Your most "Against The Grain" opinion on wrestling

[El-P]

Here's one for you : Enzo Amore & Cass are basically Kid Kash & Dallas doing a NAO routine, while Enzo is way worse than Kash was in 2004 (sloppy but decent at times) and Cass is about as good as Lance Hoyt at that time (Test wannabe).

[NintendoLogic]

Chops in general are stupid. Yes, they hurt. But it's not the kind of incapacitating pain that can end a match. They're the worst of both worlds: they hurt like hell and look like shit.

[sek69]

Chops like Flair, Steamboat, and Ronnie Garvin would throw where it was one at a time and looked like they were putting their all into it looked good. The whole "rapid fire chops" thing is what looks like crap no matter who's doing it.

 

No selling a hard chop like Hawk, Nikita, or Sting used to do was the highlight of badassery. Now you look like a geek if you sell one.

[Laz]

My enjoyment of Shinsuke Nakamura relies heavily on his opponent. I typically lose interest between when he gets to the ring and the finishing stretch.

[Matt D]

Chops like Flair, Steamboat, and Ronnie Garvin would throw where it was one at a time and looked like they were putting their all into it looked good. The whole "rapid fire chops" thing is what looks like crap no matter who's doing it.

 

No selling a hard chop like Hawk, Nikita, or Sting used to do was the highlight of badassery. Now you look like a geek if you sell one.

 

I liked Bryan's reaction during the CWC when he was going nuts over Ciampa chopping Gargano in the face. They sure made that one mean a lot.

[Migs]

And I won't appologize for being an RVD fan. I was 13 or 14 when ECW started airing in my area. It was my first exposure to anything nonWWF non WCW. It's why I'm a Taz fan too. I feel like had I never flipped to ECW on some channel buried deep in my cable package at 1 in the morning I never would have been exposed to any wrestling other than WWF and WCW. My fandom of RVD is not logical at all. He had that aura . I guess the closest guy to it now would be Pentagon Jr. Where he's just booked like the baddest man on the planet despite being in some rinky dink promotion. My love for RVD is like my love for Tommy Boy. I know Tommy Boy is a shitty movie that has no plot and the jokes are corny. But I won't let myself admit that on an emotional level because that movie was my favorite for such a large part of my childhood. I will defend my love of RVD matches and Chris Farley movies to the death.

 

There are definitely people who were the "right age" for ECW (mostly between 14 and 22) when they were first exposed to it that will always have a fonder appreciation for it than those older or younger. I was also 13 when I first saw ECW in 1996, and it was basically a synthesis of everything racing through my adolescent brain.

[AstroBoy]

Late to the party here but I like Kenny Omega.

[fxnj]

Chops in general are stupid. Yes, they hurt. But it's not the kind of incapacitating pain that can end a match. They're the worst of both worlds: they hurt like hell and look like shit.

There's a clip somewhere of Kobashi doing a chop to a civilian and the guy falls over after only one from the sheer force that Kobashi throws them at. There's plenty of uses for chops and chop exchanges besides ending a match such as a display of machismo, a sign of disrespect or respect, or just to set up for another move. Giving in depth analysis of the things workers use such moves for in specific instances is also a good argument in favor of serious wrestling criticism.

[funkdoc]

Late to the party here but I like Kenny Omega.

 

i feel like there's a particular group of acts that are hated here but get near-universal love from the rest of the internet, and Omega is right near the top of that bunch. see also: New Day, Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Tanahashi & Okada

[supremebve]

 

And I won't appologize for being an RVD fan. I was 13 or 14 when ECW started airing in my area. It was my first exposure to anything nonWWF non WCW. It's why I'm a Taz fan too. I feel like had I never flipped to ECW on some channel buried deep in my cable package at 1 in the morning I never would have been exposed to any wrestling other than WWF and WCW. My fandom of RVD is not logical at all. He had that aura . I guess the closest guy to it now would be Pentagon Jr. Where he's just booked like the baddest man on the planet despite being in some rinky dink promotion. My love for RVD is like my love for Tommy Boy. I know Tommy Boy is a shitty movie that has no plot and the jokes are corny. But I won't let myself admit that on an emotional level because that movie was my favorite for such a large part of my childhood. I will defend my love of RVD matches and Chris Farley movies to the death.

 

There are definitely people who were the "right age" for ECW (mostly between 14 and 22) when they were first exposed to it that will always have a fonder appreciation for it than those older or younger. I was also 13 when I first saw ECW in 1996, and it was basically a synthesis of everything racing through my adolescent brain.

 

Yeah, if you remember ECW RVD you probably have a different opinion of him than people who only know his WWE stuff. I don't know if I ever thought he was a great wrestler, but I was a huge fan of his when I was in high school. That flip dive from the top rope into the crowd is one of the more insane spots of all-time and he did it as a signature spot. Sabu may have been the most homicidal and genocidal wrestler in ECW, but that dive proved that RVD was the most suicidal wrestler on the roster. He was completely fearless and it was exciting to watch.

