[GWE] PWO, The GWE, and Me

[goc]

I feel strongly about defending the entire voter base. I felt to an extent that they were really sucker punched as the reveal process was going on. I didn't like that.

You say this now because the "correct" #1 was found to be Ric Flair but you were hand wringing for months on here and twitter about how people weren't taking it "seriously" enough and were worried people were trying to be trendy or "cute" with certain picks. I feel like this comment is pretty disingenuous.

[Matt D]

There's that entire Undertaker thing.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

I feel strongly about defending the entire voter base. I felt to an extent that they were really sucker punched as the reveal process was going on. I didn't like that.

 

You say this now because the "correct" #1 was found to be Ric Flair but you were hand wringing for months on here and twitter about how people weren't taking it "seriously" enough and were worried people were trying to be trendy or "cute" with certain picks. I feel like this comment is pretty disingenuous.

It isn't disingenuous at all. I argued at the start of the process for standards, and for a smaller number of ballots of guys who would take it seriously, everyone called me an asshole.

 

After that I got on board with the idea of it being more all-inclusive, and made peace with it. I said then, "these results probably won't mean that much, it is what it is". But I got on board with it and strongly encouraged everyone to vote.

 

What I don't like is people being encouraged to vote and then getting told off.

 

The Taker stuff also was so clearly just a joke, that being brought out as some strike against me after some of the shit that went down is pretty laughable.

 

I should also mention that I take the post from goc as a real personal insult and slight, but then I've come to except personal attacks from him, so there it is.

[Matt D]

I think there's something to the Taker thing, if for no other reason, than because of the environment at the time that it dropped, after the HHH stuff that already alienated people. It was a lightly intended joke that dropped to partially make fun of an already battered and frustrated crowd (and i say this fully admitting that I could have been more receptive and less emotionally engaged in a negative manner, even before the Buddy Rose stuff). In a vacuum, I could absolutely see it being light-hearted and I doubt anyone would see it as otherwise. In that moment, though? After what had happened? Considering that many of the HHH voters also voted for Taker? it maybe showed a lack of empathy? I don't think your intent was malicious, though.

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh right, I'm the bad guy, fine. Move on.

[Matt D]

I admitted that I was, in fact, the bad guy there as well, Parv. So at least you're in good company.

[Ricky Jackson]

I think we are getting close to the time where the GWE forum should be made read only and everyone starts moving on with their lives and start new journeys. I'm willing to guide anyone through 70s WWWF

[goodhelmet]

Not yet. It's still fresh in the.minds of people with other possible avenues to explore. Soon though.

[Benbeeach]

I said a year and a half ago...I don't know how much stock I can put into a person's list, who has never seen Misawa, or simply "didn't get it." I respect that every person is in a different place in their fandom, but there was no penalty for not voting. Like it was reiterated earlier, if Randy Savage was major homework for someone (this can be defined a wide myriad of ways) then maybe they just shouldn't have participated.
It's not pleasant, and it might hurt alot of feelings of people who feel like their fandom is being seen as devalued, or inauthentic compared to others BUT if you and your list don't think that one of the 100 greatest workers ever was a luchador. It IS wrong.
If you don't think one of the 100 greatest wrestlers ever, was a woman, it IS wrong. The list goes on...
You can say where do you draw the line, and where does that line start and end? I don't know if anyone has the answer to that, but those are great lines of demarcation to start at.

There seems to be this grand hand holding over the last year or so of people trying to not step on toes, and I can understand people wanting more new users on the board and not wanting to alienate but dammit, when I started frequenting message boards almost a decade and a half ago, a lot of the time it was people schooling other people on just how much they DIDN'T KNOW, and showing them the way.

I think there's alot of "Well WHO ARE YOU to say what list is valid and what list isn't?" going around, and because wrestling and because subjectivity and because blah blah, there is no true way of knowing, but me side eying and berating a list that doesn't have idk El Hijo Del Santo on it, isn't a referendum, on me, and damn sure isn't one on Lucha. It's on the person who made that list. Because someone else doesn't see the greatness doesn't objectively mean they're wrong (yes it does) and I'm right (yes it does)

There's always going to be biases and blind spots, for everyone, in different areas, which in turn we'll look to sort of balance each other out. But i just can't buy that with two years, it could and should still just boil down to a favorites list. With a justified and I say that term loosely, "BUT IT'S MY LIST!" Call me curmudgeony, divisive, what have you, an old fossil from a bygone era of discourse (I'm only 25) but I do think there's some undeniable greatness in some workers, that can't be denied. For some it was obvious like Flair, for others, not so much.

