G. Badger Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 This WK seems like the point in time where the public may choose to turn a reflective eye upon the NJ juggernaut. Omega/Jericho got a curmudgeon like me to tune in but, what I got was what I expected, unfortunately. Folks get caught in the zeitgeist for awhile then, these things too become mundane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm just baffled. Naito is no young dude, and the route he took just to get to the point he is - from hated babyface to the most over wrestler in the company (maybe the world) and ridiculous merch seller - already took years. I get that Okada also took many years until he became the company ace and it paid off, finally dethroning Tana, but my God, isn't 4~6 years of character build enough? Do we have to retread the same booking decisions? Having good will is great, but there's only so much of it until people start not caring anymore, if the result is going to be the same. Who knows if they will have the time to actually give Omega a title run before he goes to WWE? They can't capitalize on Shibata due to obvious reasons. Who else is left? Ibushi? Cody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 From what I have read about the show, I feel lucky that I got to watch the Japanese feed. Even though my listening skill is still not good enough to keep up with every word of the commentary, I can still get the gist of it. And I have read a lot of complaints about the English commentary... and even worse people complaining about a flat crowd. I was really surprised by how vocal and emotional the crowd came across on the Japanese broadcast. They reacted appropriately to all kinds of small details. Jericho breaking into a genuine smile when the crowd popped for the Lionsault was a really nice moment for me in that match. It's really too bad if (as it seems from what I've read) the English broadcast muted or muffled the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Without spoiling the result (I've managed to avoid finding out who won and lost), was Cody vs. Kota Ibushi worth bothering with? It has ZERO buzz compared to Jericho-Omega and the Naito match. Ibushi looked incredible in the CWC and so did all of his opponents. Does that streak stop cold with Cody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Without spoiling the result (I've managed to avoid finding out who won and lost), was Cody vs. Kota Ibushi worth bothering with? It has ZERO buzz compared to Jericho-Omega and the Naito match. Ibushi looked incredible in the CWC and so did all of his opponents. Does that streak stop cold with Cody? Cody vs Ibushi totally exceeded my expectations. Bad guys doing bad guy things, everyone selling the gradual accumulation of damage, a sick bump or two, a nice escalation of the action. I did not expect that Cody vs Ibushi would be a damn fine pro wrestling match. Well, let me tell you: Cody vs Ibushi was a damn fine pro wrestling match. I love Cody's Dustin Tribute hairdo, and thought Brandi did a great job as a heel manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Cody vs Ibushi well worth watching. I think in general Kevin Kelly is fine to good compared to wrestling announcing in 2018. I don't know if that is a indictment on where we stand in regards to the announcing but he doesn't strike me as being nearly as offensive as many other announcers. I am weary of critiquing the screaming too much since my favorite current announcer (Brad Stutts) is certainly prone to that as well. Kelly's knowledge and passion for the product has no doubt grown since he started. The biggest barrier to entry is that there is still a vibe with Kelly that your dad is watching the new hip wrestling and commenting on it. I don't know who out there could be a competent announcer to really compliment the NJPW product without being a show off announcer like Mauro but that seems pretty integral to me if they want huge expansion. (EDIT: I actually think Alan4L could fit that role) As much as I hate Joey Styles now, he fit the desires of the expanding ECW fanbase to a tee. Speaking of ECW, going through 2000 hasn't been too kind to Callis and he continues to not impress me here. He seems to think that this throwback heel commentator role is a re imagining of Jesse Ventura of old but I find it inconsistent and grating for the most part. Overall, again the WK announcing was nothing that I am going to present as an achievement in pro wrestling announcing but I never wanted to switch to the Japanese feed while watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richeyedwards Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 One idea I have seen floated as to the reason for the new atire for okada is that he is covering up huge knee braces as he is having knee problems. But then again that is just a hunch rather than a proven fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I thought it was a pretty good show. My favorite match was definitely Omega/Jericho. Nothing blowaway to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Not sure if anyone else caught New Year's Dash (probably not if you're in the US but the main matches were at like 10.30am UK time) but they set up some coming feuds including a big angle at the end where Jericho appeared to attack Naito. Clearly a feud between them is the next step, meaning that Jericho will be sticking around for a while longer. The matches were mostly fun tag matches without being anything special but as always, they've sketched out a few months of programmes that should carry them through to the summer. Naito was the most popular man in the building, with his side of the duelling chant drowning out Okada supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Cody vs Ibushi totally exceeded my expectations. Bad guys doing bad guy things, everyone selling the gradual accumulation of damage, a sick bump or two, a nice escalation of the action. I did not expect that Cody vs Ibushi would be a damn fine pro wrestling match. Well, let me tell you: Cody vs Ibushi was a damn fine pro wrestling match. I love Cody's Dustin Tribute hairdo, and thought Brandi did a great job as a heel manager. Cody vs Ibushi well worth watching. I watched it last night