Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[Matt D]

Stakes are everything in wrestling.

[Boss Rock]

Really felt like late-2016 SDL was the best creative period since Bryan and the Shield. And it seems like Raw has gotten better with telling stories (apart from the Reigns-Lesnar nonsense).

[The Thread Killer]

The booking has been atrocious these last few years. Calling it even decent would be a major stretch. There are no stories. There aren't many characters with clear motivations to begin with, which makes it doubly difficult to set these people on opposite sides from each other and make it feel meaningful...Everything has come to this - an age where the booking has never mattered less. The in-ring action has taken a major upswing, for sure. And the guys have never worked harder. But the results and the action has also never meant less...And the few stories they do present are no longer about substantial issues or philosophical differences, because there are no characters with identities. There are no characters who stand for much of anything...I don't know. It's just all so lazy and unimaginative to me.

 

I couldn't agree more with the post above.

 

Preach on, brother

 

Stakes are everything in wrestling.

 

I could not possibly agree more with all of you more. You hit the proverbial nail on it's proverbial head.

 

This is why I find the fact that WWE has a so-called "creative team" with a staff of writers to be almost unbelievable. There is little evidence of creativity and I don't know what those writers are doing. You could get somebody to take a first year Creative Writing class and come up with better stories. I think these WWE "writers" are so busy trying to put words into the mouths of these guys that they've stopped even worrying about the motivation behind the words.

 

To me, this is why Bray Wyatt has failed as a character. Remember when he first came up to the main roster, on the back of that series of outstanding vignettes? He was full of potential, which has been largely wasted and gone untapped. Wyatt was never going to become popular on the basis of his in-ring work, like an AJ Styles or a Daniel Bryan. He was going to have to capture the imagination of the fans based on his character. And the WWE writers have totally failed him, by failing to come up with even remotely compelling stories to involve his character in. It doesn't matter how intriguing his character is, if you can't follow up on that and give him something compelling to do.

 

The Bray Wyatt/Finn Balor "feud" is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with WWE creative. They had a prolonged rivalry which spanned several Pay Per View events and weekly television shows, and even the announcers were unable to explain the reasons behind the rivalry. I will never forget Michael Cole saying during one of their matches that Finn Balor had "taken great issue" with Bray Wyatt. For some reason, Corey Graves asked why...and Cole actually responded: "I don't know...you'll have to ask him." I was shocked, I almost died laughing at the utter incompetence. This is a major, prolonged feud which had been going on for some time...which the announcers couldn't even explain. Total lack of competent writing. It's really quite pathetic. If WWE didn't have such great athletes and put on good matches, they'd never survive as "entertainment" because they sure as hell aren't storytellers anymore.

[SomethingSavage]

Exactly. The basis of almost every single feud is about "performing" for the "universe" and very little else. Their idea of a deep, personal rivalry seems to be running a bunch of rematches over and over with guys trading wins. That's about it. Occasionally, they'll add some extra "depth" to these matches by mentioning something that somebody said on Twitter this one time.

 

I think you're right though. Their writing staff probably gets hung up on scripting everything. Bray is a perfect example of somebody who technically speaks a lot of words, but he never actually says anything of substance. No matter the opponent, no matter the circumstance, no matter the match stipulation or its place on the card - it all sounds the same. It's empty, interchangeable words. And it's all ultimately meaningless. Because they're just out there to kill time and run out the clock, so they can come back and do it all again the next week.

[Mad Dog]

I think that's why Lesnar/Joe got so hot over the summer. It felt like there were stakes and they had tangible motivations behind why they hated each other so much.

[SomethingSavage]

Oh. Totally.

 

And Joe carried himself like a fucking stone-faced killer. I don't discount the added benefit of that for even a second. Joe brought some swag in everything he did during that time - from the promos to the pull-aparts down to the way he walked. Joe was 100% dialed in for that program.

 

I won't even take anything away from Brock's contributions in that one either. Regardless of how much effort he exerted in the eventual match (which I still say was a super fun sprint that's damaged a good bit by the abrupt & underwhelming finish), you have to give it to Brock for his reactions in those rare moments he shows hesitation or vulnerability. Brock looking temporarily lost or perplexed by the fact that Joe is marching right up to him and getting straight in his face will never not be more compelling to me than another tedious Seth Rollins match that's packed bell to bell with moves... But ultimately means nothing.