I'm not against people voting on what they know, a mainstream pick, a contrarian pick, a whatever pick, because at the end of the day, all you know is all you know. I just would want people to do the work. Seek more footage.Whatever they think the work is, to have the best list possible. Do your own BIGLAV or whatever and figure it out. I know from this list people will watch more things from different promotions and workers and that's the benefit of it. But at the end of the day, if people aren't shredding some of the biases, nostalgia and favoritism, it feels...like a moot exercise. Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler ever. I know Kobashi and Misawa were far better workers. I would list them all accordingly. If your list isn't willing to do that with your favorites and non favorites alike then, what's the point I reckon?

I don't think KrisZ is alone in his thinking. I think there was alot more deviation from the mainstream than it sounds like given the results, but like other's have said, I think what we consider the mainstream of smarkdom has just sort of expanded. We've ran American imperialism into the ground, but I think it's safe to say alot of lucha is still on that periphery and not quite in the same place post 80s america and Japan are.

[goc]

 

 

I feel strongly about defending the entire voter base. I felt to an extent that they were really sucker punched as the reveal process was going on. I didn't like that.

You say this now because the "correct" #1 was found to be Ric Flair but you were hand wringing for months on here and twitter about how people weren't taking it "seriously" enough and were worried people were trying to be trendy or "cute" with certain picks. I feel like this comment is pretty disingenuous.

It isn't disingenuous at all. I argued at the start of the process for standards, and for a smaller number of ballots of guys who would take it seriously, everyone called me an asshole.

 

After that I got on board with the idea of it being more all-inclusive, and made peace with it. I said then, "these results probably won't mean that much, it is what it is". But I got on board with it and strongly encouraged everyone to vote.

 

What I don't like is people being encouraged to vote and then getting told off.

 

The Taker stuff also was so clearly just a joke, that being brought out as some strike against me after some of the shit that went down is pretty laughable.

 

I should also mention that I take the post from goc as a real personal insult and slight, but then I've come to except personal attacks from him, so there it is.

 

It was not a personal attack it was simply pointing out that what OJ was saying was not at really at all different from the stuff you said throughout the process including just a few weeks ago on twitter when i was arguing with you about it. I don't even know where the "I've come to expect personal attacks from him" thing comes from except you being overly sensitive when I joked about you being the #1 heel on PWO.

[TheU_2001]

The great thing about PWO is that it is ONLY about wrestling but it doesn't have to be ONLY about GWE. GWE is only one of the projects offered here. We have the yearbook projects, the microscope, podcast promotion, analysis of old Observers and tons of other bullshit to occupy our time. GWE has has the lion's share of talk lately (and deservedly so) but even when the list is a simple reference tool, PWO will keep chugging along with the next list or project that occupies our collective thirst for more wrestling discussion.

TRUTH!

[goodhelmet]

I said a year and a half ago...I don't know how much stock I can put into a person's list, who has never seen Misawa, or simply "didn't get it." I respect that every person is in a different place in their fandom, but there was no penalty for not voting. Like it was reiterated earlier, if Randy Savage was major homework for someone (this can be defined a wide myriad of ways) then maybe they just shouldn't have participated.

It's not pleasant, and it might hurt alot of feelings of people who feel like their fandom is being seen as devalued, or inauthentic compared to others BUT if you and your list don't think that one of the 100 greatest workers ever was a luchador. It IS wrong.

If you don't think one of the 100 greatest wrestlers ever, was a woman, it IS wrong. The list goes on...

You can say where do you draw the line, and where does that line start and end? I don't know if anyone has the answer to that, but those are great lines of demarcation to start at.

 

There seems to be this grand hand holding over the last year or so of people trying to not step on toes, and I can understand people wanting more new users on the board and not wanting to alienate but dammit, when I started frequenting message boards almost a decade and a half ago, a lot of the time it was people schooling other people on just how much they DIDN'T KNOW, and showing them the way.

