Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard

[Bix]

Something else I noticed on the Bulldog show:

 

Either Conrad's research is suffering or he's feigning ignorance to make Bruce look all-knowing. It's very obvious that Conrad's timeline research (the skeleton of the sure that he fills out with newsletter and book blurbs) usually comes from going over results on Graham Cawthon's website. But this week, when they got to to the Davey-Owen dark match from the first In Your House show, Conrad was all "Why was this just a dark match?" even though it aired a few weeks later on Raw as a KOTR qualify match. Bruce then explained most of that. But this is how the pre-show dark matches for the first In Your House are listed (emphasis mine):

 

In Your House #1 - Syracuse, NY - On Center - May 14, 1995 (7,000; 3,500 paid)

Jean Pierre Lafitte pinned Bob Holly

Monday Night Raw - 6/5/95: KOTR Qualifying Match: Davey Boy Smith fought WWF Tag Team Champion Owen Hart (w/ Jim Cornette) to a 15-minute time limit draw as Owen had Smith down in a backslide

The Undertaker (w/ Paul Bearer) pinned Kama (w/ Ted Dibiase) with a chokeslam and the tombstone at 13:08 (In Your House)

Bam Bam Bigelow pinned Tatanka (w/ Ted Dibiase) with a sunset flip off the top at 8:50 after kneeing Tatanka as he charged into the corner (In Your House)

Knowing full well how Graham's site is formatted and considering how obvious it is how much Conrad uses it, that stuck out as strange.

 

Also, for what it's worth:

 

When Conrad got weirdly passive aggressive with me after I tweeted that the USA Today bit was pretty unacceptable (especially clipping it for YouTube and promoting it on social media with wording that stated factually that Dave went to USA Today to expose the business), he said in DMs to me that I "don't get it" because it has their and Dave's numbers up. He basically tried to counter an argument (that I was criticizing the general anti-Dave shtick or how they deal with the entertainment/fact divide in general) that I didn't actually make. Again, even if it's "just pro wrestling," going so deep into the "we hate FAKE NEWS" gimmick in the current climate is really uncomfortable. I had been considering doing an article about how that's become the "in" thing (see also: the Lawler stuff this past week), but the stupid Twitter stuff with Conrad will lead to grief from idiots who will say that's why I wrote it.

[El-P]

Yep, seems like the strong "argument" days and Conrad "standing up" for Meltz are over.

 

(see also: the Lawler stuff this past week), but the stupid Twitter stuff with Conrad will lead to grief from idiots who will say that's why I wrote it.

 

Sorry to ask, but what happened with Lawler ?

[The Thread Killer]

Sorry to ask, but what happened with Lawler ?

 

http://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone/news/956143-jerry-lawler-dave-meltzer

[El-P]

Thanks.

 

Man... The more Lawler opens his mouth these days, the worst this guy comes off.

[Victator]

Don't really see anything wrong with what he said there.

Him beating Bret for the title is news to me.

[El-P]

The Bulldog episode was okay, but nothing more. The whole "We're telling a story" excuse for every shitty/poor decision is getting old by now. The whole Bulldog debacle in England was particulary telling on that matter. They weren't telling any story with Bulldog getting screwed there since Micheals was gonna beat Bret too, and there was no plan for Bulldog ever to feud with Micheals at this point (we saw how well the Owen thing got after Bret left anyway, as well as how the Euro title got turned into a joke). Yeah, the entire "fake news/conspiracy theory" is getting in the way of the show being fun to listen too at points.

 

Plus, Conrad seemed actually kinda bored during half the show.

[Bix]

Don't really see anything wrong with what he said there.

 

Him beating Bret for the title is news to me.

Two reasons:

 

1. Glenn Moore sends press releases to wrestling sites with key quotes from the show each week, including the thing about the Greatest Royal Rumble payoffs for the women.

2. Dave consistently reported that none of the women on the roster had heard about that.

 

So not only did Lawler's co-host actively campaign for wrestling news sites to report on what he said about the women and the Saudi show, but the person that Lawler went off on for reporting on it by citing what he said DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO THAT.

 

It's ridiculous and goes way beyond "working."

[WingedEagle]

Anything worthwhile on the '92 Rumble episode?

[El-P]

Not really. The most interesting part is Bruce discussing the ending and the obvious Hogan debacle.

[WingedEagle]

Not really. The most interesting part is Bruce discussing the ending and the obvious Hogan debacle.

 

Thanks, perhaps will check it out if some others this week don't seem interesting, but doesn't seem like I need to go out of my way.