 

Pretty critical to note that neither guy was talking about performing for the universe or setting records or making history or any of that horse shit. They were talking trash and selling it like there was going to be a fight.

 

It's all about those scenarios though. It's about characters clashing. It's the heart and soul of every story ever told since the dawn of time. And they've acquired the skills of an entire staff of supposed writers that can't seem to wrap their heads around the simplest, most basic fundamentals of storytelling anymore.

 

Because hey. Let's just have them wrestle each other. Again. That's way easier. The rest will take care of itself.

[Mad Dog]

It felt real too. Like they weren't going off script. I think the best line of the entire WWE last year was Joe telling Lesnar to look at him when he's talking to him. That was one of those rare "oh shit" moments you don't get anymore.

[SomethingSavage]

That was tremendous. Brock was being the bully, trying to big dog Joe by shrugging him off with nervous laughter. But Joe wasn't having that shit and stepped straight to him.

 

Joe just might be the most natural talker on their roster right now. Without thinking too much on it, he's certainly got to be right up there. I'm not out to turn this into a discussion of comparisons, but it's similar in style to a Steve Austin or a peak Taz in ECW. Samoa Joe with an issue - with an axe to grind and a real chip on his shoulder - is the kind of character I could never grow tired of watching.

[fakeplastictrees]

I believe people continue to downplay the impact Russo still plays in WWE storytelling despite being out of the company for nearly 20 years. When "making history" becomes the narrative, everything else is secondary. Nothing else matter except for that moment. This hurts the product from top-to-bottom. It doesn't matter whether or not John Cena's last 2-3 title reigns should have happened--its all about "making history" and surpassing Flair. Raw 25 having truly memorable moments doesn't really matter, because the event itself is the moment worth remembering and its "making history" by just even occurring. Mandy Rose doesn't want to win the Royal Rumble, she is just happy to be part of something historic. What does this all produce? Wrestlers that are just happy to be there. Shows that are important because they are important. Title reigns occurring only to "make history" (i.e. Nikki Bella's long steak of doing nothing until she hit the milestone) and not advance story and/or character(s) in any real meaningful way. WWE has killed the curative fan as there is nothing to curate. This thus leaves most fans to be transformative fans and fill in the blanks. WWE's focus on 'making history' and nothing else has lead to political hit theories and such that are at worse fully believed and at best hard to shoot down due to WWE catering to the future historians and not the modern day critics. The sad, and interesting, thing is the intersectionality is being ignored while at the same time artificially addressed.

[Edwin]

MLW tonight:

 

MLW World Title Tournament Final: Shane Strickland vs. Matt Riddle

Penta el 0M vs. Rey Fénix

Joey's Bogus Adventure Match: Joey Janela vs. Jimmy Havoc

Sami Callihan vs. MVP

ACH vs. Tom Lawlor

Fred Yehi vs. MJF

Santana Garrett vs. Aerial Monroe

Elimination Tag Match: Jimmy Yuta & Jason Cade vs. the Dirty Blondes

 

Priscilla Kelly and Darby Allin are off the card. Priscilla is on tour with DDT in Japan and Darby suffered an injury in PROGRESS during WrestleMania weekend.

 

STOKED!

[SPS]

MLW tonight:

 

MLW World Title Tournament Final: Shane Strickland vs. Matt Riddle

Penta el 0M vs. Rey Fénix

Matt Sydal vs. Low Ki

Joey's Bogus Adventure Match: Joey Janela vs. Jimmy Havoc

Sami Callihan vs. MVP

ACH vs. Tom Lawlor

Fred Yehi vs. MJF

Santana Garrett vs. Aerial Monroe

 

Priscilla Kelly and Darby Allin are off the card. Priscilla is on tour with DDT in Japan and Darby suffered an injury in PROGRESS during WrestleMania weekend.

 

STOKED!

 

I thought Low Ki had a neck injury that left him medically unfit to wrestle Matt Riddle last weekend at BloodSport? how is he doing this match if he was that hurt?