 

I think there's alot of "Well WHO ARE YOU to say what list is valid and what list isn't?" going around, and because wrestling and because subjectivity and because blah blah, there is no true way of knowing, but me side eying and berating a list that doesn't have idk El Hijo Del Santo on it, isn't a referendum, on me, and damn sure isn't one on Lucha. It's on the person who made that list. Because someone else doesn't see the greatness doesn't objectively mean they're wrong (yes it does) and I'm right (yes it does)

 

There's always going to be biases and blind spots, for everyone, in different areas, which in turn we'll look to sort of balance each other out. But i just can't buy that with two years, it could and should still just boil down to a favorites list. With a justified and I say that term loosely, "BUT IT'S MY LIST!" Call me curmudgeony, divisive, what have you, an old fossil from a bygone era of discourse (I'm only 25) but I do think there's some undeniable greatness in some workers, that can't be denied. For some it was obvious like Flair, for others, not so much.

 

I'm not against people voting on what they know, a mainstream pick, a contrarian pick, a whatever pick, because at the end of the day, all you know is all you know. I just would want people to do the work. Seek more footage.Whatever they think the work is, to have the best list possible. Do your own BIGLAV or whatever and figure it out. I know from this list people will watch more things from different promotions and workers and that's the benefit of it. But at the end of the day, if people aren't shredding some of the biases, and favoritism, it feels...like a moot exercise. Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler ever. I know Kobashi and Misawa were far better workers. I would list them all accordingly. If your list isn't willing to do that with your favorites and non favorites alike then, what's the point I reckon?

 

But I don't think KrisZ is alone in his thinking. I think there was alot more deviation from the mainstream than it sounds like given the results, but like other's have said, I think what we consider the mainstream of smarkdom has just sort of expanded. We've ran American imperialism into the ground, but I think it's safe to say alot of lucha is still on that periphery and not quite in the same place post 80s america and Japan are.

You're wrong.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm just gonna bury the hatchet with goc cos life is too short. Carry on.

[TravJ1979]

There's still the tag team list

[Benbeeach]

 

I said a year and a half ago...I don't know how much stock I can put into a person's list, who has never seen Misawa, or simply "didn't get it." I respect that every person is in a different place in their fandom, but there was no penalty for not voting. Like it was reiterated earlier, if Randy Savage was major homework for someone (this can be defined a wide myriad of ways) then maybe they just shouldn't have participated.

It's not pleasant, and it might hurt alot of feelings of people who feel like their fandom is being seen as devalued, or inauthentic compared to others BUT if you and your list don't think that one of the 100 greatest workers ever was a luchador. It IS wrong.

If you don't think one of the 100 greatest wrestlers ever, was a woman, it IS wrong. The list goes on...

You can say where do you draw the line, and where does that line start and end? I don't know if anyone has the answer to that, but those are great lines of demarcation to start at.

 

There seems to be this grand hand holding over the last year or so of people trying to not step on toes, and I can understand people wanting more new users on the board and not wanting to alienate but dammit, when I started frequenting message boards almost a decade and a half ago, a lot of the time it was people schooling other people on just how much they DIDN'T KNOW, and showing them the way.

 

I think there's alot of "Well WHO ARE YOU to say what list is valid and what list isn't?" going around, and because wrestling and because subjectivity and because blah blah, there is no true way of knowing, but me side eying and berating a list that doesn't have idk El Hijo Del Santo on it, isn't a referendum, on me, and damn sure isn't one on Lucha. It's on the person who made that list. Because someone else doesn't see the greatness doesn't objectively mean they're wrong (yes it does) and I'm right (yes it does)

 

There's always going to be biases and blind spots, for everyone, in different areas, which in turn we'll look to sort of balance each other out. But i just can't buy that with two years, it could and should still just boil down to a favorites list. With a justified and I say that term loosely, "BUT IT'S MY LIST!" Call me curmudgeony, divisive, what have you, an old fossil from a bygone era of discourse (I'm only 25) but I do think there's some undeniable greatness in some workers, that can't be denied. For some it was obvious like Flair, for others, not so much.

 

I'm not against people voting on what they know, a mainstream pick, a contrarian pick, a whatever pick, because at the end of the day, all you know is all you know. I just would want people to do the work. Seek more footage.Whatever they think the work is, to have the best list possible. Do your own BIGLAV or whatever and figure it out. I know from this list people will watch more things from different promotions and workers and that's the benefit of it. But at the end of the day, if people aren't shredding some of the biases, and favoritism, it feels...like a moot exercise. Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler ever. I know Kobashi and Misawa were far better workers. I would list them all accordingly. If your list isn't willing to do that with your favorites and non favorites alike then, what's the point I reckon?

