Grimmas Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Well? I was thinking about this WWF narrative lately. Also, were there any WWF matches prior that topped Savage-Steamboat? And how long did Michaels-Razor stand atop the pole? Michaels-Razor wasn't even the best match that night. On the night it was, but it hasn't stood the test of time and has aged since the Hardy's, Edge and Christian and the Dudley's raised the bar. Completely disagree. Ladder matches are like action films. Fun at the moment but hardly hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I remember really loving The Rockers Vs. The Orient Express from Royal Rumble 1991. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragemaster Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Well? I was thinking about this WWF narrative lately. Also, were there any WWF matches prior that topped Savage-Steamboat? And how long did Michaels-Razor stand atop the pole? Michaels-Razor wasn't even the best match that night. On the night it was, but it hasn't stood the test of time and has aged since the Hardy's, Edge and Christian and the Dudley's raised the bar. Completely disagree. Ladder matches are like action films. Fun at the moment but hardly hold up. Not sure what point your making, sounds like your agreeing with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Bret vs. Davey Boy SS92 is my pick. Incredible Bret performance playing the subtle heel vs. the hometown boy. Bret vs. Savage SNME 87 is excellent too. Also agree with the comments that Bret/Owen > Shawn/Razor. Shawn vs. Razor is a great match but Bret vs. Owen is one of the best matches of all time and my #2 US match ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Well? I was thinking about this WWF narrative lately. Also, were there any WWF matches prior that topped Savage-Steamboat? And how long did Michaels-Razor stand atop the pole? Michaels-Razor wasn't even the best match that night. On the night it was, but it hasn't stood the test of time and has aged since the Hardy's, Edge and Christian and the Dudley's raised the bar. Completely disagree. Ladder matches are like action films. Fun at the moment but hardly hold up. Not sure what point your making, sounds like your agreeing with me. No. Bret-Owen was better that night and every day since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I haven't seen it in years but for something which is not really a WWF match at all, how does Adonis/Murdoch vs the Briscos hold up? Very good match (*** 1/2 ish if you want to talk star rating wise) but almost entirely thanks to Murdoch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Ramon/Michaels I was great because it maintains a face/heel dynamic. Spotfests are fun, but you don't get emotionally invested because there's no rooting interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 More people are going to remember the ladder match since it was the first one anyone ever saw unless they grew up watching Stampede. That will make it stand out in one's memory more than Bret/Owen which is the better match by practically any standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Ramon/Michaels I was great because it maintains a face/heel dynamic. Spotfests are fun, but you don't get emotionally invested because there's no rooting interest. Also they incorporated the ladder into their match instead of building it around ladder spots. The best description of the match I have read was that it is a match with a ladder rather than a ladder match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Yeah, I think the real point to is that Shawn and Razor would have had a great match without the ladder. You really can't say the same for the Hardys and crew. But choosing between the two perfect matches that happened at ten is like picking a favorite kid. One is the best opener, the other is the best gimmick match in Mania history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Bret vs Bulldog in SS 1992 for me. Slightly tainted by what I have learnt about Davey going into the match / blown spots etc, but even seeing a still photo of that match makes me feel warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 First matches to come to mind were Bret-Hennig SummerSlam 91, Bret-Davey SummerSlam 92, and Bret-Piper WMVIII. Also Savage-Flair WMVIII and Savage-Warrior WMVII. Some of the Rockers-Brainbusters matches too maybe. They tend to blend together with me, but I think they had a really great one on a SNME. I wouldn't say any of those matches are definitively best of that period, but think they all belong in the conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Anyone mentioned the big Survivor Series tag match? That one that goes about 40 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Anyone mentioned the big Survivor Series tag match? That one that goes about 40 minutes? Still contend this is one of the more overrated matches in WWF history. I have watched it on some live watches and at other points in the past couple of years and it doesn't top out at ***1/2 for me. Also, one of the dumbest decisions ever by a manager for Fuji to walk out on Demolition for Powers of Pain. The answer to this question as hypothesized in the original post is Savage vs Warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Anyone mentioned the big Survivor Series tag match? That one that goes about 40 minutes? Still contend this is one of the more overrated matches in WWF history. I have watched it on some live watches and at other points in the past couple of years and it doesn't top out at ***1/2 for me. Also, one of the dumbest decisions ever by a manager for Fuji to walk out on Demolition for Powers of Pain. Aye, but there's two big long 20-man tag matches, the Fuji flip was 1988 and the generally better-liked match was 1987. I would agree that neither is on the level of the other matches mentioned so far. And hey, Fuji was regularly portrayed as just plain dumb compared to some of the other managers, so it kind of fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Yeah, I always thought Fuji going with the Powers of Pain made total sense. 1) He was portrayed as dumber than the other top managers, and 2) The Powers of Pain were the new monster team in the fed. And 3) it worked to turn the Demos face, and they had a great face run. It all worked. And I loved those huge Survivor tag matches with the "re-enforced ring" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I love that match, but I can't endorse a match that ends with Powers of Pain vs Conquistadors as greatest anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 It's the 87 one for sure. They go almost 40 minutes and you've got the likes of Bret, Tito, Greg, Martel, Haku, Bulldogs all in there working their arses off for the full time. Plus it's a match with 20 guys in it that tells a story. I'd imagine around the **** mark which would put it on par with the best Savage vs. Dibiase matches at the very least. I haven't seen it in years though, so could be one like Summerslam 89 Brainbusters vs Harts that blows you away at the time -- in the context of 80s WWF VHS tapes -- but isn't so hot to see now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Demos vs Harts from 88 (not 90) is better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 there's a great Tito Santana vs Bob Orton Jr 30 min match shown in full on one of the 1986 prime time episodes on the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 I remember really loving The Rockers Vs. The Orient Express from Royal Rumble 1991. Found an online review of this match here: https://ringthedamnbell.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/matches-from-history-the-rockers-vs-the-orient-express-at-royal-rumble-1991/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 None of the Harts/Demos matches are all that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Hart/Hennig - Summerslam 91 Hart/Bulldog - Summerslam 92 Hogan/Savage - Wrestlemania V Hogan/Warrior - Wrestemania VI Warrior/Savage - Wrestlemania VII Warrior/Rude - Summerslam 89 Piper/Hart - Wrestlemania VIII Flair/Savage - Wrestlemania VIII Hennig/Flair - Raw 1/25/199 This seems pretty comprehensive, I'd add the Piper-Rude Cage Match and Hart-Lawler SummerSlam for completists sake. For my money, Piper-Hart is the best of the bunch with Hart-Lawler very close behind. Warrior/Savage doesn't floor me as a match anymore, it really is a smoke-and-mirrors backdrop for an angle. Good match and Loss is on point as usual with his comment. Just not my cup of tea in 2017. Hart-Lawler at Summerslam '93? Is that the one with Doink interference? Memories are fuzzy for me on that, but I'm not sure it would make my top 200 matches of that period let alone top two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Technically it's two different matches. It was billed as Hart vs. Lawler so I'm considering the entire segment in my rating. Realistically, I could see people watch it and look at it as nothing more than a pair of **1/2 matches, but it's much much more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Technically it's two different matches. It was billed as Hart vs. Lawler so I'm considering the entire segment in my rating. Realistically, I could see people watch it and look at it as nothing more than a pair of **1/2 matches, but it's much much more than that. Fuck it. I'm going to pop in SS 93 right now and watch the entire show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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