Reactions to the List: 100-51

[Matt D]

(I wouldn't want to see the Undertaker/Sid bodybag matches from 91 again, actually. I'd rather see the few good Angle matches over those. I have my limits).

[El McKell]

If you put Undertaker in a ten minute television match without any gimmicks or garbage, there is a good chance he will stink the place out. Angle is far more likely to have an intense, enjoyable sprint. Very versatile worker as well, meshed well with different types of opponent.

​If there's anything I learned from the 2012 Bound For Glory series it's that having 5-10 minute long Kurt Angle matches every couple of weeks is showing Kurt Angle at his worst. 5 minute attempts at epics complete with finisher kick outs against Magnus and Mr. Anderson are not 'enjoyable'

 

​That said overall I think Kurt Angle is an incredible performer and I had him at 11 on my list

[Matt D]

[JerryvonKramer]

Also, I am happy to say that i still have 66 soldiers remaining in the final 82 and two guys I didn't vote for (Breaks and Rose), I almost guarantee will be high on my list in the future.

 

I have 67 left and in good shape to take you and Grimmas to the cleaners.

[JerryvonKramer]

Warrior was pretty good at following directions. The only guy I can think of that's talented in the least who couldn't get a pretty good match out of Warrior at least once was Dibiase.

 

Ted did get good matches out of Warrior, it's just that the Tokyo one isn't very good.

 

The one from SNME in 1990 is better. One from Main Event IV isn't bad either. All better than the Japan match from the World Tour tape.

[Matt D]

I'm not a big fan of the SNME one. I'd need to see the Main Event one again. But I don't think it was all that hard to get a perfectly decent match out of Warrior by even 89 or so. He had a lot of raw tools that someone good could utilize and surprisingly for someone so nuts and potentially egotistical, didn't seem to have strong views about pro wrestling should be (as opposed to someone who thought that selling instead of hitting more spots was an absolute sin, for instance).

[JerryvonKramer]

The Tokyo match is only 6 minutes long, don't forget, and the Japanese fans laughed at Warrior. Ted has said it was the most embarrassed he's been in his whole career.

 

I cannot seem to find a date for the SNME match, and I'm wondering if it is the same as the Main Event IV match and just mislabeled in places.

[Matt D]

For everyone's sake, I'll promise not to say another word about Angle so long as he doesn't end up one slot over Buddy Rose or something insane like that. I just had to get it out of my system. It's out. I'm good. We're good.

[JerryvonKramer]

Okay, Main Event is 10/30/90 and SNME is 11/23/90.

 

Neither of those matches are more than about ***1/2, but they aren't bad in my view. Go about ten mins. Remember also that Warrior was a total stiff.

[benjaminkicks]

Man, I had Taker somewhere on the back half of my ballot because, despite all the shit he's been involved with throughout the years (and there's been a lot, no doubt), I'm still a big fan of his high end stuff and figured that was enough to get him a spot on my ballot.

 

But now I'm kinda regretting giving him that vote at all, because the idea of him higher than Tanahashi (who I had in my top 20) is kinda repulsive to me.

 

Hogan and Angle higher than them both is even worse.

[Grimmas]

I for one love Taker beating Tanahashi.

[Moonsault Marvin]

Okay, Main Event is 10/30/90 and SNME is 11/23/90.

 

Neither of those matches are more than about ***1/2, but they aren't bad in my view. Go about ten mins. Remember also that Warrior was a total stiff.

 

I think those are the same match. Ted mistimed the Japan match and they called time on him. Ted always claims he didn't get any offense, but his heat section takes a good bit of the match.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Okay, Main Event is 10/30/90 and SNME is 11/23/90.

 

Neither of those matches are more than about ***1/2, but they aren't bad in my view. Go about ten mins. Remember also that Warrior was a total stiff.

 

I think those are the same match. Ted mistimed the Japan match and they called time on him. Ted always claims he didn't get any offense, but his heat section takes a good bit of the match.

 

 

Well I'll be, so they are!!! Looks like taping was 10/30/90 aired 11/23/90 in the SNME slot but as Main Event IV? What's the deal with this?

 

Turns out that the only two times Ted and Warrior had a singles match on tape are this and Tokyo Wrestling Summit.

[DR Ackermann]

 

I'm no Undertaker supporter but he got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior.

 

When? I'd love to see that :-)

I'm not a basher of either. At all. But the body bag matches between them were... awful

 

 

You might not like it... It was a bodybag match from an MSG show in July of 1991. For what it is and whose in it, its way better than I expected it to be.

[pol]

For all the praise of Angle's mechanics, his execution always reminds me of the knock on Daniels; too polished, to the point where it feels sterile. Dude sure had a motor though.

[bestintheworld3589]

 

If you put Undertaker in a ten minute television match without any gimmicks or garbage, there is a good chance he will stink the place out. Angle is far more likely to have an intense, enjoyable sprint. Very versatile worker as well, meshed well with different types of opponent.

​If there's anything I learned from the 2012 Bound For Glory series it's that having 5-10 minute long Kurt Angle matches every couple of weeks is showing Kurt Angle at his worst. 5 minute attempts at epics complete with finisher kick outs against Magnus and Mr. Anderson are not 'enjoyable'

 

​That said overall I think Kurt Angle is an incredible performer and I had him at 11 on my list

 

Thank God I won't be the highest Angle vote on top of being the highest Taker vote.

