The Thread Killer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 A couple of months ago, somebody started a thread in the Modern WWE folder entitled: "Dean Ambrose: Am I Missing Something?" the gist of which was that they didn't see the big deal about Ambrose, or why other people thought he was a big deal. Last night, due to severe boredom, I watch parts of RAW. Honestly, I couldn't sit through the whole thing, but I watched parts. The Dean Ambrose thread came to mind...but not because of Dean Ambrose, for two other reasons. Firstly - and I hate myself for writing this, since it makes me look like I am agreeing with two people I can't stand, and who can't stand each other, namely Jim Cornette and Vince Russo - but I do NOT get the deal with Kevin Owens. I'm a fat guy, so this isn't fat shaming, trust me. But he just doesn't LOOK like a wrestler. Actually scratch that, aside from the horrible beard and bad skin, he looks like a jobber from the early seventies. Seriously, what the hell? He wears women's leggings covered by goofy looking basketball shorts, and a sleeveless t-shirt. His ring gear is terrible. He has bad acne, and the beard of a homeless man. And as I said, not to be a fat shamer, but dude is pretty damn fat. He's got himself a beer belly there. Chris Hero gets released for his, Kevin gets called up. His promos are for SHIT. Can he wrestle? Absolutely, but nowhere near well enough to make up for his shortcomings. I didn't mind him in Ring of Honor. I loved his team with El Generico, and their feud with The Briscoes. I was there ringside in July 2008 when he fought Nigel McGuiness for the ROH World Title in Toronto. That was ROH. I am not totally unaware of his abilities, but I don't see why people think he's anything special or deserves any sort of special attention in the big time. Am I missing something? Which brings me to act #2. The New Day. For MONTHS I have been hearing about how great these guys are, and how the Dudleys had better not be coming back to beat them, because the Duds suck and are stuck in the 90's while The New Day are the only fresh act on the roster and blah blah blah blah blah. Seriously...WTF? They're annoying as HELL. They dance around, act like idiots, and Consequences Creed plays a damn trombone which is annoying as shit. They're an updated Edge and Christian. With dildo headbands. Big deal and whoop-de-freaking-do. What am I missing with THESE guys? Feel free to answer me, in all sincerity. Tell me what I'm missing, and if you have a "Am I Missing Something" act of your own, feel free to throw that in to this thread too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I hardly watch anything other than the big shows, but it seems to me that New Day have been stripped down to almost a parody of themselves in the last few months or so and have lost their edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 They're an easy 10 minutes to go do something else. Count on it every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I like The New Day's act, though less than others, but they're my least-favorite working tag champs in years, throwing out the NAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I heard the buzz about New Day as well so I've been firing up the DVR to catch their segments on Raw. I have yet to get through an entire New Day match or segment without attempting to hurl my television out the window in a fit of rage. My God are they awful. Just an embarrassment to all of wrestling. However, I give WWE a pass on New Day because I don't think their target demographic with the act is people like me (cranky, 34-year-old white dudes who miss the days of Tully vs. Magnum shoving a microphone in each other's faces saying "I Quit"). If "the kids" or the younger hipster crowd digs New Day, more power to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 New Day is going through what happens to a lot of acts that catch on organically and then the heads take notice. They start ramping up the idiosyncrasies that work best in smaller doses as part of the whole act until it basically becomes the only thing the act does. It's not usually a good thing for the long term health of the act when this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 New Day is an embarrassment not far from DX. But y'know I hate modern wrestling and everything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Kevin Owens is a real heel in an era where real heels don't exist. He's dismissive, trash-talking and full of himself, and his personality also shines through in his ring work. If Kevin Owens turned babyface, he'd have to change up a lot of his in-ring mannerisms, and there are plenty of guys around now that I think would pretty much work the same bell-to-bell whether they turned or not. His look doesn't bug me because it's not like he's out of shape, or that he has trouble keeping up with those around him. I think fans care too much about look in general anyway. If anything, it's a plus because he doesn't look like everyone else. He's far from a perfect wrestler, and it bugs me that he seems to get these long showcases against Dolph Ziggler or Neville or whoever else regularly and none of the matches ever go into "Holy cow!" territory. But he does carry himself as a superstar, and he does have some strengths that are harder to find in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 His quality is arguably very relative, but it is refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 New Day jumped the shark when they started the unicorn shit. They were really