 

But I don't think KrisZ is alone in his thinking. I think there was alot more deviation from the mainstream than it sounds like given the results, but like other's have said, I think what we consider the mainstream of smarkdom has just sort of expanded. We've ran American imperialism into the ground, but I think it's safe to say alot of lucha is still on that periphery and not quite in the same place post 80s america and Japan are.

You're wrong.

 

If thinking Misawa Santo and Kobashi should belong on nearly every top 100 list, and that Lucha doesn't get watched or discussed with nearly the regularity or fervor American and Japanese wrestling do, then yeah . . . I'm wrong Will.

[JerryvonKramer]

Why should someone who doesn't really value Lucha as a style vote for Santo and rank him over a guy like, let's say, Rick Rude who they've loved for 20+ years?

 

Serious question.

 

Should they be force-fed Lucha until they tap out and give in?

 

GOTNW is just about the only guy who came out and said that he doesn't value US wrestling from the 1980s as a style. I think he was one of the three people who left Flair off his ballot.

 

I've come to accept that it's all cool. Imagine it was a music poll. Are you going to make the hip hop heads rank metal albums? Why would you do that?

 

Like I said in my essay, I think Will's point about valuing styles was the greatest insight of all in terms of process.

[Benbeeach]

I didn't say where and who Santo or a Kobashi or a toyota (if she'd even rank at all) should rank over. Just that they should rank in the 100. I liked the idea of the 150 someone else mentioned. Just seems like a more inclusive number. Harder to do perhaps, but would just represent this wide diaspora a little better.

That said, I'd answer a serious question with another question. And this is really stuff better reserved and discussed during the nomination period, and it was touched on quite a bit but whatever. What does not valuing Lucha as a style mean, exactly? The person finds it all to be rubbish and not..idk worthy of being discussed amongst the best wrestling, with the best wrestlers to ever exist? Is that what that means? Because I find that, to be rubbish. And again, maybe some less time ranking and more watching and reading and learning might be what's in order. Not to rule and cast down with an iron fist, I'm just one poster, one opinion, of no power nor significant value, just a suggestion.

I don't think someone has to be cubsfan or ditch to have a fair list to them and to the workers. But the sheer dismissal of entire genres, will always feel like too much. What one does and doesn't find great and what undeniably is are two different things. I know what board I'm at where what can be universal to a certain subsection, michaels, angle, bret to certain levels, can be broken down, thought critically of, and so on. But if you're not even willing to start down the path...

If someone in the nomination thread had a list of all the reasons they didn't think Negro Casas belonged in the top quarter of workers, I would have LOVED to read that. I would have listened to the terry taylor and Magnum TA over Casas argument. I would have laughed, and disagreed, but I would have engaged. But it didn't happen. If in the future people are going to leave off certain wrestler of a certain caliber, maybe it should, or maybe we should start watching more and/or giving other styles another chance.

But again, what do I know

[GOTNW]

There are people who didn't stay in a bubble of watching only certain types of wrestlng and simply don't have those issues. I cannot fathom how someone who viewed such an ambitious process as a chore yet insisted on completely devoting themself to it could participate in it. No, I'm not big on most 80s US stuff. I still had Bockwinkel, Lawler, Dundee etc. on my list. I tried to give everyone a fair shake and check out as much stuff as possible. It's just a list. Not as serious as it's been made out to be. Discovering new wrestling was fun. Figuring out what exactly I value the most in wrestlers was fun. DEAN's list was fun. I don't see much good coming out of proclaiming someone is objectively wrong for not including someone or anyone who didn't feel comfortable with their gaps and the journey to fill them voting to fit in.

[JerryvonKramer]

Let's say I don't value prog rock because I favour tight economy in song-writing and prefer stripped down styles of music. I don't want 20-minute epic tracks meandering all over the place. I want 3-minute tracks with strong melodies and catchy choruses. Just an example.

 

Should I have to rank King Crimson and early Genesis just cos all the prog fans rave about them? I don't value the style, so why would I when I've got Randy Newman waiting in the wings looking for a spot in the list?