[Edwin]

I thought Low Ki had a neck injury that left him medically unfit to wrestle Matt Riddle last weekend at BloodSport? how is he doing this match if he was that hurt?

Court Bauer just said both, Ki and Sydal are injured. Ki will still be at the show, but he won't be cleared to compete.

[Mad Dog]

So how is Shimmer staying in business when their DVD releases are 2 years behind?

[Flyin' Brian]

As long as everything is focused on making the brand more important than the wrestlers themselves, WWE is never going to create any more real stars unless they luck into someone. Guys like Joe, AJ, and Daniel Bryan that have worked everywhere and know how to get themselves over can overcome the scripted nature of everything and can be themselves dialed up to 11. Most of the other wrestlers are scared robots, reciting the same lines and having the same matches over and over and feeling like WWE is the be all end all of wrestling. Granted there's no competition out there at their level, but the people who have been through the modern day equivalent of the territory system know they are more than cogs in the machine and are able to have real personalities and characters beyond what WWE gives them. They know that there is life out there beyond the WWE. There aren't many of the home grown WWE talents that I feel could survive and thrive outside of WWE because the skills and traits to do so have been beaten out of them or never learned/taught.

[Edwin]

Balls! Strickland vs. Riddle was amazing live. Not sure hiw it will come across on video, but it was an amazing experience. Strickland is the new MLW world heavyweight champion.

 

MJF vs. Yehi and Penta vs. Fenix were good too, although the first Penta vs. Fenix match was better. Strickland's first denfense will be against Penta.

 

I hope they make Yehi a regular. He is great.

 

The venue was sold out. Easily the biggest audience they've had. About 500 people.

[Tim Evans]

Did the show seem different compared to the other MLW shows? I couldn't go but from reading the results, it seemed like they were doing more angles. Especially with Sami and Havoc.Also they are bringing in Jack Swagger and teaming him with Col.Parker which I hope means the return of Papa Swagger Jimmy Golden.

[Edwin]

Did the show seem different compared to the other MLW shows? I couldn't go but from reading the results, it seemed like they were doing more angles. Especially with Sami and Havoc.Also they are bringing in Jack Swagger and teaming him with Col.Parker which I hope means the return of Papa Swagger Jimmy Golden.

It was about the same. First half was forgettable.

 

The angle stuff was mostly run during the first half.

 

And yeah, they announced Swagger was coming in -- most likely for the next show. The Penta vs. Fenix match was fun, but their first match was better. Strickland vs. Riddle was ridiculously fun live, but I'm not sure how it will come across on video.

[Strummer]

I absolutely echo the sentiment that Joe is the best traditional wrestling promo in the company. I was thinking that this past Raw and it really makes the overly scripted buzz word filled promos look second rate by comparison

[El-P]

Joe was already a really strong promo in TNA by the time he finally got the title. The guys speaks real. He's a total 80's NWA call-back.

 

Since it was mentionned (but I can't find where), yes, Roman Reigns "shooty-shooty" promo on RAW was absolutely Russo circa 2000 shit. "Vince did not smartened me up ?" is right up there with "What are they gonna do, improvise ?".

 

And about guys having no real issue and just be happy to "make history" and "be part of the Universe", there's also this idea that if you get fired from WWE, you basically fall into poverty. Because these guys aren't super-athetes and superstars who wins a shitload of money. They just are WWE employee who are afraid to lose their job and who really aren't stars who can make money "in general". Hence the stupid Sami & KO stuff this week. It makes everybody so not important and actually pretty lame as people.

[gordi]

. They just are WWE employee who are afraid to lose their job

 

They are not even that. They are "independent contractors"

[El-P]

*wink wink nudge nudge*

[KawadaSmile]

Cena and Nikki are no longer together. I'm sad.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I want a Cena vs Miz fued based on this.

[hammerva]

I want a Cena vs Miz fued based on this.

 

Given what Miz said in the buildup for last year's Wrestlemania, they should be tag partners in a "man I tried to tell you" thing

 

Weeks of promos with cena on the couch looking like the guy in Forgetting Sarah Marshall while Miz and maryse are trying to raise their kids.

[brockobama]

I, for one, would love to see Cena try and write a puppet-based Dracula musical.