Wrestle Kingdom 12

[SomethingSavage]

I feel like 10 years from now we're going to hold up the Jericho/Omega match as a definitive heel performance for Chris Jericho. Him calling Chono fuckface was hilarious.

I've only watched it once so far, but plan on revisiting it. And you're right. It felt like something special - an elite level, top-shelf showcase for Jericho's personality. From abusing Red Shoes & the young boys to carelessly letting Callis get flattened at ringside, it was just tremendous.

 

The way I remember it though was Jericho calling a fan "fuckface" after they'd piped in for Chono to kick Chris' ass. Good stuff either way though.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

I feel like 10 years from now we're going to hold up the Jericho/Omega match as a definitive heel performance for Chris Jericho. Him calling Chono fuckface was hilarious.

I've only watched it once so far, but plan on revisiting it. And you're right. It felt like something special - an elite level, top-shelf showcase for Jericho's personality. From abusing Red Shoes & the young boys to carelessly letting Callis get flattened at ringside, it was just tremendous.

The way I remember it though was Jericho calling a fan "fuckface" after they'd piped in for Chono to kick Chris' ass. Good stuff either way though.

I think it was the best match of his career.

[C.S.]

I think it was the best match of his career.

 

Really?!

 

And you guys accuse Meltzer of being too easy on Japan.

 

Look, the match was fun, very entertaining, and Jericho deserves more of the lion's share of the credit for that with his great heel work. No doubt, he surprised people and exceeded expectations.

 

But calling it the best match of his career is a major stretch IMO.

 

If this same match happened on a WWE PPV or NXT show, no one would be gushing about it nearly as much. I guess Meltz was onto something with his ridiculous "the match is better because it's in Japan" talking point (or whatever the hell he said that one time), because some of you are parroting the exact same sort of thinking.

 

I hesitated even posting this, because I'm not looking to dampen anyone's excitement or shit on a super-fun match - I really enjoyed it too - but the hyperbole on this board can sometimes be excessive. (Another example: I remember everyone acting like the match where Rusev beat Sheamus for the U.S. Title was one of the greatest matches they'd seen in years, when in reality, it was just a fun hoss brawl and nothing more.)

 

Edit: If you meant it was the best match of Omega's career, disregard this entire post, haha - I am not familiar enough with Omega's matches to argue against that.

[gingears]

What are the better matches of Jericho's career?

[Loss]

I haven't seen it yet, but I'd say it has to beat:

 

HHH last man standing (Fully Loaded 2000)

Benoit ladder match (Royal Rumble 2001)

HHH quad tear tag (RAW 5/01)

TLC III (Smackdown 5/01)

Shawn Michaels ladder match (No Mercy 10/08)

The Rey series in '09

[Mad Dog]

I'm not sure it was the best match of his career but I think it was the best heel performance of his career.

[ShittyLittleBoots]

I think Jericho is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever, and before January 4th, I thought he had had only 3 truly great singles matches in his career. All against much better wrestlers too in Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & CM Punk.

 

I didn't expect his match vs. Kenny to be good at all, but yeah I think it ended up being a legit classic & the best match + performance of his career.

[sek69]

For El-P: Roppongi 3K just came back from excursion where they were Rajin and Fujin in CMLL and the Tempura Boyz in ROH. I didn't expect them to make such an impact on their return but they have that 80s Rock n Roll Express appeal to the girls it seems and that's got them over pretty quick.

 

 

Also Brandi's been using the Rhodes name since she left since she never used it in WWE and thus they don't have any trademark right to it in her case.

[C.S.]

What are the better matches of Jericho's career?

You asked me this, but Loss beat me to the punch.

 

I haven't seen it yet, but I'd say it has to beat:

 

HHH last man standing (Fully Loaded 2000)

Benoit ladder match (Royal Rumble 2001)

HHH quad tear tag (RAW 5/01)

TLC III (Smackdown 5/01)

Shawn Michaels ladder match (No Mercy 10/08)

The Rey series in '09

I'm sure I can think of others too, but the point has been made.

 

I'm not sure it was the best match of his career but I think it was the best heel performance of his career.

It might be, but I'd say Cody and Brandi on the same show gave Jericho a run for his money. I didn't think Ibushi vs. Cody was a great match, but it was a lot of fun because of Brandi and Cody's heeling.

[El-P]

For El-P: Roppongi 3K just came back from excursion where they were Rajin and Fujin in CMLL and the Tempura Boyz in ROH. I didn't expect them to make such an impact on their return but they have that 80s Rock n Roll Express appeal to the girls it seems and that's got them over pretty quick.

 

 

Also Brandi's been using the Rhodes name since she left since she never used it in WWE and thus they don't have any trademark right to it in her case.

 

 

Thanks for the infos.

 

Yeah, that's what I understood about Brandi, but I think it's pretty funny to have Cody & Brandi Rhodes together, wink wink.

