Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[sek69]

I mean, lying about not knowing a convicted pedo seems like a fairly big deal. Wrestling Twitter does get hung up on some dumb shit sometimes but this doesn't seem like one of those times.

[KawadaSmile]

The dude is the Top Champion in the #2 promotion in the world.

He decided to, in a vanity project, to use the name of the promotion he works for.

He was the sole booker and promoter of the whole event.

He had an actual pedophile wrestling against a domestic abuser on his show, went on the defensive when questioned about it and LIED about not having any sort of contact with the guy in over a decade.

This is not some fake woke shit, brothers. NJPW is planning a global expansion and now their name is associated to a nonce thanks to Omega. Not really hard to see how this is actually a big story.

[El-P]

Fun fact : every time some guy does a frog splash to honor Eddie, he actually also honors Art Barr by proxy.

[SomethingSavage]

I'm sorry, but that's hilarious.

Either you hold the guy accountable, or you don't.

Choosing to keep up with his matches for fear of missing out on what your wrestling circle is rating six or seven stars that month is just silly. If you're really, truly, actually offended then there wouldn't even be a compromise.

This is why it's actually *not* a big story. Because nobody is prepared to hold anyone accountable for any of it.

Who is the offended party here? Diehard NJPW fans? Okay. I can buy that. But who are they outraged at? Omega? They can't exactly avoid him, because they are going to choose to keep up with the product above all else. This isn't the mass general public we're talking about. This is the most niche of the niche. They're not going to give up their G1 fix over Kenny fucking Omega booking some asshole this one time.

And they aren't going to boycott NJPW. So, if nothing is done to make a dent in their business, how exactly is this meant to be this great "big story" again?

[Bix]

1 hour ago, SomethingSavage said:

This is why it's actually *not* a big story. Because nobody is prepared to hold anyone accountable for any of it.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything? Lots of big stories don't necessarily result in immediate action.

[EricR]

Chasyn Rance drives a black Mercedes with a custom license plate that says "CHA5YN". People booking this dude know he's shitty. 

[ragemaster]

If I was booking a wrestling show for a one off and not signing these guys to regularly work for me.

I wouldn't be doing background checks ether, I don't think any wrestling promoter would. 

 

Now did Omega lie about it, or maybe he just forgot he's meet the guy more than once.

 

What I cant wait for is when Jim Cornette losses his shit over it.

 

I don't personally think its a big story in the grand scheme of sleazy wrestling story's.

What's the law for sex offenders in America, does Chasyn Rance have to announce to the crowd he's on a sex offenders list.

Is it illegal for a sex offender to work in wrestling?

It may leave a bad taste in people's mouths, but if the guy been convicted and served his time.

Then isn't he free to work and earn his money?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bix]

3 hours ago, ragemaster said:

If I was booking a wrestling show for a one off and not signing these guys to regularly work for me.

I wouldn't be doing background checks ether, I don't think any wrestling promoter would. 

Now did Omega lie about it, or maybe he just forgot he's meet the guy more than once.

What I cant wait for is when Jim Cornette losses his shit over it.

I don't personally think its a big story in the grand scheme of sleazy wrestling story's.

What's the law for sex offenders in America, does Chasyn Rance have to announce to the crowd he's on a sex offenders list.

Is it illegal for a sex offender to work in wrestling?

It may leave a bad taste in people's mouths, but if the guy been convicted and served his time.

Then isn't he free to work and earn his money?  

First of all, this whole "background check" discussion needs to be clarified to determine if we mean actual paid criminal background checks or not. Rance is on the sex offender registry and articles about his arrest etc were at the top of search results for his name.

Where the Omega thing gets dicey at this point is that on top of his weird defensiveness and combativeness from the jump, two years ago, Alex Jebailey (the head of CEO) posted an Instagram pic of himself, Omega, Michael Nakazawa, and Rance together with a caption saying Omega made the introduction so he could rent the Rance's ring to use as a stage. Omega is claiming that this isn't the case and he figures that Jebailey decided to credit him because he was "the wrestler." That...doesn't really make any sense, and Jebailey hasn't given his side yet (I have an email out to him). Plus it was Omega's show that he was very public about producing himself and, even setting aside Rance and Epic's issues, putting a non-NJPW match on first was such a bad idea that it makes a lot more sense if it was part of a deal that came with Rance's ring/ring crew. And other stuff, like the match conspicuously not having ring intros, sure makes it seem like SOMEONE knew about Rance.

I should have more on this point (as well as the whole thing) coming in an article, but the short version on Rance himself is that by all indications, he seems completely unrepentant, joking on podcasts about being into underage girls and telling people (both in and out of wrestling) wildly inaccurate accounts of the facts of his case.

[Victator]

On 6/30/2018 at 7:13 PM, sek69 said:

 

It seems that's pretty much what happened here. Not sure why Kenny felt the need to get super defensive about a guy he said he only met once back in 2004, but that was the hill he originally chose for battle.

That is probably a big sign Kenfredo is lying. 