[Sidebottom]

RVD has to be a popular shout for lots of wrestlers themselves. Seth Rollins recently said he was a huge RVD fan growing up - I wonder how many of the 2002 - 2006 ROH / Indy circle loved him from 97 / 2001, were inspired by him, but will never fess up. I honestly can't put my finger on why this would be?

[El-P]

RVD was the most carryable awful worker (meaning his attributes could be mixed to get a spectacular match if you found the way like Jerry Lynn, Tracy Smothers or later Bob Holly did) , but an awful worker nonetheless. By the end of my ECW watch, I couldn't handle watching a minute of RVD anymore. And yeah, you can spot all those awful indy workers inspired by him. Seems like a nice enough guy though and quite idiosyncratic, which is why he was so popular too.

[Laz]

He was great because he was awful by traditional standards, if that makes sense.

[Matt D]

RVD is a tool. Stan Hansen is a better tool.

[Bierschwale]

I would never call him a bad wrestler in a million years, and he's certainly done plenty of things I've enjoyed....but I would be perfectly happy if I never saw Brock Lesnar wrestle again. He's good, to be sure, but I don't see him as the super-worker a lot of people seem to do, and the mystique surrounding him wore off for me a long time ago, so now he's mostly just another old part-timer who's job it is to make the rest of the roster seem unimportant to me, and I really didn't need another one of those.

 

I think of Brock as a gimmick match type at this point. Asking who's had the best "Brock Lesnar match" since his return is like asking "who's had the best WWE ladder match ever?".

[joeg]

I think Brock is the only guy right now who brings that big fight feel.

 

That's what I loved about ECW. Their top guy or top fued always was booked to bring a big fight feel ala Mike Tyson. hence my fondness for RVD.

[JerryvonKramer]

RVD is a tool.

[El-P]

RVD's finest moment. Sean Oliver's reaction never fail to crack me up.

 

[Sidebottom]

RVD's finest moment. Sean Oliver's reaction never fail to crack me up.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p0HkaCZ1fI

 

Van Dam did the exact same "Dixie Carter Eye" to imitate Perry Saturn in his 98(?) RF Video shoot. The one where he did a lot of it in character.

[El-P]

Dixie Carter has a funny eye ? Never noticed.

[The Russian Daydream]

There are definitely people who were the "right age" for ECW (mostly between 14 and 22) when they were first exposed to it that will always have a fonder appreciation for it than those older or younger. I was also 13 when I first saw ECW in 1996, and it was basically a synthesis of everything racing through my adolescent brain.

I completely agree with this, and relating to this and the Shane Douglas love from several pages back, I really really like the Douglas vs Pitbull 2 match from ECW's 'Dr Is In'.

 

I still have fun watching a bit of ECW now and again but find RVD's act far less enjoyable than I did in the late 90s. The Sandman on the other hand is still a riot.

 

As for the conversation earlier about Bobby Eaton being overrated, he just isn't. I feel that he's regarded as a fantastic wrestler but a crap promo. I regard that a pretty accurate rating.

[Sidebottom]

Dixie Carter has a funny eye ? Never noticed.

 

It's a bit funny, not hilarious. A 4/10 on the Jim Duggan scale.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

 

The mat-based stuff that NintendoLogic was referring to has more semblance to a real fight (or sport) than Michinoku Pro.

 

I disagree. A lot of it feels like a glorified exhibition.

 

So what does a non-exhibition style look like? What kind of standard bearer are you talking about?

[ohtani's jacket]

Isn't there a regular poster here at PWO who lives in Japan? Is it Ohtani's Jacket, or am I mistaken? Perhaps he could contribute to this point.

 

Yeah, I've lived in Japan for the past ten years. You can survive in Tokyo or any other major Japanese city without speaking Japanese but you'll find yourself heavily reliant on people who can speak English. Most Japanese people have broken English at best but there plenty of excellent speakers, particularly those who've studied abroad. Generally speaking, Japanese people who've lived abroad have better foreign language skills than foreigners living in Japan. That's out of necessity, I suppose. The same is true of non-English speaking migrants in Japan. Their Japanese is likely better than the average native English speaker. Having said that, I know quite a few native speakers who speak excellent Japanese (some of whom have passed the highest level on the Japanese proficiency test.)

 

I took a look at some YouTube clips of the Funks in Japan and Dory seemed to know a lot of expressions and phrases but didn't appear fluent to me. Terry didn't appear to speak much Japanese. Junior could definitely get by on a day-to-day basis but that's not really fluency.

[El-P]

What is your level in Japanese at this point Dan ?