[El-P]

For all the praise of Angle's mechanics, his execution always reminds me of the knock on Daniels; too polished, to the point where it feels sterile. Dude sure had a motor though.

 

The knocks of Daniels for working too smooth are ridiculous. There's nothing as too polished. It's what you do with it that matters. Angle was not too polished either, his german suplexes looked like crap because of the flat back bump WWE rule. And his punches looked even worse than The Rock's. But he sure worked too fast, which made stuff sterile at times. Wait, as Angle dropped yet ?

[Danish Dynamite]

 

 

I'm no Undertaker supporter but he got a good match out of Ultimate Warrior.

 

When? I'd love to see that :-)

I'm not a basher of either. At all. But the body bag matches between them were... awful

 

 

You might not like it... It was a bodybag match from an MSG show in July of 1991. For what it is and whose in it, its way better than I expected it to be.

 

 

I've seen that one :-) ... Nope, didn't like it. But I actually agree with you partly. 'Cause it's bad, but still better than I would expect :-)

[Death From Above]

What a fascinating group of people to go down today.

 

Wrestling is everything.

[Lee Casebolt]

I for one love Taker beating Tanahashi.

 

Same. I had Taker somewhere in my bottom 20. I never even considered Tanahashi.

[JKWebb]

Last night I had the thought that while the influx of voters may have created some results that aren't necessarily representative of the views of many at PWO (Angle's high ranking, for instance), it may end up being sort of a blessing. This list will get sent around, and if it was just all of our favorites, it might get dismissed out of hand. Now that it has some great showings by both the widely accepted "greatest ever" and by some PWO favorites, it might lead to people genuinely looking in to wrestler's they might not have before. Like, I think someone may see this list and check out Virus, or Sangre Chicana, because they are surrounded in ranking by more popular, mainstream choices. That's a potentially really cool happy accident.

That's a great way to look at it... I agree!

[goc]

If you put Undertaker in a ten minute television match without any gimmicks or garbage, there is a good chance he will stink the place out. Angle is far more likely to have an intense, enjoyable sprint. Very versatile worker as well, meshed well with different types of opponent.

The Festus match proves you wrong. And Angle would have probably had the Festus doing ankle lock reversals and other really stupid shit.

[Matt D]

 

Last night I had the thought that while the influx of voters may have created some results that aren't necessarily representative of the views of many at PWO (Angle's high ranking, for instance), it may end up being sort of a blessing. This list will get sent around, and if it was just all of our favorites, it might get dismissed out of hand. Now that it has some great showings by both the widely accepted "greatest ever" and by some PWO favorites, it might lead to people genuinely looking in to wrestler's they might not have before. Like, I think someone may see this list and check out Virus, or Sangre Chicana, because they are surrounded in ranking by more popular, mainstream choices. That's a potentially really cool happy accident.

That's a great way to look at it... I agree!

It'll also confuse people way more than one without such wrestlers, admittedly. How do you even begin to dismiss this juggernaut of contradiction?

[The Russian Daydream]

Well, since I last checked in, I've dropped Onita, Tanahashi, Undertaker and Piper.

 

I'm surprised that Piper isn't higher. Although he doesn't have a huge catalogue of great matches, he has a career full of great moments. He's easily one of the most memorable wrestlers ever who rarely failed to be entertaining.

 

I'm glad Onita made the top 100. Most of his case seems to be based on the FMW stuff, and undoubtably he was great there. Few wrestlers had such a huge flare for the dramatic as Onita. He was so good at building anticipation and tension. What a mesmerising worker he was during this period. I think, however, he does not get enough credit for his earlier career. Although people talk about the Memphis concession stand brawl, I don't hear much about his All Japan junior heavyweight work. Although he wasn't as smart a worker as he would become, his work felt so frantic and dynamic which mad him really good fun to watch. I had him at 62 and feel I could justify having him higher.

 

As for the Undertaker, it's my view that he deserves credit for his character work in the first section of his run and for how he has reinvented himself repeatedly to remain over for such a long time. Yes, he has had a lot of terrible matches, but he's had a lot of surprisingly good ones too. He deserves a spot here.

[goc]

The shame with Angle is the wasted potential, here's an Olympic Gold medalist, compared widely to Jack Brisco and ... well, he never got close to being Jack Brisco. That's what it is with him, not that he was worse than actually crap wrestlers.

Watch this match and say that again. This is worse than any of the "self conscious epic" Taker Mania matches.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbtymd_tna-kurt-angle-vs-aj-styles_sport

 

http://www.smarknmark.com/5-star-roundtable/5-star-roundtable-6-kurt-angle-v-aj-styles-tna-impact

This match, is to me personally, what a pro wrestling match should be and look like. There was some incredible technical work at the beginning of this one, which is expected when it comes to these two extremely sound workers. We then are shot straight into a fifteen to twenty minute sequence of finisher, counter, finisher, counter, submission, transitions, just pro wrestling in its purist form.

Somehow they wrote than IN PRAISE of this fucking terrible match.