[El-P]

7 hours ago, ragemaster said:

If I was booking a wrestling show for a one off and not signing these guys to regularly work for me.

I wouldn't be doing background checks ether, I don't think any wrestling promoter would. 

 

Now did Omega lie about it, or maybe he just forgot he's meet the guy more than once.

 

I don't personally think its a big story in the grand scheme of sleazy wrestling story's.

What's the law for sex offenders in America, does Chasyn Rance have to announce to the crowd he's on a sex offenders list.

Is it illegal for a sex offender to work in wrestling?

It may leave a bad taste in people's mouths, but if the guy been convicted and served his time.

Then isn't he free to work and earn his money?  

Pretty much sums up what I think about it too.

3 hours ago, Bix said:

I should have more on this point (as well as the whole thing) coming in an article, but the short version on Rance himself is that by all indications, he seems completely unrepentant, joking on podcasts about being into underage girls and telling people (both in and out of wrestling) wildly inaccurate accounts of the facts of his case.

And ? The guy apparently is a sleaze and a piece of shit. Ok. That's pretty much a given. 

(How is Jerry Lawler doing, BTW ?)

I mean, really, are people in the Tokyo office going crazy because some unknown indy sleazebag got sloppily booked to work as a ring crew and work a dark match on a joint promotion vanity show at a video game convention in the US ? Really ? That's gonna hurt their business ? Come on now.

[Victator]

7 minutes ago, El-P said:

How is Jerry Lawler doing, BTW ?)

He had a stroke in March, but seems to be doing well. 

[Bix]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

And ? The guy apparently is a sleaze and a piece of shit. Ok. That's pretty much a given. 

(How is Jerry Lawler doing, BTW ?)

I mean, really, are people in the Tokyo office going crazy because some unknown indy sleazebag got sloppily booked to work as a ring crew and work a dark match on a joint promotion vanity show at a video game convention in the US ? Really ? That's gonna hurt their business ? Come on now.

As many people as there are in wrestling who have probably committed sex crimes, there are very few that are actually registered sex offenders, and even less who are still active in wrestling. THAT'S the point. Yeah, we all think Lawler's guilty, and more strongly than before because of the stuff I got from the Louisville PD earlier in the year (which I've since learned was maybe not supposed to be released to me, but that's another story), but he wasn't convicted of anything and isn't a registered sex offender. Rance is on the registry, has talked/joked(?) about being "into all ages, as long as they're developed" on podcasts as recently as three years ago on top, etc. 

[El-P]

20 minutes ago, Bix said:

As many people as there are in wrestling who have probably committed sex crimes, there are very few that are actually registered sex offenders, and even less who are still active in wrestling. THAT'S the point. 

Maybe. But the entire history of pro-wrestling reeks of guys having sex with underage "rats". This is the hypocrisy of the whole thing. People claiming moral outrage because of this yet still talk about how great the WWE is (you know, that company who just got a fat check to run propaganda pieces for a criminal regime) should settle the fuck down. Was it a mistake to book a sleazebag like that ? You bet it was. (That being said, the fact you're registered as having sex once with a 15 years old girl shouldn't prevent you to work either once you've served your time. This isn't pedophilia either people BTW, it's sex with underage, which can qualify as rape if you consider that underage equals no consent, but absolutely not pedophilia, which is a different, much worse offense and issue. That's beside the point, but words have a meaning.)

But let's also stop lusting about the good old days too then, because as Meltz very well put it on the latest WOR podcast "If there isn't a 14 years old girl giving blowjobs in the bathroom, this isn't the territory days." Or maybe it matters less because "things were different then" ? (which is a totally bullshit line) But hey, Jerry Lawler is a legend and throws a great punch. Let's do some reviews of good ol' Memphis. Yeah, the hypocrisy of the whole thing is what annoys me (or what I find humorous, depending on the moment).

EDIT : funnier when I think about back when I got a tons of shit for making the "New favourite murderer worker" joke/comment when Invader 1 was the new hype (aka "discovery") around here. I was told back then I had a holier than thou attitude. Same thing when people were still pimping the Nightmares despite the fact Ken Waye had been exposed as the piece of shit he is. I guess I was a few years too early being outraged...

[sek69]

"You shouldn't be concerned that sex offenders are in wrestling now because there's always been sex offenders in wrestling" has always been an.....interesting.... argument to make. I mean, maybe it's a pipe dream to dream of a world where there's no sexual predators in wrestling, but maybe it's not the worst thing to strive towards?

Also, Kenny needs to realize he's the public face of a major company trying to make inroads to the North American market. Fair or not, it's going to reflect on him and/or New Japan when it comes out their champion was on a show with a sex offender. Part of being the TOP GUY involves doing due diligence for shit like this.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, sek69 said:

"You shouldn't be concerned that sex offenders are in wrestling now because there's always been sex offenders in wrestling" has always been an.....interesting.... argument to make.

Except no one is making that argument. 

10 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Also, Kenny needs to realize he's the public face of a major company trying to make inroads to the North American market. Fair or not, it's going to reflect on him and/or New Japan when it comes out their champion was on a show with a sex offender.