[Loss]

No one has to rank anyone they don't want to rank, nor should they be expected to do so. That said, if you would at the very least check out people who your fellow posters seem to like, we sure would appreciate it, whether you decide it's your thing or not. I'm not comfortable pushing it farther than that.

[jdw]

 

 

The final list is a 100% fair aggregate of the community of PWO.

 

Not so sure that is the case. Perhaps the PWO of the future if a large number of the non-PWO voters stick around and become part of the community. But make up a list of all the #1 voters, and ponder how many aren't regular posters here (or haven't been outside of the GWE), along with all the ???, and there's a not insignificant number of folks who haven't been members of the community over the past 2 years, or 10 years.

 

Not saying that's a bad things. Will and Loss have talked about broadening the PWO community, and making it an inclusive site. This is smart as there are always some of us over the years who wander off, and you need to regularly put more water into the pool to make up for what comes out.

 

But it's not realistic to stretch it to be representative of what the community has been.

 

All the members of the PWO community that cared enough or could be bothered to vote, voted. Loss, and others that made the decision to let non-members vote was a good one. Otherwise, PWO would end up like the North Korea of all wrestling boards, toA.

 

I'd love for all of the non-members that voted to become members, possibly replacing those who are too elitist to be bothered with such things.

 

 

That's what I said, with the exception of the "too elitist" nonsense. I said it was a good/smart thing that Will and Charles opened up the vote.

 

I also said that in the end the list didn't represent what the PWO community was at the start of the project. But it could be representative of the PWO community if those new voters stick around, which also would be a good thing.

 

As far as voting, I've explained to anyone who has asked over the past two years why:

 

#1 - Time

 

I would rather watch things like Clippers vs Blazers, Spurs vs Thunder, Dubs vs Blazers, Drakes vs Pacers, United vs Leicester, City vs Sunderland, and Barca vs Betis this Fri-Sun. OJ up above talked about 3 hours a week. There's 16 hours from Friday night through Sunday night, plus chunks of the TNT post game shows, and the MSNBC EPL pre-game/post game shows, which takes that up over 20 hours.

 

Is it elitist that at the age of 50 that I'd rather watch 20 hours of sports on a weekend, a large chunk of it with friends, then pro wrestling which I obsessed about from the age of 20-40? Or spend another 20 hours on Mon-Thu also watching sports stuff, like prior NBA playoff games and post-game shows, Champions League, the NFL draft, Sports Center, etc? Kind of non-elitists, given the number of folks who watch sports in the country and around the world.

 

That doesn't even get into watching a Midsomer Murders movie, re-watching Cap 2 in advance of Cap 3 this coming weekend, going to a couple of school plays, etc.

 

It's a bit ironic the be tagged as an elitist for not having the time to devote to what is an elitist niche project and poll because I enjoy spending time on stuff that is mainstream Americana (or mainstream in other counties).

 

 

#2 - Lists

 

Dylan actually touched on being more list-loving in the 00s than he is now. I was past that point back at the time of the original GWE project, which I participated in some of the the discussions but skipped the ballot: I was more interested in the discussion than The List. I don't really care what number got placed next to Hansen. I cared more about what people were talking about with him. Same goes this time around. Don't really care where Hansen placed. I was/am more interested in Dylan (and others) talking about Hansen's matches with Colon, going and taking a look at them online, and seeing whether I was seeing things the same as they were (I did). When watching them, the concept of 6, 3, 7, 2 or 1 never was part of what I was thinking about. It was more on, "Damn this is a fun match", "Hansen is really good", and "Colon is better than his rep". Those are take aways that interest me more at this point, or things that folks toss out, rather than worrying about a number. Similar to not worrying about a star rating for those matches: don't care.

 

I was a big list guy in the 90s, and in the 80s, and in the 70s. I'm less so now, which has been the case for over a decade, especially in things that I've been hardcore about. Wrestling lists? More interested in discussion. Baseball lists? Much more interested in discussions.

 

The exception might be the all-time basketball list. The discussion on it was underdeveloped until the last decade. As it was getting a bit more developed, it overlapped with the careers of the likes of Duncan, Kobe & Lebron who would certainly end their careers high on the list, along with some other speculative potential high placers like Durrant and now Curry.

