Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[Eduardo]

 

- In January 04', was it well known that Goldberg would not be re-signing? Is this why they take the title off of him in December 03' and, at least based on what is presented at the Rumble, don't really tie him in at all with Triple H (who he'd been feuding with) and give him the "Its Obvious He's Not Winning" position at #30?

 

It was pretty well known at the time that he wasn't happy and likely wouldn't be resigning.

 

 

- Going into the show, Benoit's gimmick is that he can't "win the big one" and is feuding with Paul Heyman. Seems like they were telegraphing his victory the whole show and for weeks prior. At the time, was it a given that he was winning or were there people that thought it could go to someone else? Who else was in the running? Cena?

 

I was expecting Benoit to win at the time. Meltzer was also reporting from Feb. and March of that year that it would be a triple threat ladder match with Michaels and HHH in recognition of the 10th anniversary of the Michaels-Ramon ladder match. Obviously the ladder match didn't happen.

 

 

- Immediately after the Rumble, like, the night of, was the expectation that Benoit would challenge Lesnar or was the 3-way expected?

 

I expected Benoit-Lesnar since Benoit's run to the Rumble started with him losing to Lesnar when he passed out from the Lesnar Lock.

 

 

- Speaking of Lesnar, when did his impending departure start getting publicized? Before No Way Out in February or after?

 

Difficult to remember honestly, I feel like it was around No Way Out, either a little before or little after when rumors and news came out about this.

 

 

- Finally, earlier in the show, Eddie Guerrero defeats Chavo clean and the crowd cheers and actually chants "Eddie!" at one point, but then, in the post-match, it is very clear that Eddie turns heel. He bloodies Chavo and beats up his brother and there's none of that "I Lie, I Cheat, I Steal" mischief to it - we may not be supposed to have sympathy for Chavo, but we're definitely not supposed to view Eddie's actions are virtuous either. When Eddie leaves, he doesn't get booed, but there are no more chants for him and the crowd is just kind of quiet. So...was this basically just dropped/never spoken of again? By No Way Out, I feel like Eddie was fully the impish, mischievous babyface. Is that accurate?

 

It's been 14 years but I remember Eddie being upset that their match got shortened last minute. Reason why the match feels a little rushed or different. Honestly don't remember the post-match so can't really comment on it.

[Mad Dog]

When did the private jet happen? I think the beginning of the end for Lesnar, even at the time I think it was said, was they made him fly all the way to South Africa for some nothing match with Bob Holly.

[pmo]

As I recall the Lesnar leaving didn't come up until the last minute. It was pretty well known that Goldberg was unhappy with the entire run and on his way out so the thought was that he would put over Lesnar on the way out. They had interfered in each other's match to setup the match, most memorably Goldberg at No Way Out. Lesnar apparently decided to leave for the NFL after booking plans had him putting over the returning as the Deadman Undertaker after Wrestlemania 20. That's when they flipped back to Goldberg going over.

 

As far as Benoit, it was expected he would win the rumble, but it hadn't been set in stone where he would go WM. Heyman, who was GM at the time and not managing Lesnar, had been feuding with him so it seemed like the move to Raw was designed to be Benoit's screw you to Heyman.

 

With Eddie/Chavo, Chavo had been slow burn Owen Hart whiny blaming Eddie for his misfortunes since SS. Chavo had made Eddie bleed in the lead up so this was a case of turnabout is fairplay.

[Mad Dog]

Wasn't there a whole blowup because they wanted Goldberg to stop using the Jackhammer and he told them to go fuck themselves around the Rumble as well?

[Eduardo]

Also now remembering that didn't Lesnar become even more displeased when he learned that Smackdown was going to be built around Guerrero moving forward? I remember reading that in the WON at the time.

[Victator]

I had lost my internet access shortly before this. But I thought Benoit had to win the Rumble because no one else on TV was being set up for it. Though I thought it was going to be Benoit vs Brock at Mania since that had been the feud off and on since Survivor Series. It really did not make sense to me that he was going to Raw.