You mean worse than Jerry Lawler being employed for 20 + years and praised as a living legend by the WWE ? Or Snuka being eulogized as a hero ? Oh, I forgot, they were never *convicted*. Well, sex offense and murder did (arguably) happen, but…

I bet no one will give a shit in the grand scheme of things, really.

[Mad Dog]

My thing with this is that it's a mistake that we all would have easily made in the same spot. And as for the picture. There are executives in my company that I've had to introduce myself to multiple times and they work on the same floor that I do. And as someone that manages people, a metric shit ton of people are defensive about any sort of mistake they make.

This is something where I'm really not going to give Omega any grief for it. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he learns from his mistake or not. If he does it again then you have a pattern of behavior that should be called out. 

[Victator]

11 hours ago, El-P said:

You mean worse than Jerry Lawler being employed for 20 + years and praised as a living legend by the WWE ?

Charges were dropped and he is a living legend. 

 

Quote

Oh, I forgot, they were never *convicted*. Well, sex offense and murder did (arguably) happen, but…

That damn due process, You'll be happy to know, Dear Leader hates it as much as you do. 

[El-P]

I have a whole grand analogy with the Tour de France and its history (of doping in that case), but I'm too lazy right now. But I'll just say this : Chris Froome can participate in this year's Tour ! Yipee ! Nothing to see there. Charged dropped ! He's not at all a dubious character at best and we can celebrate him as a multi-time winner and cycling legend ! What a circus. 

[Blehschmidt]

How much of the KTVT footage of Dallas/World Class survived?

I'm reading Gary Hart's book and have gotten to the parts where he is booking for Fritz and some of the pre-syndicated stuff sounds like it would be cool to see.

I have been slowly watching the available World Class on the network, and I realize this is all the syndicated show. 

So I am just curious what, and how much pre-syndication stuff exists on video.

[kjh]

I think Dave's whole reaction to the Chasyn Rance controversy just shows how out of touch he is with parts of the modern independent wrestling community and really the real world today. Kenny Omega has a modern, progressive, diverse, LGBT friendly and feminist fan base through the Golden Lovers gimmick with Kota Ibushi, plus also one that is anti-corporate wrestling through the All In phenomenon. When you carve such a niche for yourself you can't simply dig your head in the sand and play by the rules of sleazy indy wrestling of yesteryear or moan about all the bad shit WWE has done in the past and present. You have to practice what you preach and understand your fan base. There's no hypocrisy with the fans who support wrestlers / promotions who espouse an inclusive environment and got upset with Kenny for somehow having a convicted sex offender to work his show, the hypocrisy is with the wrestler who didn't live up to the standards he set for himself.

[9 Corpses Hang in the Mist]

Not defending Kenny or any part if this situation, but pro-wrestling would have been better off if the soys had stayed out of it.  Soy fans AND soy wrestlers.

[El-P]

The real question is : how many of the fans who attended the show actually asked for refunds, as Omega proposed refunds to anyone that felt offended by his mistake. And how much this will affect Omega's image in the US as a drawing card for ROH/NJPW. The rest is literature.

(wait, I thought Omega was already working for a big corporation named NewJapan Pro-wrestling, which also are evil misogynist motherfuckers for not having a women's division ? How does that work with the "inclusive" tagline ? Shouldn't the modern, progressive, diverse, LGBT friendly, feminist pro-wrestling fans already hate Omega for this fact alone ? Hell, he's working in Japan, which is not exactly a progressive, diverse, LGBT friendly, feminist society to begin with. This stuff is legit funny as fuck to me at this point.)

[clintthecrippler]

To people that keep bringing up Lawler:

If he was convicted, there is no way in hell WWF would have ever brought him back under any circumstance. WCW also likely would have stayed far the fuck away. Yeah, after getting out of jail he would probably still be working all around Tennessee indies and Ian Rotten probably would have booked him for IWA Mid South, but if convicted Lawler's career would have ended on a mainstream level then and there.

[joeg]

Here's an actual question for people here who are in the wrestling business, is it standard for workers to undergo background checks on prior to being booked?

I've gone through a background check several times for different jobs, and it doesn't seem like a necessary expense for a one off independent wrestling show. I had never heard of either of these guys prior to Saturday, so I don't know if its common knowledge about their criminal issues as their existence isn't common knowledge. 

Omega issued a press release apologizing for booking them. He denied any knowing of their criminal record. He offered a refund and said  they wouldn't appear on any shows he promotes in the future. I'm not exactly sure what more could be done to clean up the mess from a PR stand point. 

[El-P]

As far as Lawler goes, yes, probably. As it is, without any conviction, the fact Lawler likes his girls really young is just a good joke to tell around and make puns of.

That being said, Mike Tyson, 5 years after raping a 18 years old girl, was part of what was the turnaround angle in WWF history. 

Omega did a mistake. That's life. He apologized. Twice. Offered refunds (and like I said, it would be interesting to know how many refunds were asked because of this). He will probably be a lot more cautious next time around. The sleazebag in question will probably not get that much booking after that one. That's pretty much it.