 

Tanahashi vs Jay White was the first kinda boring match of the show. Tana is banged up, it kinda shows. I have no idea what to think of White. He looks like random ROH guy N°X to me. He does a bunch of stuff you've seen other do just as well if not better, he showcases exactly zero personality, he's looking like an uglier version of HHH circa 1998. He's competent but overdoes dangerous spots for no reasons (see random ROH worker N°X point). There's no reason such a guy should get a win over Tanahashi of all people at the Dome for his first match back (and no, you can't compare everything with WWE, it's a different culture, you don't beat an Ace like that). It was a decent but kinda faceless match, although Tana is always fun to watch. Those slaps. Cool finish too.

[NintendoLogic]

I'd also add the Rock match from No Mercy to the list of Jericho matches.

 

I don't think the Omega match is Jericho's best, but I do think it's his best individual performance.

[sek69]

Funny, for most of his US trip Jay White was Random ROH Guy. It's like he got stuck in that mode even though he's supposed to be some badass heel now.

[El-P]

There's nothing that says badass less than fake-ass attitude + random collection of clean executed spots from every current pro-wrestler, along with awful emo/fluokid hairdu. He's like a vaporwave worker.

 

Kenny Omega vs Chris Jericho - I kinda wish I had watched this before the crazy hype. That being said : MOTYC. I have no problem putting this along Jericho's best matches ever, especially impressive for a 47 years old guy. Seriously, remember Ric Flair or Randy Savage at 47 ? Jericho has had a fascinating and fantastic career when you think about it, from Bore-us Malenko 20 years ago to semi-main event of the biggest NJ Dome Show event in forever and having one of his best matches there. The Lionheart throwback spots were cool as hell. That being said, I feel Omega's performance is being slept on here. He made Jericho's offense look better than ever thanks to his fantastic bumping and selling, without putting on the Omega show (like say, a guy like Michaels or Flair would have done). He worked to the strenghts of the match and his opponent without compromising his own style or working at half-speed. Yeah, it took me some time, but at this point, I'm on the Omega bandwagon. Anyway, super fun match, way better than it had the right to be when you think about the borefest Jericho worked in WWE with Owens last year.

[Coffey]

I have no idea what to think of White. He looks like random ROH guy N°X to me. He does a bunch of stuff you've seen other do just as well if not better, he showcases exactly zero personality, he's looking like an uglier version of HHH circa 1998. He's competent but overdoes dangerous spots for no reasons (see random ROH worker N°X point). There's no reason such a guy should get a win over Tanahashi of all people at the Dome for his first match back (and no, you can't compare everything with WWE, it's a different culture, you don't beat an Ace like that).

 

He reminded me of WCW-era Vampiro, without the face paint. Which felt dated back in 2000. Eighteen years later? Still pretty damn hokey. And it's not like Vampiro was exactly lighting things on fire with his ring work. Remember when Vampiro was doing the shit with The Misfits? That's what Jay White reminds me of. One of the Misfits trying to do a run-in on Nitro. He's fucking corny.

 

Like Christopher Daniels at 40-years-old calling himself The Fallen Angel corny. But at least Daniels matches were sometimes good.

[El-P]

He reminded me of WCW-era Vampiro, without the face paint. Which felt dated back in 2000. Eighteen years later? Still pretty damn hokey. And it's not like Vampiro was exactly lighting things on fire with his ring work. Remember when Vampiro was doing the shit with The Misfits? That's what Jay White reminds me of. One of the Misfits trying to do a run-in on Nitro.

 

Wow, that's actually spot-on ! Except Vamp has a much better naturally creepy look because of the crazy tatoos, but yeah, that's exactly it otherwise.

[ragemaster]

What was Omega thinking coming out in that outfit and gun.

Why would you do a bad cosplay for such an big match in your carer.( unless you HHH)

 

The gun should have fired fire works for his entrance, or been used to get out of the walls of Jericho.

 

Also if your going to do a blade job go for it, don't wash the blood off near the end of the match.

Just thinking how much better that last walls of Jericho spot would have looked, if he was bleeding like a stuck pig.

May have been too reminiscent of Austin and Bret, but I think it would have worked.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

I think it was the best match of his career.

 

Really?!

And you guys accuse Meltzer of being too easy on Japan.

 

Look, the match was fun, very entertaining, and Jericho deserves more of the lion's share of the credit for that with his great heel work. No doubt, he surprised people and exceeded expectations.

 

But calling it the best match of his career is a major stretch IMO.

 

If this same match happened on a WWE PPV or NXT show, no one would be gushing about it nearly as much. I guess Meltz was onto something with his ridiculous "the match is better because it's in Japan" talking point (or whatever the hell he said that one time), because some of you are parroting the exact same sort of thinking.