[Cobra Commander]

Just watched Wild Wild Country on Netflix.

 

I guess the Mega Maharishi's Portland run just wasn't meant to last long enough for them to bring in a Ma Anand Sheela ripoff while Wiskoski took a vow of public silence.

 

Not to be confused with the Jerry Gray run as Mega Maharishi/The Guru.

[Slasher]

I had lost my internet access shortly before this. But I thought Benoit had to win the Rumble because no one else on TV was being set up for it. Though I thought it was going to be Benoit vs Brock at Mania since that had been the feud off and on since Survivor Series. It really did not make sense to me that he was going to Raw.

Especially after part of the story being told was that Benoit wanted to win the WWE title. He claimed that was part of why he left WCW, because he thought the WWE title was more important. So to have him win the Rumble then decide that a year old title (in lineage) was more important to chase than the very belt he made career altering decisions in the past to have a chance to win, was head scratching to see.

[Jmare007]

[iamthedoctor]

The matches are so good but dear god is the Flair/Steamboat feud in 1989 dull outside of the matches.

How do you feel WWE would have gone if Steamboat had stayed in WWE in 91 and they did a match there?

[iamthedoctor]

 

I had lost my internet access shortly before this. But I thought Benoit had to win the Rumble because no one else on TV was being set up for it. Though I thought it was going to be Benoit vs Brock at Mania since that had been the feud off and on since Survivor Series. It really did not make sense to me that he was going to Raw.

Especially after part of the story being told was that Benoit wanted to win the WWE title. He claimed that was part of why he left WCW, because he thought the WWE title was more important. So to have him win the Rumble then decide that a year old title (in lineage) was more important to chase than the very belt he made career altering decisions in the past to have a chance to win, was head scratching to see.

 

 

I always presumed the reason Benoit jumped to Raw was because he was tired of getting screwed by Heyman out of the belt. Im sure there was more than one opportunity he got screwed over which is probably why no one helped him when Austin came to Smackdown to get his ATV.

[Mad Dog]

 

 

The matches are so good but dear god is the Flair/Steamboat feud in 1989 dull outside of the matches.

How do you feel WWE would have gone if Steamboat had stayed in WWE in 91 and they did a match there?

I don't know if it would have ever made TV or would have been a squash to set up Flair and Savage'a feud.

[Slasher]

 

 

 

I had lost my internet access shortly before this. But I thought Benoit had to win the Rumble because no one else on TV was being set up for it. Though I thought it was going to be Benoit vs Brock at Mania since that had been the feud off and on since Survivor Series. It really did not make sense to me that he was going to Raw.

Especially after part of the story being told was that Benoit wanted to win the WWE title. He claimed that was part of why he left WCW, because he thought the WWE title was more important. So to have him win the Rumble then decide that a year old title (in lineage) was more important to chase than the very belt he made career altering decisions in the past to have a chance to win, was head scratching to see.

I always presumed the reason Benoit jumped to Raw was because he was tired of getting screwed by Heyman out of the belt. Im sure there was more than one opportunity he got screwed over which is probably why no one helped him when Austin came to Smackdown to get his ATV.

That makes him look weak. Just imagine Austin deciding to jump to WCW because Vince didn't want him as his champ. Every top babyface stood his ground and fought for what was right. I guess though it fits how the WWE saw the Benoit character in terms of where he ranks in the main event hierarchy.

[Cobra Commander]

 

 

 

The matches are so good but dear god is the Flair/Steamboat feud in 1989 dull outside of the matches.

How do you feel WWE would have gone if Steamboat had stayed in WWE in 91 and they did a match there?

I don't know if it would have ever made TV or would have been a squash to set up Flair and Savage'a feud.

So we probably wouldnt have gotten Flair/Mountie/Warlord/Skinner vs Hart/Bulldog/Piper/Steamboat in a Survivor Series March with the same screwjob finish?