before bed. While I didn't consider it a great match like some of you, it was a hell of a lot more fun than I thought it would be - and, shockingly, I credit Cody and Brandi Rhodes with that. They've turned into an absolutely awesome heel pairing. The spot where Brandi faked being knocked out, Kota Ibushi being her knight in shining armor, and Cody taking advantage of the situation and laughing with Brandi afterward - incredible! And Cody's bleached blond hair? I hope he never gets rid of it and wish he had done that ten years ago. If he grows a sleazy brown mustache with it, I'll love him for life. Cody in the WWE felt like an incomplete package. Cody cosplaying as an '80s-style NWA Champion in ROH felt like an incomplete package. This Cody, with Brandi by his side, finally feels like a finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPulis'Cap Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Cody vs Ibushi well worth watching. I think in general Kevin Kelly is fine to good compared to wrestling announcing in 2018. I don't know if that is a indictment on where we stand in regards to the announcing but he doesn't strike me as being nearly as offensive as many other announcers. I am weary of critiquing the screaming too much since my favorite current announcer (Brad Stutts) is certainly prone to that as well. Kelly's knowledge and passion for the product has no doubt grown since he started. The biggest barrier to entry is that there is still a vibe with Kelly that your dad is watching the new hip wrestling and commenting on it. I don't know who out there could be a competent announcer to really compliment the NJPW product without being a show off announcer like Mauro but that seems pretty integral to me if they want huge expansion. (EDIT: I actually think Alan4L could fit that role) As much as I hate Joey Styles now, he fit the desires of the expanding ECW fanbase to a tee. Speaking of ECW, going through 2000 hasn't been too kind to Callis and he continues to not impress me here. He seems to think that this throwback heel commentator role is a re imagining of Jesse Ventura of old but I find it inconsistent and grating for the most part. Overall, again the WK announcing was nothing that I am going to present as an achievement in pro wrestling announcing but I never wanted to switch to the Japanese feed while watching. I've never minded Kevin Kelly either, but I've really enjoyed the commentary on ROH since they teamed up Ian Riccaboni with Colt Cabana. Indeed, given the ROH/NJPW crossover, would he (as in Riccaboni) be a decent fit? I really like him - he's engaging and when commentating on the NJPW crossover shows seems to have a pretty good knowledge of their wrestlers and storylines, while also being younger and feeling more contemporary. He also inserts decent wider sporting/pop culture references without it seeming overly contrived or showing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 From what I have read about the show, I feel lucky that I got to watch the Japanese feed. Even though my listening skill is still not good enough to keep up with every word of the commentary, I can still get the gist of it. And I have read a lot of complaints about the English commentary... and even worse people complaining about a flat crowd. I was really surprised by how vocal and emotional the crowd came across on the Japanese broadcast. They reacted appropriately to all kinds of small details. Jericho breaking into a genuine smile when the crowd popped for the Lionsault was a really nice moment for me in that match. It's really too bad if (as it seems from what I've read) the English broadcast muted or muffled the crowd. Hmm, I watched Jericho/Omega and Okada/Naito with the US commentary and even though it wasn't as good as the Japanese feed, the sound of the crowd was never a problem. I was actually surprised at how loud they were, specially for the main event. Maybe people expected a Sumo Hall atmosphere and weren't used to the dynamic of the Dome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 According to Dave, Gedo's vision for Okada is to make him the modern Antonio Inoki. In other words, not only is he the current top star, but they want to build him up as a legend and promote him strong to the point that fans think of him as the greatest wrestler of all time. That means he almost never loses on the biggest shows, since those tend to be the ones people remember the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 According to Dave, Gedo's vision for Okada is to make him the modern Antonio Inoki. In other words, not only is he the current top star, but they want to build him up as a legend and promote him strong to the point that fans think of him as the greatest wrestler of all time. That means he almost never loses on the biggest shows, since those tend to be the ones people remember the most. Hmm. I wanted Naito to win but can't really argue with trying to create another Inoki/Baba/Rikidozan level figure. Or even 84-88 Hogan as a comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I get the idea, but at 30 years old, he already has the longest reign in NJPW history, is on board to having most defenses, most reigns and also has the longest total days as champ. Losing to Naito at WK would not hamper this "legend" one bit, even more considering his whole route to the top. He is going to stick around for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 That seemed evident given the booking and he has the youth to make it there. Hell, people are already claiming he is one of the greatest of all time so it isn't that far of a stretch to get him to that level in Western hardcores eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Wait... People do the English commentary? I hate Kevin Kelly with a burning passion and just go with the Japanese announcers. I don't know what they are saying but they add to the product for me vs. Kelly who actively ruins it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Inoki had to create a whole new dynamic with him facing people from different combat sports to elevate his legend and sell the idea of New Japan as "King of Sports". I don't see Gedo coming up with that sort of thing for Okada. Okada winning big matches