[The Thread Killer]

The Bulldog episode was okay, but nothing more. The whole "We're telling a story" excuse for every shitty/poor decision is getting old by now. The whole Bulldog debacle in England was particulary telling on that matter. They weren't telling any story with Bulldog getting screwed there since Micheals was gonna beat Bret too, and there was no plan for Bulldog ever to feud with Micheals at this point (we saw how well the Owen thing got after Bret left anyway, as well as how the Euro title got turned into a joke). Yeah, the entire "fake news/conspiracy theory" is getting in the way of the show being fun to listen too at points.

 

Plus, Conrad seemed actually kinda bored during half the show.

 

I had some spare time this week so I just listened to last week's show and I agree with you.

 

In the bigger picture, this show is really settling into a very predictable formula. Conrad reads something from the Observer or from somebody's book, and if Bruce doesn't agree with it he goes off in one of two directions. He either whines about Meltzer and how Meltzer has never booked a wrestling organization, OR we all just don't understand that they were "telling a story." Throw in some imitations, a bunch of shirt and live event plugs...and there's your episode.

 

The two examples El-P and Bix came up with from this past episode on the Bulldog are perfect examples.

 

Conrad recaps the "dog poop" match with Bulldog and Shamrock, and talks about Bret Hart's column where he took shots at Davey Boy for returning to the WWF. The obvious response would have been for Bruce to talk about Vince (either Vince) booking the disgusting and stupid angle or Bret being bitter and burying his own family in public. Instead, Bruce uses it as an opportunity to bitch about Meltzer. Again.

 

Then we get to the One Night Only match between Bulldog and Shawn...where Bulldog had been told he was going over, and had accordingly dedicated the match to his sister who was dying of cancer. Except Shawn wasn't doing jobs for Hart family members in 1997, so he went and got the finish changed at the 11th hour. Bret has claimed this, Davey Boy was apparently furious over this development...but according to Bruce we just don't understand "the story."

 

I think one of the problems is that Conrad is so busy that he no longer does his own research. The guy has his mortgage business to run, three podcasts to host and now he is running Starrcast. On top of that, he is doing the live shows with Bruce. So he admitted on Twitter a month or so back that he now uses a "researcher." I assume that means Conrad is just reading his questions off a format that he didn't write for himself, so when Bruce argues with him he can't respond as quickly (or at all) because he isn't the one who read the source material.

 

This week's episode was just okay, but we are starting to get rapidly diminishing returns here.

[The Thread Killer]

Also, for what it's worth:

 

When Conrad got weirdly passive aggressive with me after I tweeted that the USA Today bit was pretty unacceptable (especially clipping it for YouTube and promoting it on social media with wording that stated factually that Dave went to USA Today to expose the business), he said in DMs to me that I "don't get it" because it has their and Dave's numbers up. He basically tried to counter an argument (that I was criticizing the general anti-Dave shtick or how they deal with the entertainment/fact divide in general) that I didn't actually make.

 

I don't know how weird it really is, Bix. Conrad can go from passive-aggressive at best, to downright rude, snarky and insulting if you criticize him. I've seen several incidents of people who are new to the show tweeting him about one thing or another, (sometimes not even being critical) only to get a snappy response. Conrad does a great job playing the smiling, jolly, congenial good ole' boy who is "just a fan" but I think that might ironically be just a gimmick. Maybe he and Bruce have a lot more in common than is evident on the surface.

 

That's why I was pleasantly shocked when he responded politely to my email. I had anticipated a rude response and actually told him in the original email I was anticipating either no response or something snarky, but he surprised me. But in general, I don't think Conrad deals with criticism any better than Bruce does.

[sek69]

The mortgage industry might be the one business more carny than wrestling, wouldn't be suprised if Conrad is all gimmick.

[BrianB]

Thanks for sharing, The Thread Killer. I'm personally a fan of that type of "dark" humor so I still listen to WHW, but that's a good contrast to how Conrad sometimes comes off when criticism is thrown his way.

 

Like others, I think I'm moving into zone of listening to STWWBP when the topic seems good for the show. The formula is getting clearer in a way where you can see the strings, and I'm finding it less interesting while the rest of my podcast backlog builds up.

 

The Bulldog episode was okay, but nothing more. The whole "We're telling a story" excuse for every shitty/poor decision is getting old by now. The whole Bulldog debacle in England was particulary telling on that matter. They weren't telling any story with Bulldog getting screwed there since Micheals was gonna beat Bret too, and there was no plan for Bulldog ever to feud with Micheals at this point (we saw how well the Owen thing got after Bret left anyway, as well as how the Euro title got turned into a joke). Yeah, the entire "fake news/conspiracy theory" is getting in the way of the show being fun to listen too at points.

 

Plus, Conrad seemed actually kinda bored during half the show.

