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Grimmas

Reactions to the List: 25-11

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And yet... I feel this is very much a case where the holistic view of Windham and his skill set doesn't match with his output especially in terms of longevity. I mean I love Barry like soooo much and even I'm wondering if he's ranked too high in the position of 25.

I agree with everything said here.

See, I think the underachiever line has been stuck to Windham for so long that some people actually underrate his output. We have him looking great on tape as early as 1983. He has the outstanding 1986-88 peak and then another run nearly as good from 1990-93. And within those peaks, he shined in nearly every role you could imagine him occupying other than promotional ace. Honestly, can Bret or Savage better that? Can Austin?

I don't think comparing him to 3 guys who are also getting ranked way too high and who are some of the clearest evidence of the lists's mainstream US slant does much to help him.

 

Windham is overrated as hell. I don't think there's any worker out there who gets the same free pass for disappointing performances and being shit for long portions of his career as Windham. How many other top 25 candidates are there with big matches from their prime as bad as the Muta match at Superbrawl? Looking past the Flair matches his 80's resume is also surprisingly thin and his good 90's work is more fun midcard stuff than it his all-time great level stuff.

 

I think it's a given that he's not better than Santo and Akiyama but I don't even see an argument for him being better than JCP contemporaries Morton and Eaton, both of whom destroy him in output and longevity.

 

 

I agree about Santo and Akiyama. You could add Satanico, Fujiwara, Choshu and Dandy to the list of guys who blew Windham away. But I voted Barry higher than Morton or Eaton because he demonstrated more range. Do I think Morton or Eaton could have produced great singles runs? Absolutely. Did they actually do it? Not really. Whereas Barry's tag resume is right up there with the best.

 

And we'll just have to disagree about Windham not looking like an all-time great during his peak runs.

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Hashimoto (along with Satanico) is my favourite discovery coming out of this project. It was such a relief to come across a Japanese main eventer that made use of facial expressions, had genuine intensity, didn't stick rigidly to 'stoic'. At #15 he's my second highest Jap male.

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It was such a relief to come across a Japanese main eventer that made use of facial expressions, had genuine intensity, didn't stick rigidly to 'stoic'.

 

Oh please.

 

I love Hash but to suggest he was the only Japanese main eventer (or one of two?) who demonstrated those qualities is absurd.

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Hashimoto. Another member of my top ten down. I'm not upset that he's not higher or anything. Making the top 25 in a broad poll like this is a big accomplishment. Still, if you can name 20 wrestlers better than Hashimoto, my gut instinct is that you're full of shit.

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I'm more interested in viewing this list as a case of stock going up, stock going down.

 

Yep, me too. That's why the idea of a Top 100 list every ten years until I drop dead is kinda appealing to me.

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Hashimoto finishing this low is the most annoying result thus far. Don't love where the Dragon Gate guys finished but I expected it, can't stand where Windham ended up and the Hart placement will annoy me, but Hash is a Top 10-15 guy. He's the second guy from my Top 10 to fall. Insane output for 12 (?) years. Best big match wrestler ever. Masterful seller. He was my #8.

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Hash I had at #37, but he's a guy that like...that's where he is at this period of time for me, and if I'd have watched another dozen matches he could have been higher, because I like him a lot.

 

He blows away a guy like Bret, or fucking Barry Windham for that matter.

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Hash basically held his spot from '06, same as Taue. There was a big point jump from Windham at 25 to Austin and Hash at 24 and 23. So if you're looking at it in terms of tiers, that was a dividing line. It's sort of amazing that 32 hardcore wrestling fans couldn't find a place for Shinya Hashimoto, but so it goes.

 

It's perhaps more than Arn is moving up at least a dozen places while Hash moves up one, and Arn passes him in the process.

 

It's a bit odd, as Hash is one of the few puroresu guys who seemed bulletproof from criticism in the current round. Tenryu might be the other, but folks do like to take shots at his sloppiness. Hash is also pretty much the non-AJPW standard bearer in his era for this round of GWE, similar to Fujinami in the prior era. We're seeing Fujinami move up 36-and-counting spots. Would have thought Hash would easily gain those four spots to get in the Top 20, especially after Takada & Kid ahead of him fell early, and then Hokuto, Kong, Race & Benoit followed.

 

Hash standing still is one of the more surprising things so far.

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I can take solace for Hash in my mini-game of "best tag match between four consecutive workers" being Austin/Windham-Hash/Taue, at least. That's a fucking wild match.

 

And the six-man of Austin/Eaton/Windham-Akiyama/Hashimoto/Taue is even better.

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I have no idea where it's from or who the artist is. I am pretty sure I saved it to my drive ages ago out of one of DVDVR's photos of the month thread but that must have been well over a year ago.

Google has a great feature at images.google.com that you can do a photo search based on the photo itself. Either uploading it or using a link to the image. Helps for finding the name to stuff like this

http://robschamberger.tumblr.com/post/64582702172/acrylic-on-24-x-24-wood-shinya-hashimoto-was-on

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A fair placing for Hash and it's very telling he actually moved up despite the change in the type of wrestling that dominates the top 50 from 2006 to 2016. He will always be too low for me but oh well.

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I'm not 100% sure I've heard an exceptionally solid defense of Bret yet, and that's including my own.

My podcast with Tim.

 

 

By the way, that was just the hardest reveal I had to do yet. The 4 people who considered lucha and did not vote for Casas are insane

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At least he went up 16 places. Lucha did better this time compared to 2006, that is one thing we can be happy about.

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Casas falls and Trump wins.

 

In 2026 I'm going with my gut and not rating any of the AJPW guys other than Akiyama and Taue.

 

Bret will never recover for me. Poor man's Jim Brunzell.

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I'm not 100% sure I've heard an exceptionally solid defense of Bret yet, and that's including my own.

My podcast with Tim.

 

 

By the way, that was just the hardest reveal I had to do yet. The 4 people who considered lucha and did not vote for Casas are insane

 

 

He said solid ;)

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If you didn't vote for Casas, your ballot was a failure. Simple as that. I'm not even going to get in to him being lower than Bret and Regal and some others because I'll just get more and more angry. Like Breaks, Casas is one of the most universal performers in history. To not rank him is unfathomable to me. I honestly feel like if you don't like or understand Casas, you don't actually like or understand pro wrestling.

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I said exceptionally solid.

 

I worded that more carefully than I did my defense of Bret.

 

Man, I hoped Casas would make it to the top 20 but I'm glad that lots of people discovered him and enjoyed him so thoroughly. I just hope Bock doesn't drop next.

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Well, shit. There goes my #3 (Casas). Hashimoto was my #9.

 

I love Regal, but I'm stunned he's still standing. I'm not necessarily stunned that Bret is, but it's, like, whatever.

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Very disappointed that Casas did not even make the top 20. I had him Nr. 3 and seriously considered to put him in my Nr 1 slot. When it comes to consistency over an extended period of time Casas blows everyone else out of the water easily. The fact that he is still one of the top 10 wrestler in the world this year is mindblowing. At this point I am convinced that La Pesta Negra is a shoot and they performed some dark magic ritual that has stopped him from aging.

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