in the biggest stage in spite of people that are more over and are drawing a lot is not something that seems smart to me no matter how much of a legend they want him to become. Dude is young as fuck, if he's already above challengers of the level of Naito (kayfabe and popularity wise) then New Japan is gonna end up with the same problem as WWE in then near future, were they gonna end up depending on just 1 guy to be a real difference maker because no one will be perceived at his level. Naito is 35 and is the safest bet possible to keep having good box office results as champ. If Gedo wants Okada to reach "Inoki level" then he needs more than just be a dominant champ - and for the past 8 years he hasn't shown he can book anything compelling beyond title matches and reigns - if there was an opportunity to keep him away from the belt a little without hurting their bottom line AND at least try to be creative give him new, interesting stuff to do to keep growing his legend, then WK 12 was the opportunity, not a Sumo Hall show in the middle of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 To me the easy move is giving the belt to Naito for a year or two and letting him ride this wave of momentum. But, and I hate to use this crutch, while they continue this five-year streak of business increasing every year in many areas, including the Dome show this year doing 9k more paid than last year, I can't kill Gedo until one of his moves proves to be a real mistake. And they came up with a hot clever way to keep Naito strong on the 1/5 show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Thought this was a great show. Didn't quite reach the peaks of last year's, but much more consistent. Thought Ibushi-Cody, Goto-Suzuki, the Junior Four-Way, Jericho-Kenny, and Naito-Okada were the best matches. Really bummed that Naito didn't win. Okada is my favorite wrestler, but they've done pretty much all they can with his current reign besides beat Tanahashi's title defense record (which is what I'm sensing the endgame is here). And this was Naito's time. He's at the peak of his popularity and really should get the most credit for drawing this kind of crowd to the dome. Willing to take a wait-and-see approach to this but I'm skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Is it just me or is modern wrestling way too obsessed with statistics and who holds such and such a record title reign? I think it can make for an interesting story if done right but for too often it's brought up months out from the end point and so the time in-between seems like a trudge towards the inevitable. I don't think I've ever seen it done where someone is hyped up to break a record and they actually fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Wrestling has kind of always been like that, hell the build for WM 3 started off by Hogan getting an award for having such a long title reign. Guys were always pushed as X-time champs to build credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Ok, screw cherry picking, as it may be the only NJ show I watch all year. Roppongi 3K vs Young Bucks - Can anyone enlight me on Roppongi 3K ? Anyway, this was an excellent opener. When the Bucks want to work classic heel and less meta-bullshit, they are fucking good. Did Nick (actually Matt) hurt himself on that tope or was he selling his back masterfully ? The Gauntlet match had its moments, especially at the beginning with War Machine, whom I only saw once or twice before. Love those guys. The Fuyuki-gun team was kinda atrocious though. I guess Juice still competes in "worst look possible" contest or something, not a fan of his gimmicky punch sequence either. Ishii still looks godlike. The tongan guys are kinda good, I wonder if WWE would pair them up against the Usos. Decent stuff overall. CODY vs Ibushi - When did Cody get a personnality transplant ? I never saw shit in him before, and here he is, sporting a Dustin hairdu, with his hot-as-fuck valet/wife, playing old-school bastard heel-with-workrate, looking stylish doing so. Of course Ibushi still looks like one of the best worker in the world, which can only help, but Cody was tons of fun here and the use of Brandi (got a big kick at her being called Rhodes, nice fuck-you to the WWE) was excellent, as the heel valet stuff is kind of a lost art these days. Really liked this a lot. Kudos to Cody for "finding himself" ( ). Lance Archer & BDS Jr. vs EVIL & Sanada - Wow, it's odd to switch from Lance Hoyt in 2008 to Lance Archer in 2017. Guy looks good and seems to have improved quite a bit. Yeah, DBS really looks like his dad sometimes. Two big gaijins mofos beating up people, having the Ingobernables working from underneath, that works with me. Tons of bomb throwing. Very good match. Suzuki vs Goto - I like all those changes of paces and style a lot, it makes the show flow really well. Holy fuck, stiffness, psychology and drama. Loved the hell out of this. Suzuki is truly a special kind of worker in the big match context. Super fun match again. Making me care about Goto is a feat too. The four way junior match was fun in a complete clusterfucky way. Scurl's entrance was boss, but his antics scream a little bit heeling-cosplay to me. Hiromu's airbrush pants are wonderful, as is pretty much everything he does. The story is Ospreay I guess. Kinda fun because of everything he can do physically, but he overdoes everything and really isn't much more than a crazy spot worker. He's like RVD mixed with Lance Storm circa 96. He looks like a douchebag too. Fun, but if I'm honest, probably the worst match thus far. Super fun show until that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 I feel like 10 years from now we're going to hold up the Jericho/Omega match as a definitive heel performance for Chris Jericho. Him calling Chono fuckface was hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Looks like SANADA is going to be Okada's next challenger. He'll get an opportunity in return for giving Okada a shot at the tag titles with Goto as his partner. That photoshopped picture of HHH holding every championship belt in WWE might actually become a reality in New Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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