[El-P]

 

Long overdue. He does look old though.

[shodate]

 

 

Long overdue. He does look old though.

 

im 10 years if not more younger than Shawn and he has more hair than I do both pre and post cut

[SomethingSavage]

I don't see how Benoit pursuing the WWE Championship makes him look weak from a kayfabe perspective. I mean, maybe if he hadn't ever won the WCW Championship in the first place. But he captured it first. Then he willingly left. He chose to chase the "big one" and left the Big Gold behind. That narrative fits just fine.

 

As far as why they shifted plans and transitioned Benoit from Brock to Hunter, I don't know that I've ever read anything too definitive. But I do recall hearing Prichard talk about it fairly recently. I can't pinpoint which episode of his podcast it was, but I distinctly remember him mentioning that the move was made per (or at least initiated by) Hunter's request to work with Benoit. The way Bruce talked about it was that Hunter felt like he could have really great matches with Benoit and wanted some of those under his belt. Sounded like Hunter was fully aware of his critics and wanting to rinse off some of the stigma from the previous few years. When you consider how careful Prichard is when discussing Triple H, I'd say it's safe to assume that this is mostly true.

 

I've never gotten any kind of indication as to when this actually occurred though. And that's also interesting, since the wheels were clearly already in motion to get to Brock/Goldberg. So maybe the original plan was for Benoit to beat Brock at No Way Out instead? I don't know. Because that leaves Eddie out in the cold, but beyond that... That's not even getting into the details of the actual venues. The atmosphere for that Eddie win is crucial to the story and the moment. It truly takes on a life of its own. I don't know that Benoit's win feels even remotely similar in that setting. Plus there's Backlash happening in Canada after Mania. I won't even pretend to know the logistics that go into that or how the timetable of changes in booking could affect any of that.

[Cobra Commander]

Shawn should probably shave after that haircut too, unless getting rid of shitty facial hair after a haircut is going a step too far for his look.

[Slasher]

I don't see how Benoit pursuing the WWE Championship makes him look weak from a kayfabe perspective. I mean, maybe if he hadn't ever won the WCW Championship in the first place. But he captured it first. Then he willingly left. He chose to chase the "big one" and left the Big Gold behind. That narrative fits just fine.

 

As far as why they shifted plans and transitioned Benoit from Brock to Hunter, I don't know that I've ever read anything too definitive. But I do recall hearing Prichard talk about it fairly recently. I can't pinpoint which episode of his podcast it was, but I distinctly remember him mentioning that the move was made per (or at least initiated by) Hunter's request to work with Benoit. The way Bruce talked about it was that Hunter felt like he could have really great matches with Benoit and wanted some of those under his belt. Sounded like Hunter was fully aware of his critics and wanting to rinse off some of the stigma from the previous few years. When you consider how careful Prichard is when discussing Triple H, I'd say it's safe to assume that this is mostly true.

 

I've never gotten any kind of indication as to when this actually occurred though. And that's also interesting, since the wheels were clearly already in motion to get to Brock/Goldberg. So maybe the original plan was for Benoit to beat Brock at No Way Out instead? I don't know. Because that leaves Eddie out in the cold, but beyond that... That's not even getting into the details of the actual venues. The atmosphere for that Eddie win is crucial to the story and the moment. It truly takes on a life of its own. I don't know that Benoit's win feels even remotely similar in that setting. Plus there's Backlash happening in Canada after Mania. I won't even pretend to know the logistics that go into that or how the timetable of changes in booking could affect any of that.

I was saying this:

 

1. Benoit left WCW as the champion, in real life because he didn't feel comfortable with Sullivan around and felt the title was a bribe to get him to stay, in storyline because he felt that the WWE was a better place and that their title was more prestigious. The WCW title is the same physical belt as the World title that Benoit chased on Raw after Royal Rumble, not the WWE title which was on Smackdown, held by Brock Lesnar, the very title he claimed was more prestigious. That was illogical.

