Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 His insistence on looking strong at all costs, even at times to his own detriment, permeates everything he does. Incidentally this is why I see ZERO Flair in him Obviously I hate HHH, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Flair had no problem making his opponents look strong and himself weak. But Flair had times where he didn't carry that all the way through and do the job like he should have. The best example of this was his feud w/ Luger in '88. The time was right for Luger to beat Flair and become champion. It didn't happen. Would 1988 Flair have put over Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania like HHH did at WM 30? I think so, but I also think it's worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 His insistence on looking strong at all costs, even at times to his own detriment, permeates everything he does. Incidentally this is why I see ZERO Flair in him Obviously I hate HHH, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Flair had no problem making his opponents look strong and himself weak. But Flair had times where he didn't carry that all the way through and do the job like he should have. The best example of this was his feud w/ Luger in '88. The time was right for Luger to beat Flair and become champion. It didn't happen. Would 1988 Flair have put over Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania like HHH did at WM 30? I think so, but I also think it's worth discussing. No way. 2013 Flair hated putting Daniel Bryan over because he didn't drink and party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Making someone else look strong is work. Doing a job or not doing a job is politics. The two things are different. GWE isn't about politics, it is about work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 If not for politics few if any would get the shot at the top tier needed to be able to do GWE work though. I would argue my basic problem with the way Dusty books Flair is that it ends up making him look weak and the face like a moron. Nobody really looks great. And that booking style carried on at times after Dusty left. None of which is Flair's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Right, but that's not part of our assessment. We assess what happened. Not why or how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Flair and HHH are similar in that they both tanked matches with Scotty Steiner. HHH does make my list. He's somewhere in the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 The Taka match didn't hold up at all when I rewatched it. Taka has a decent opening shine, but the crowd never buys into any of it because they're too distracted by everything going on with the APA and the McMahons outside of the ring. At one point, the APA double-teams Triple H, throws him into the ring where he gets hit by flying moves from Funaki and Taka and he still kicks out. If that segment was designed to be an instance of him getting shown up like Flair, then it failed miserably. This!!!! the TAKA match is not a great match. HHH takes the entire match. TAKA gets ONE offensive move the entire match. HHH overcomes Kaeintai and the APA and it did nothing to make TAKA look strong and is another reminder of why the guy is a self-serving piece of shit. Horrible match. I was talking to Dylan about this and it was overbooked garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 What is everyone's opinion of the 1-Hour Iron Man Match with Rock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Other than the finish being kinda fucked up, I remember really enjoying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Pretty much liked that one a lot. But the finish indeed is total BS as is his never dropping the title himself. I know Parv is right politics and work are two different things. But with HHH I cannot separate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Also, I'm not knocking Triple H for being in a bunch of gimmick matches. I'm just pointing out that those are the ones that seem to stand out and it's not like he is doing anything special with them. Why doesn't he have more matches that stand out simply for being good? I don't want to derail this thread, but I have no idea what a non-gimmicked pro wrestling match is. But, I'm a guy that at least once has tried to make the case that UWF-i and companies like it are among the most gimmicked forms of wrestling. Sorry, this is a really weird wrestling peeve of mine. I'm probably out on my own island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Also, I'm not knocking Triple H for being in a bunch of gimmick matches. I'm just pointing out that those are the ones that seem to stand out and it's not like he is doing anything special with them. Why doesn't he have more matches that stand out simply for being good? I don't want to derail this thread, but I have no idea what a non-gimmicked pro wrestling match is. But, I'm a guy that at least once has tried to make the case that UWF-i and companies like it are among the most gimmicked forms of wrestling. Sorry, this is a really weird wrestling peeve of mine. I'm probably out on my own island. It's pretty simple. A gimmick match is a wrestling match with a gimmick added. If there is no gimmick added, then it is a non-gimmicked match. What a weird pet peeve. Of course all wrestling is gimmicky, but that has nothing to do with such terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I really, really enjoyed him before all the knee injuries in the early 2000s. All the injuries made him less mobile. He bumped really well prior to all those injuries. Even now in his mid 40s with two bad knees he still has had some great matches. The match vs Bryan was probably my favorite of 2014. The Cactus Jack feud was amazing. Good to great matches with Foley, Austin, Rock, Taker, Benoit, Orton, Angle, Cena, and HBK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 One of the hardest decisions I'm going to face list-wise is deciding who to place higher - Hunter or Angle. They're both about the same to me: high highs but shockingly low lows and a tendency to annoy the fucking shit out of me with their bullshit ideas on how to work. Is Hunter's selfish egotism and bloat worse than Angle's selfless but equally stupid spot fetish? At this point I have no idea. But Hunter's current bullshit, coupled with the fact that I haven't had to deal with Angle in a long time, makes me want to put Angle higher. On the other hand, there are Hunter matches I would put in my Top Whatever of all time, while I can't necessarily say the same for Angle, and that is a big tiebreaker for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 One of the hardest decisions I'm going to face list-wise is deciding who to place higher - Hunter or Angle. They're both about the same to me: high highs but shockingly low lows and a tendency to annoy the fucking shit out of me with their bullshit ideas on how to work. Is Hunter's selfish egotism and bloat worse than Angle's selfless but equally stupid spot fetish? At this point I have no idea. But Hunter's current bullshit, coupled with the fact that I haven't had to deal with Angle in a long time, makes me want to put Angle higher. On the other hand, there are Hunter matches I would put in my Top Whatever of all time, while I can't necessarily say the same for Angle, and that is a big tiebreaker for me as well. I'm thankful that most of my hard decisions involve Dutch Mantell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Just get rid of them both and replace them with a lucha or WoS worker like I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I think Angle's case is pretty weak tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I've been thinking about the final ballot and what not, and it just occurred to me...if I end up being the high voter on Triple Fucking Haitch, I'm going to jump into a lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I've been thinking about the final ballot and what not, and it just occurred to me...if I end up being the high voter on Triple Fucking Haitch, I'm going to jump into a lake. Just get rid of them both and replace them with a lucha or WoS worker like I would do. I bet you'd like Clive Myers. Have you seen any Zoltan Boscik maybe? Did you watch any old Man Negro Navarro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 As much as I want to just ditch the fucker every time I turn on Raw and see his stupid face, I can't in all good conscience. I went into it earlier in this thread, but there's all those matches I just fucking love so much. Can't do it. I just feel ridiculous about the very real possibility of me being his high voter, because I hate the stupid asshole so much of the time. I never imagined I'd end up as the board's token fucking Hunter shill, but here we are. Clive Myers I find OK, I like his early happy go lucky babyface stuff. There's that great match vs...Steve Grey isn't it? Ambivalent on later kung fu stuff. I can't come up with a picture of Zoltan Boscik so I might not have seen a match of his. If I have it was years ago and I don't remember it. You're not going to get anywhere with me with old lucha maestro style guys. Can't get into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 You should replace him with Catweazle but for some reason no one nominated him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Navarro is more like the world's most pissed off Yul Brenner than the other old Maestro guys (Though he has some matches like that too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I wonder if HHH would make my top 600 of the nominees. Might be worth exploring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I wonder if HHH would make my top 600 of the nominees. Might be worth exploring Would you rank him over Mr. Electricity Steve Regal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 He's my number 100. I couldn't leave him off because I do like a lot of specific things about his career, but the overall legacy he has of doing a bunch of stuff I don't like means I couldn't actually rank him above anyone on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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