 

That "list" is fresher than say a baseball project, which has been bouncing around since I was a kid in the 70s, and then elevated to a higher level by folks like Bill James in the mid-80s (with the likes of the Historical Abstract). I actually was a bit bored by James' last "full" listing in the early 00s, and his more recent variations of lists (which he does in tournaments) haven't been less interesting in terms of results than in terms of discussion or comments of players.

 

So one is elitist for being bored of an elite baseball historian/number cruncher's lists? I kind of thing that's the opposite of what you're thinking.

 

The reality of this project, and this site, is that our niche within a niche within a niche *is* an Elite board and community. The 10K who show up at Raw tonight aren't spending their time on projects like this. If they're doing a list, they're knocking it off with less time that we here spend on a single candidate who ends up getting left off our lists. Folks who spend 2 years on a project like this are by definition hardcore elite fans. Which is bitching since we've all been hardcore like that at points in our lives, but you might to be a little more honest with yourself and look in the mirror to find the elitist.

 

 

I get that you have a bug up your ass about me. That's cool. But usually when you project nonsense like this on me, it ends up being just that: nonsense.

[GOTNW]

Wrestling also isn't nearly as diverse as music. Besides music is only ever talked about in PWO through the prism of rock and sometimes electronic/rap/jazz etc. I think jdw may have brought up classical composers like one time but that's about it. Comparing the two is also pretty wacky since I assume most members are musically illiterate.

[JerryvonKramer]

Wrestling also isn't nearly as diverse as music. Besides music is only ever talked about in PWO through the prism of rock and sometimes electronic/rap/jazz etc. I think jdw may have brought up classical composers like one time but that's about it. Comparing the two is also pretty wacky since I assume most members are musically illiterate.

What is your point here?

 

Is it that because wrestling is not as diverse as music, the analogy about styles doesn't hold?

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

 

 

 

The final list is a 100% fair aggregate of the community of PWO.

 

Not so sure that is the case. Perhaps the PWO of the future if a large number of the non-PWO voters stick around and become part of the community. But make up a list of all the #1 voters, and ponder how many aren't regular posters here (or haven't been outside of the GWE), along with all the ???, and there's a not insignificant number of folks who haven't been members of the community over the past 2 years, or 10 years.

 

Not saying that's a bad things. Will and Loss have talked about broadening the PWO community, and making it an inclusive site. This is smart as there are always some of us over the years who wander off, and you need to regularly put more water into the pool to make up for what comes out.

 

But it's not realistic to stretch it to be representative of what the community has been.

 

All the members of the PWO community that cared enough or could be bothered to vote, voted. Loss, and others that made the decision to let non-members vote was a good one. Otherwise, PWO would end up like the North Korea of all wrestling boards, toA.

 

I'd love for all of the non-members that voted to become members, possibly replacing those who are too elitist to be bothered with such things.

 

 

That's what I said, with the exception of the "too elitist" nonsense. I said it was a good/smart thing that Will and Charles opened up the vote.

 

I also said that in the end the list didn't represent what the PWO community was at the start of the project. But it could be representative of the PWO community if those new voters stick around, which also would be a good thing.

 

As far as voting, I've explained to anyone who has asked over the past two years why:

 

#1 - Time

 

I would rather watch things like Clippers vs Blazers, Spurs vs Thunder, Dubs vs Blazers, Drakes vs Pacers, United vs Leicester, City vs Sunderland, and Barca vs Betis this Fri-Sun. OJ up above talked about 3 hours a week. There's 16 hours from Friday night through Sunday night, plus chunks of the TNT post game shows, and the MSNBC EPL pre-game/post game shows, which takes that up over 20 hours.

 

 

 

 

NBA playoffs this year have been blah. You could've at least skipped that dreadful and pointless first round and participated in GWE for those two weeks

[GOTNW]

 

Wrestling also isn't nearly as diverse as music. Besides music is only ever talked about in PWO through the prism of rock and sometimes electronic/rap/jazz etc. I think jdw may have brought up classical composers like one time but that's about it. Comparing the two is also pretty wacky since I assume most members are musically illiterate.

What is your point here?

 

Is it that because wrestling is not as diverse as music, the analogy about styles doesn't hold?

 

My point is that if you're doing a greatest musician ever ballot and your list only includes popular acts from the past century your ballot is a joke.