 

2. The suggested reasoning that Benoit in storyline would just give up after a struggle with a GM and jump brands so he could have an easier path to the belt is weak. What top babyface is booked like that?

[gordi]

I took my nine year old nephew to his first wrestling show at New South in Hartselle. I promised him when he was three I would take him like I did his brother.

The show itself was pretty good. But honestly I rather be at home, I hate crowds and have severe anxiety, I was four nerve pills in just to function.

But it was still an amazing experience because I got to see wrestling thru the eyes of a child. To Connor "my nephew" everyone was a star. He was angry when the bad guys cheated and jubilant when the good guys won. He was not comparing young guys to hazy memories of the past they could not compare to. He ran up to every wrestler and got his arms signed. Cheeseburger made two fans last night in me and the Con Dog. Connor begged me for a mask so I got it telling him that was his big purchase. But he wanted a shirt from Cheeseburger so much. So I got it and he threw in an 8X10.

I saw the current indy wrestlers in a new light. Not these punks trying to usurp my memories. But guys with my old passion who want to make new memories. The whole trip kinda put me in the hole before April even started. But it was all worth it.

 

I think this deserves it own thread, pinned at the top of the board.

 

I get just a cynical about pro wrestling as anyone else, but a trip to a local Indy show is always the best way to help me get over myself. Particularly if there are kids there, marking out, and the wrestlers interact with the fans...

 

Everybody on this board (and elsewhere) who is currently stuck in an "everything stinks" phase needs to get out and have an experience like this. We all need to be reminded, from time to time, that wrestling is great and that we love it.

[El-P]

I'm quoting myself from a few months ago :

 

DDP Yoga. It works. Scrawny guy, never done sports, always bad at it at school, stiff as a rod, regular drinker and now at the finishing stages of "advanced" level in 7 months and in the best shape of my life at 42 (lost 5 pounds without even dieting in the process, from the little fat I got from beer and junk-food). So yeah, believe the hype.

 

So, update on DDP Yoga. I've reached 52 weeks of practice (more or less, with a few holes here and there as I started sometime in March last year). I have been doing the Extreme Psycho Workout every week for the last month. Which is a crazy notion to me even now. It's a struggle to go up on the forearm stands (already beat down when he gets to that point) and I'm not even trying to go up during the Psycho push-ups (not able to do it at all yet in training, but the ten seconds push-ups parts are like a day at the office now, which is crazy), but for the rest, I can manage the routine. First time I felt I got beat down by the 4 Horsemen (or the nWo, more likely), now I'm just a bit sore the day after. Still not dieting (which is not good, but I like to drink and eat stupid food when I'm depressed and lazy (and that means more often than not)). Best shape ever at 42. I almost have abs (I didn't know I had any).

 

So yeah, again, believe the hype. I did bruise some ribs a few months back training on the forearm stands, so be careful about some of the really hard stuff, you got to take it slow, but it's crazy the results you get with practice.

[WingedEagle]

How long is the daily workout?

[El-P]

How long is the daily workout?

 

For the last 6 months I've been doing 6 days a week : 4 days of roughly 40mn to 1H routines (I'm mixing it up, keeping the hardest for Friday) and twice the abs-only workout, which is 12 mn.

 

I'm thinking about getting the App to get more diversity now.

[Mad Dog]

I have it but haven't started it yet. They run sales on it and you get a lot of stuff. Several of my friends do it and swear by the DDP Yoga.

[WingedEagle]

 

How long is the daily workout?

 

For the last 6 months I've been doing 6 days a week : 4 days of roughly 40mn to 1H routines (I'm mixing it up, keeping the hardest for Friday) and twice the abs-only workout, which is 12 mn.

 

I'm thinking about getting the App to get more diversity now.

 

 

I've heard good things and have been intrigued, but I'm already running 4-6 miles 3-5x a week and hitting the elliptical the other days. Not sure how much I need to mix it up.