entertaining early in their heel run, and have been more misses than hits since. I still think Big E is one of the few young guys they have with legitimate main event potential. Yeah KO doesn't look like a body builder. I could personally give a shit less he's one of the most entertaining guys they have, and he most certainly isn't a bad promo. These days looking like you were chiseled out of stone really doesn't get you anywhere with the WWE audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 New Day worked best when they were at the point of subtle parody, mocking the idea of the "happy smiling black guys" openly and trolling the hell out of the crowds. That was when they got over: when people got "in" on the joke. Since then, as Boricua pointed out, they've been homogenized in the typical WWE sense. Why, in an era where subtle character development is all the rage with the hottest television programs, this is the case can be laid at one person's feet. Owens, as Loss stated, is a legitimate heel in an era where those are few and far between. He has his fans, but they're his fans because he's so damn good at being a dickhead that it's a reaction do quality. His look has never been his selling point, or even his work (which I'm much higher on than most here), but it's the passion that he exudes with every punch and every ounce of shit-talk. Knowing that he worked so hard to get to this point, overcoming several bookers who didn't want him to be the success that he is (IWS and PWG were the only companies to give him the full ball without argument), his look has actually aided him to this point. He looks like a jobber but then brutalizes people, negating his lack of a superstar appearance. His working style, though, has been sanitized and gentrified by WWE. As I've said on other boards, only WWE can take one of my favorite talents and make them boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't find that WWE has sanitized Owens' in-ring work. My complaints about it are pretty much the same as they were when he was in the indies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't find that WWE has sanitized Owens' in-ring work. My complaints about it are pretty much the same as they were when he was in the indies. Just a spot worker from what I've seen. Total spot monkey. And it seems to have infected John Cena's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't find that WWE has sanitized Owens' in-ring work. My complaints about it are pretty much the same as they were when he was in the indies. Just a spot worker from what I've seen. Total spot monkey. And it seems to have infected John Cena's work. Yep, pretty much. Which is a shame, because as Loss said, he really is gifted at projecting his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 My only real problem with Owens is that I don't think his look works. I usually hate the phrasing of "too indy" used as a complaint about people working in the WWE, but for once I think it fits. He looks exactly like someone from the crowd got in the ring, especially in his "gear" which is just normal clothing. His physical shape doesn't help, but he could get around that with good gear; instead, his shit looks terrible. And that "he's one of the people" thing CAN work, the Sandman is one example; but Owens is a heel. It sends a subtle signal to all the guys in the audience who look like him that they're wrong to look like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 My only real problem with Owens is that I don't think his look works. I usually hate the phrasing of "too indy" used as a complaint about people working in the WWE, but for once I think it fits. He looks exactly like someone from the crowd got in the ring, especially in his "gear" which is just normal clothing. His physical shape doesn't help, but he could get around that with good gear; instead, his shit looks terrible. yeah, basically this. the gym shorts in particular are the turn-off for me, makes him seem like some random dude at your local gym's pickup basketball game. and ya, New Day is one of those acts that shows a clear generational divide. they're *easily* the biggest reason my wrestling-watching friends still tune into RAW at all. offbeat shenanigans are the cool thing these days yo~ EDIT: i think the appeal of these guys (and Ambrose, et al.) may tie into something larger. specifically, whether you got into wrestling before it became purely a nerd fandom. we have a whole generation now who has never experienced it as anything but that, with Jimmy Redman probably being this board's most prolific example. basically, to a lot of people, wrestling is more Star Trek or Doctor Who than the NFL, and that means goofier or nerdier guys will have a lot more appeal. i think of anarchistxx's post in one of the recent WWE threads, where they kept going on about how Reigns comes off as a real star and the other guys are indie geeks. a crucial point that misses is that the crowd themselves are geeks nowadays; of course they'll connect a lot more with people they see as "one of us"! i will once again go back to Cody Rhodes saying "the fans don't want to root for a Clark Gable anymore, they want to root for a Seth Rogen". most people here were raised on Clark Gables and John Waynes, but that shit is passe to twentysomethings. that's really at the heart of these kinds of arguments, i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not sure Kevin Owens is a 'true' heel to be honest. Nearly all his matches are 'workrate' orientated, for lack of a better term - the pseudo smart live