 

I hesitated even posting this, because I'm not looking to dampen anyone's excitement or shit on a super-fun match - I really enjoyed it too - but the hyperbole on this board can sometimes be excessive. (Another example: I remember everyone acting like the match where Rusev beat Sheamus for the U.S. Title was one of the greatest matches they'd seen in years, when in reality, it was just a fun hoss brawl and nothing more.)

 

Edit: If you meant it was the best match of Omega's career, disregard this entire post, haha - I am not familiar enough with Omega's matches to argue against that.

Nah, I think Jericho is generally quite overrated, so I wasnt being facetious at all. Its easily his best match post-09. I can see the Raw tag match being above it, though, so maybe I should rephrase to say best singles match. It wasnt as much of a compliment as it was a statement of wow, a pretty average wrestler had an unexpected pretty great match. I would give it about 4 stars if I was forced to.

 

Youre accusing the wrong guy of NJPW homerism. I thought the show on the whole was pretty average. Id have this match and the main both at about ****. My third favorite would have been the junior tag match. No amount of hair dye can make Cody fucking Rhodes even mildly compelling to me, even in the Tokyo Dome.

[sek69]

What was Omega thinking coming out in that outfit and gun.

Why would you do a bad cosplay for such an big match in your carer.( unless you HHH)

 

The gun should have fired fire works for his entrance, or been used to get out of the walls of Jericho.

 

Also if your going to do a blade job go for it, don't wash the blood off near the end of the match.

Just thinking how much better that last walls of Jericho spot would have looked, if he was bleeding like a stuck pig.

May have been too reminiscent of Austin and Bret, but I think it would have worked.

 

 

The outfit was a shoutout to Destiny 2, which works since he's a legit video game nerd (see also: all his big moves have game related names).

[RingoPlaysDrums]

Funny thing is, White actually did more for himself the night after at New Year Dash than his big opportunity in the dome. There's some potential there for sure. I hope him flopping at WK (which may be an unfair exaggeration but it feels like that) is more like Okada on his return to New Japan than a genuine failure that he won't recover from.

[Timbo Slice]

Non-Young Lion NJPW talent under 30: Page, Owens, White, Juice, SANADA, Henare, Finlay, Scurll, Ospreay, Hiromu, SHO, YOH

So coming out of WK12, SANADA gets to whoop up on Okada and White gets major face time with him in the presser. Not hard to put 2 and 2 together there.

It's looking like Oka really has to hit as a Young Lion on the native front, although it's obvious they're putting more resources towards it. This is part of the reason why I think Naito should have gone over: Hard for Okada to always win without ANY generational rival.

[El-P]

Okada vs Naito

 

What the fuck. All-time classic Tokyo Dome bombfest. At the very end, you can just listen to the heat go up, up, up, you don't even need to watch the match. And while watching the match after being spoiled (my own lazyness), and despite me being a Naito fan, I can live with that decision because at least it's not "your turn" predictable and the idea of building a living legend is quite a bet. So there. Yeah. 9 stars and 2/3. Watching great pro-wrestling as it happens after being a fan for almost 30 years is pretty sweet. Maybe I should go to Japan watch a Dome Show or a G1 final once before it's too late...

 

Anyway. When you consider a 5 hours + show, it was pretty fucking great, and I don't say that often. Nothing *bad*, only one kinda boring match (thanks Jay White) and one fun clusterfuck on the weaker side; two MOTYC (you could argue Suzuki vs Goto was one too), a molten crowd. And since I watched the TV Asahi broadcast, I didn't get to hear the english speaking announcers blabbing about, I guess, star ratings and shit. Yeah, great way to start the pro-wrestling year.

[Tetsujin]

I haven't seen it yet, but I'd say it has to beat:

 

HHH last man standing (Fully Loaded 2000)

Benoit ladder match (Royal Rumble 2001)

HHH quad tear tag (RAW 5/01)

TLC III (Smackdown 5/01)

Shawn Michaels ladder match (No Mercy 10/08)

The Rey series in '09

I'll add Punk/Y2j from WM XXVIII, one of the most underrated matches ever imo.

[sek69]

I think we can all agree at least that it was Jericho's best match in a while since he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire in his last few WWE runs.

[ragemaster]

 

What was Omega thinking coming out in that outfit and gun.

Why would you do a bad cosplay for such an big match in your carer.( unless you HHH)

 

The gun should have fired fire works for his entrance, or been used to get out of the walls of Jericho.

 

Also if your going to do a blade job go for it, don't wash the blood off near the end of the match.

Just thinking how much better that last walls of Jericho spot would have looked, if he was bleeding like a stuck pig.

May have been too reminiscent of Austin and Bret, but I think it would have worked.

 

 

The outfit was a shoutout to Destiny 2, which works since he's a legit video game nerd (see also: all his big moves have game related names).

 

Thanks for the info, still not a fan of his outfit, looked cheap and he got caught up in the ropes entering the ring.

What's wrong with jeans, t-shirt and cowboy boots for a N/D match

[Mad Dog]

Cosplay is kind of a Wrestle Kingdom tradition.