Jimmy Redman Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly with Loss. It's exhausting being a WWE fan when they seem so determined to wage war against their paying customers. Instead of giving fans what they want they almost take gleeful satisfaction in frustrating them, like it's a game and they have to "win", and if you let the crowd become too happy then they "win" and you "lose" (somehow, by making more money?). The way that they have almost all heel champs. The way that they book PPVs where the heels win practically every match and give the crowd no feel good results. The way they get to the PPV and have heels retain their belts by some lame countout nonsense. The babyface can never get a damn win at the PPV! The way they had Hunter and Steph come out every week and berate the crowd and the crowd's favourite wrestlers for being stupid little marks for years up until very recently. The way they push a guy like Roman seemingly to spite people. The way they take an insanely popular dude like Enzo and have him be completely annihilated by a guy like Cass because one is 7ft tall and one isn't. The way they have insanely popular girls like Bayley and Sasha and have no idea what to do with them except beat them over and over and over. And so on. You combine all of that heel-heavy, disappointment-heavy booking with the general drag of three hour Raws and endless television that feels like it all runs together and it's all just...tiresome. There's no joy in watching at the moment. Wrestling should be fun - it should feel like fun - or else why waste our time with it? I need that joy and I'm not getting it from the main roster anymore outside of Fashion Police skits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPulis'Cap Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly with Loss. It's exhausting being a WWE fan when they seem so determined to wage war against their paying customers. Instead of giving fans what they want they almost take gleeful satisfaction in frustrating them, like it's a game and they have to "win", and if you let the crowd become too happy then they "win" and you "lose" (somehow, by making more money?). The way that they have almost all heel champs. The way that they book PPVs where the heels win practically every match and give the crowd no feel good results. The way they get to the PPV and have heels retain their belts by some lame countout nonsense. The babyface can never get a damn win at the PPV! The way they had Hunter and Steph come out every week and berate the crowd and the crowd's favourite wrestlers for being stupid little marks for years up until very recently. The way they push a guy like Roman seemingly to spite people. The way they take an insanely popular dude like Enzo and have him be completely annihilated by a guy like Cass because one is 7ft tall and one isn't. The way they have insanely popular girls like Bayley and Sasha and have no idea what to do with them except beat them over and over and over. And so on. You combine all of that heel-heavy, disappointment-heavy booking with the general drag of three hour Raws and endless television that feels like it all runs together and it's all just...tiresome. There's no joy in watching at the moment. Wrestling should be fun - it should feel like fun - or else why waste our time with it? I need that joy and I'm not getting it from the main roster anymore outside of Fashion Police skits. Agree with a lot of this, although, I feel like wrestling bookers/companies for decades have enjoyed frustrating the paying customer and continue to do so - not just WWE. In terms of a chase and building heat, cheap wins/DQs/run ins/heel tactics can all be helpful points on a bigger journey, the key is knowing when to cash in and let the face go over or win the big one at the right time. Too many times, you get a cheap ending, justified as building heat, when the time is right for a payoff. I think I remember Will talking about it on either one of the reaction shows or Dangerous Alliance podcasts, but the problem a lot of the time with wrestling is that there aren't enough feel good moments when you really think about it. Obviously it would be boring - and it would turn the crowd off - if babyfaces always won against the odds, but the art of sending home crowds happy and giving them something...anything....to cheer about or get behind often just isn't there. Even when someone does get that big moment, or there is something that genuinely makes people happy, it's so quickly moved on from or taken away from them. I know that's a bit the nature of the beast with wrestling not being in seasons or having down time, but fans being able to revel in the success of a hero or feel good moment might help people to feel more invested and make dodgy/controversial finishes have more impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I look at how Goldberg was booked in the first month or so of his return and I think if Reigns is booked like that (obviously not identically but in the same vein) he wouldn't have the mixed reaction issue, at least not to the same extent. Goldberg in his opening promo came across as a bigger ass-kicking cool badass babyface than Reigns and all his "I am THE guy" promos. So I guess the company does know how to book babyfaces and make them look badass instead of geeks or losers who cannot hang with the evil heels, but..they choose not to do that with Reigns and co.? I dunno, it is very weird. I really like Goldberg, but Reigns is a significantly better worker than he is, and yet he has never looked as good as Goldberg was booked to look, even without the surprise squashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 It is a balancing act, and of course heels have to build heat. But even heels dominating can be fun and exciting. When fans can tell their moment is coming, they are usually willing to be patient and go along for the ride. When it's questionable or obvious that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I think that's the biggest issue with the heel domination right now. A lot of its just filler that isn't leading anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 James Ellsworth being suspended for 30 days seems a bit extreme. They could of used him as heat but instead he's on twitter getting fan support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Jeremy Borash/Joseph Park vs. Josh Matthews/Scott Steiner had a more satisfying face victory than almost anything the WWE has produced in months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 The funny thing is that the biggest success this company has is when they get behind a big babyface champ and have a face winning every night (Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Cena), and then they seemingly get amnesia about it and decide to beat all their faces into the ground thinking that will do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 WWE has been perpetually building to a future that never arrives for many years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Well I'm sure they thought over 2 1/2 years ago that Reigns would be in the same spot as those four at this moment. Not trying to say he isn't their biggest full time star right now but he hasn't reached their level yet. But obviously that is the ultimate goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Maybe with another 3 or 4 Mania main events Roman will become a legit superstar. He has helped elevate Stroman as the biggest face in the company though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 The more they try the more Roman's going to end up the Lex Luger of this generation in fans' eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted July 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Maybe with another 3 or 4 Mania main events Roman will become a legit superstar. Good lord, with that many Mania Main Events under his belt he'd better be a legit superstar by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 WWE canceled Talking Smack as a weekly show. Will only air after PPVs now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutenberger Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 WWE canceled Talking Smack as a weekly show. Will only air after PPVs now Well, that sucks. Talking Smack has pretty much been my highlight in weekly WWE TV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I wonder what the reason is/was. It can't cost that much to produce, right? Was there issues with travel for talent and staff? Do the numbers show that Talking Smack does worse than putting on a random PPV in terms of live Network viewers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Per Dave it was low ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Come on. Ratings don't matter at all. Everybody is watching WWE on Youtube... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I wonder how much viewership dropped once they put the show after 205 Live. Also, it seems Renee Young wasn't told and found out about it on Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I wonder how much viewership dropped once they put the show after 205 Live. Also, it seems Renee Young wasn't told and found out about it on Twitter. A fan mentioned her in a Tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Putting 205 Live in the middle was dumb as hell, it's no wonder. Fuck the cruiser division, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Our old friend rovert is now claiming on twitter that they are building towards Charlotte v Rousey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 It's so fucking weird and telling that so many of you chose to go on rants about Reigns to deflect from talking about how fucking great RAW was this week, at least on HULU. Joe fucking killed it, The Revival return ruled, Big Show comes out to teach Big Cass a lesson and fucking owns his m one may with some amateur shit before kicking the shot out of him until Cass takes a powder in an angle I now really want to see play out hopefully, and the storytelling involved was great, and lots of truly great tv. It's the best RAW I've seen in a long time and yet, "Roman Reigns , have we ever blathered on about him before? " "Ye..." "No? Well, sit right back. I prepared a PowerPoint presentation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 Our old friend rovert is now claiming on twitter that they are building towards Charlotte v Rousey Charlotte has been pretty lackluster since she got moved to Smackdown. She was like always on top on Raw and the PPVs but since the move to Smackdown she hasent been noticable at all. Cant stand Charlotte but why did creative go this way instead of doing what they had done on Raw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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