 

It's pretty pathetic, considering what's the payoff to this alleged story exactly? No rematch, being willing to let Davey go but not Owen after they fuck his brother over, and Shawn not wanting to do the job at WM14 for Austin, as even Bruce admitted on their show when he confirmed the Taker taped fists and Shawn's antics stories.

 

FWIW, I think Conrad has bitched about how Bruce's different gigs have changed their recording schedules, so he was more tired rather than bored during the Bulldog episode because of when they were recording it. I can buy that.

 

I'll throw a conspiracy theory out there. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody mentioned defamation to Bruce and/or Conrad around the recent Meltzer stuff, and so they're more cognizant of that. I don't think the Boss Man stuff was quite to that level, but it was a bit let's entertain fake news, and it seemed like they were aware of the lines not to cross on the Bulldog episode, and Bruce's lame defense was kind of about as combative as he could be while still staying in bounds.

[C.S.]

The Vince Russo episode of the Prichard show is easily the weakest one yet. It's shockingly boring. (WWE Network really was doing me a favor by not loading the show last night.)

 

I'll save you all the time and just recap what happened:

 

- Conrad reads something from Russo's book.

 

- Prichard responds with, "No, that was J.R.'s idea!"

 

And I'm not even a Vince Russo hater like so many of you - I see his many flaws - but his biggest attribute was that he had a story for everyone (which I was happy to see Prichard also credited him for) and you felt like you couldn't miss a single show. Contrast that with today where I don't even watch the weekly shows, only the PPVs, and I don't feel like I've missed a thing.

 

Conrad also kept plugging Russo's Realm Network, which I guess is his podcast or company, and that makes any "strife" between them feel like a work between two carnies. He was harder on Brutus "the fucking Barber" Beefcake and Virgil on previous shows than he was on Russo this week. Hell, he didn't even use his annoying "Bruce, who booked this shit?" catchphrase about any of Russo's WrestleCrap angles.

[BrianB]

If Conrad can somehow find the time, I think there's a decent chance he'd (foolishly) attempt a Russo podcast.

[Bix]

I'll throw a conspiracy theory out there. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody mentioned defamation to Bruce and/or Conrad around the recent Meltzer stuff, and so they're more cognizant of that. I don't think the Boss Man stuff was quite to that level, but it was a bit let's entertain fake news, and it seemed like they were aware of the lines not to cross on the Bulldog episode, and Bruce's lame defense was kind of about as combative as he could be while still staying in bounds.

I told Conrad in a Twitter DM that it was getting awfully close to defamation with the Dave thing in the Bossman episode and that he really needed to pull back for the sake of his show, so I can confirm that at least that part happened.

[SomethingSavage]

So apparently Jerry Jarrett was on Bowden's Kentucky Fried podcast, and he responded to Bruce's bullshit. Jerry basically said Bruce was the most miserable person he encountered during his time in New York. He said Prichard was practically just Pat Patterson's errand boy, who was bitter about having a short-lived failure of a gimmick.

 

Tremendous.

[Victator]

Well see I don't agree with Jerry about that last part. Brother Love was around for three years and was a big part of the TV, with big angles getting started during those segments. So Jerry is doing what Bruce was.

I think Russo giving everyone some sort of story was a detriment. Everyone doesn't need a story or gimmick, in particular if its a crappy gimmick and hurts a guys long term prospects. A guy like Shawn Stasiak (just as an example) had a good look and was a decent enough worker. A gimmick like "Meat" was only going to hurt him. He would be better off working the B shows with no gimmick than being seen with a gimmick like that.

Finally, is there a reason facts and entertainment cannot co exist?

[Beast]

Well see I don't agree with Jerry about that last part. Brother Love was around for three years and was a big part of the TV, with big angles getting started during those segments. So Jerry is doing what Bruce was.

 

I think Russo giving everyone some sort of story was a detriment. Everyone doesn't need a story or gimmick, in particular if its a crappy gimmick and hurts a guys long term prospects. A guy like Shawn Stasiak (just as an example) had a good look and was a decent enough worker. A gimmick like "Meat" was only going to hurt him. He would be better off working the B shows with no gimmick than being seen with a gimmick like that.

 

Finally, is there a reason facts and entertainment cannot co exist?

 

Not if people start to believe entertainment over the facts just because it's more entertaining.

[Victator]

No I meant why can't the show be entertaining and factually accurate?

[Zoo Enthusiast]

“When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”

[Cox]

The truth is often much more boring than the story, and less self serving.

[Victator]

The truth is less self serving, but I find more interesting.

I do get Conrad used "entertainment" as code for lying.

[Bix]

I listened to part of the WM7 episode yesterday while putting together a FOIA request (to see if they really asked the FBI for security help like Bruce said), and boy, the show sure has changed. It's a 180 from now in terms of Conrad being willing to confront his co-host/subject.