audience that attends WWE shows tends to love loose, structureless, bomb filled indie type matches, which works against him. A true heel to those fans would work like Jimmy Rave in 2005, all rest holds and boring tropes. I've never heard him get a genuine, massive heel reaction. That is without even getting to his awful look. He has no charisma either, no presence - the epitome of the current unnatural WWE worker who looks like they are playing at being wrestlers. They have the right mannerisms, are solid in the ring, it's just something feels really off. I can't get invested in anything he does. I find the New Day horrendous, but I've never really gone for that goofy, quirky, over the top humor they bring. Just annoying to me. My WWE tastes rarely align with modern smart fans though. All the people who have come up from NXT with massive fanfare in the last few years have sucked to me. Everyone works solid, long matches in the company these days, so the people who stand out are no longer the traditional good workers - they are instead the people with presence, energy, who seem natural and believable and you can invest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Funkdoc, I don't think it's generational to do with New Day in terms of demographics. By which I mean not everyone here over the age of thirty is a beer-swilling NFL jock type (hi Pete!), some of us are pretty squarely in the "geek" sector. I wear tweed and host a podcast about Japanese wrestling in which I put beds of 80s NES games under us talking. And I host it with a guy who is ... Hi Steven. I just think it's more that those guys who dig New Day now will look back in five or six years and shudder. Much like some of us guys possibly shudder looking back on Attitude Era stuff now. So I guess less demographics, more just growing older in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 The idea that Owens' style "infected" Cena is laughable. Owens wasn't working that style in NXT. Cena was calling the match, Cena is the company ace, and Cena worked a similar style finisher fest 2.9 match with the Rock. If Cena didn't like the style he wouldn't have worked it with 50 other guys. Owens' WWE work was far more interesting before he started wrestling Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I firmly believe New Day's issues are unrelated to generation or type but simply a matter of taste. I watch sports nonstop in addition to wrestling. My favorite author is Robert Caro. My favorite movies are Devil Wears Prada, Bad Boys 2 and Some Like It Hot. Taylor Swift belongs on the $10 bill. Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler who ever lived. Unless its Kenta Kobashi. And the New Day need to be off my TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't comment on New Day since I don't expect everything on the show to appeal to me. Unfortunately it looks like they are spreading with Social Outcasts. Trying to get people over by having them be intentionally awful isn't something that will keep me as a viewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Funkdoc, I don't think it's generational to do with New Day in terms of demographics. By which I mean not everyone here over the age of thirty is a beer-swilling NFL jock type (hi Pete!), some of us are pretty squarely in the "geek" sector. I wear tweed and host a podcast about Japanese wrestling in which I put beds of 80s NES games under us talking. And I host it with a guy who is ... Hi Steven. I just think it's more that those guys who dig New Day now will look back in five or six years and shudder. Much like some of us guys possibly shudder looking back on Attitude Era stuff now. So I guess less demographics, more just growing older in general. I love that anyone who spends time with me becomes a nerd by association! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not to "out" anyone, but I know Pete can geek it up with the best of them. If you want to talk about wrestling being geeky, being a fan in the early - mid 90s made you a freakin GEEK, without single shred of coolness. I miss those days sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I firmly believe New Day's issues are unrelated to generation or type but simply a matter of taste. I watch sports nonstop in addition to wrestling. My favorite author is Robert Caro. My favorite movies are Devil Wears Prada, Bad Boys 2 and Some Like It Hot. Taylor Swift belongs on the $10 bill. Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler who ever lived. Unless its Kenta Kobashi. And the New Day need to be off my TV. There can't be more than 10 people on the planet who'd list Caro as a favorite author and Devil Wears Prada as a favorite film. Big ups on that juxtaposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I firmly believe New Day's issues are unrelated to generation or type but simply a matter of taste. I watch sports nonstop in addition to wrestling. My favorite author is Robert Caro. My favorite movies are Devil Wears Prada, Bad Boys 2 and Some Like It Hot. Taylor Swift belongs on the $10 bill. Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler who ever lived. Unless its Kenta Kobashi. And the New Day need to be off my TV. There can't be more than 10 people on the planet who'd list Caro as a favorite author and Devil Wears Prada as a favorite film. Big ups on that juxtaposition. I list Caro as my favorite author and Slayer as my favorite band. That's gotta count for........something, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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