talent. And again in 2011-2012 it had a damn good run. Anyway, ugh I don't want to be off topic or be a TNA martyr, so I will not. Just AJ/Joe/Daniels are top 20 of the last 15 years in my book. Also I got some love for Low Ki and Jerry Lynn in TNA 2002. I think it was Lynn's best run of his career and helped AJ develop and slowed Ki down and was a great guy to have. Ki in 02/03 (ROH & TNA) is also my favorite run of his. Jay Lethal as Macho Man could have been big in WWE. I liked his underdog match v. Angle for the X Title at No Surrender 2007 I believe. His best stuff was with Ric Flair in 2010, as far as being a character. Damn that "Flair off" promo is one of the top 10 best things ever in TNA. Too bad it wasn't Ric Flair 1988, so they could have made Lethal with a badass match. EDIT: Oct 16, 2015 for stupidity I'll post on the topic next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Whoops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Russian Daydream Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Mysterio has had a tremendous career. He's the most globally recognisable Lucha wrestler on the planet and he has a portfolio of matches worth watching with a huge variety of opponents. For me though, he simply cannot compete with the rock-solid consistency of Liger for the past three decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 My visceral reaction to the original question would be Liger, but the more I think about it the closer it becomes. I think my instinct is that Liger is probably top 10-15 and Rey is probably top 30, but I can see them getting much closer as I watch more and think carefully about it. O do think Liger's high spots are pretty clearly higher, but Rey was consistently entertaining. Both have such longevity and have dealt with the test of time differently. Both were incredibly innovative and entertaining. Both brought the super hero aesthetic of wrestling to life and brought different versions of that to a mainstream American audience. I will just talk myself in circles if I keep this up. I may take up the challenge to sell Rey by talking through a match or two. I will see if I can find some time tomorrow. Really quick, I have a lot of time for Red too. He is not really in the same conversation as either Liger or Rey to me, but I think he was an underrated part of the movement in the early 2000s indy scene to put out a different wrestling product. I really do see that as a movement in American wrestling that was challenging the monopoly of the WWE in terms of both style and the distribution of wrestling and that has fundamentally changed what wrestling is in America today. Style wise, I think Rey was a pretty big part of that. To look at that style and critique it compared to more refined TV wrestling is pretty unfair. Those guys were going out and experimenting and trying to please a very different kind of fan. I think some of the experimenting Red did in the ring was really fun, not just spottiness for spottiness. The most obvious example is his match with Low-ki in ROH. I also think his tag matches with Styles against the Briscoes were fun and often pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Skinner Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Both will be on my list, but Rey is gonna be in my top 15-20 and Liger will be a bit lower. Rey's TV matches take him over the top for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I still have a lot of Liger I need to watch, but for me, Rey is a lock for my Top 10 and right now he's my #5. He's had good matches with everyone he's been in the ring with. Angle, Orton, Edge, Juvi, Punk, JBL, etc. He's given Angle and JBL their best matches and since I haven't seen Orton vs. Foley in forever, I'm going to say he's given Orton his best match ever. That, of course, could change when I go back and watch Foley murder Orton. Rey's ability to have compelling and dramatic seven minute matches simply amazes me. This GWE project has given me the chance to dive into Hansen, Jim Breaks, Fujinami, etc, but the most fun I've had while watching all of this stuff is Rey's TV matches. No one does it quite like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 What's Liger's second-best match against a heavy (#1 being the Hashimoto match)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 The Aoyagi match from 90 is pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 He had a G1 match with Nishimura from '01 that was on a Schneider Comp. It's interesting if you want to watch him work a fairly different style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm totally down with Liger-Nish. I habitually think of Nishimura as a graduated junior when he really wasn't past his young lion days, so I was ruling out something like Hase-Liger from '91 (which I can't find anyway) for that reason. The larger point which is that Rey has a great history working heavies which Liger doesn't still stands, though. But those few tags with Liger-Vader interaction are worth the price of admission. Obviously not a knock on Liger, but a plus for Rey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Liger for me. I never got Rey Mysterio. I think he's a wuss. Every time I watch him I'm thinking I'd like to see Ole Anderson and Stan Hansen maul him (kayfabe) in the Techwood studio. He wouldn't of been able to do a damn thing about it because he ain't believable. He doesn't know how to look like he's fighten. Which is something a mighty mouse worker needs to know how to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 It's not like Ole and Stan would have sold for Liger in the Techwood studios either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 To be fair to Liger, I don't think it was ever his role to be the heavy lifting tv worker that Rey has had to be in the WWE. Maybe I am wrong, but Japan seems to be built around big shows and certain tours rather than weekly TV. Although the WWE has always been about the pay per views/live specials, they rely much more heavily on television as a selling point and Rey as one of the guys to get people interested in the tv product. So in that sense, picking Rey over Liger based on the abundance of good tv work is probably logical but a bit unfair. It is like comparing a starting pitcher who is asked to pitch high volume of innings vs a closer who is asked to pitch a significantly lower volume of innings although having more high stress innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Doesn't make a difference to me jdw. I believe in Liger more. Selling for Ole and Stan wasn't the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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